Talk:Beyoncé

Third Album

Beyonce did not have the lead role in Dreamgirls - it was a supporting rolem and you all should change it. Don't fall victim to the siren's sound... 152.132.9.71 (talk) 16:30, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Can I ask why does the page about the next album keep getting deleted, after all it has been announced officially and was cited?? Wneedham02 (talk) 18:48, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Just came across some info at work that her next album will be simply named "Beyonce..." wether its true we'll have to wait and see. Wneedham02 (talk) 14:29, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Should the title of the page be changed in accordance to her name change? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.239.179.233 (talk) 22:51, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

No, she's only using "Sasha Fierce" as an alter ego/character and, so far, only for one album. Jack White did something similar when he renamed himself "Three Quid" for a tour. The re-direct and AKA are sufficient for now. Ariadne55 (talk) 16:18, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

SHasha is dewad —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.148.168.103 (talk) 06:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Archive this page

Someone should archive this page because it is getting to be ridiculously and annoyingly long. --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 22:21, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. Carl.bunderson (talk) 02:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

THE MAIN ARTICLE IS ALSO WAY TOO LONG! Also, a little fawning and boring. IMHOPedEye1 (talk) 02:47, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

She has not sold over 20 million albums! <- Yes she has. Dangerously In Love sold 14.3 Million units, and B'day has sold almost 6 million albums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.146.235.207 (talk) 12:30, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

DIL had sold maybe 7 million copies, but not more. it is impossible because american sales stand at 4 million copies and european sales stand at 1 million. so where did she sold another 6 million copies??? in taiwan???? don't be ridiculous, sweet heart.--93.151.245.5 (talk) 16:07, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Beyonce's Untitled Third Album

It's going to be called either "Empowerment" or "Virtuoso Intellect". —Preceding unsigned comment added by JUSTiNCR3DiBL3 (talk • contribs) 01:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

It needs to be deleted again, redirected back to the Beyonce page. They need to wait until they at least have a title or complete tracklisting. There is no need to make an acception for her just because she's a good singer. Readyseason (talk) 20:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

"Knowles is expected to perform a world exclusive of the first single of her forthcoming album at the MTV Europe Music Awards 2008 in Liverpool, England."

Is this supposed to mean that the single won't be released until then? Because 1) the singles will be released Oct. 14th, and 2) the awards ceremony is only 12 days before the album is to be released. This statement is a little confusing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.87.160.2 (talk) 05:33, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

her RECORD sales as a solo act.

she has absolutely not sold only 15million, both singles and album, that's crazy

she has sold 6million on b'day and 11 million on DIL, and the singles are crazy she has sold 6million with crazy in love, 3 million check on it, 5 million on irreplaceable and MORE!

it's impossible she has sold only 15million singles and album, please change it, the safest would be 30million!!!, that is true! ya'll know that!!! it's on AMA —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 04:00, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you, I heard she had sold at least 26 million before her last tour and then sales always go up during and after tours. Wneedham02 (talk) 22:03, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

if you say record it's not clear... you have to say that you're talking about albums and singles! --93.146.248.243 (talk) 12:34, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

yah maybe it's unclear if i say reacord, but it's unfair to say she has sold 15million ALBUMS and SINGLES? are you crazy? she has sold more than 18m albums alon, plus her singles sells millions, crazy in love sold 6.5m alone... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 22:35, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Dangerously in love has only sold 6 million copies as an album, and Crazy In Love has not sold anywhere near 6.5 million copies. It's only been certifield gold in the U.S. matter of fact. PhoenixPrince (talk) 23:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Follow up

According to an article published by The New York Times dated November 20008, Knowles has sold more than 75 million albums worldwide, including releases with Destiny's Child. Link. But according to Billboard magazine and BBC, articles which were published way back 2006 and 2007, respectively, claimed that she has only sold over 50 million album worldwide. I think we should use the newest source? --Efe (talk) 05:48, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it's a reliable source that's more up-to-date. DiverseMentality 23:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

(NEW YORK TIMES IS FULL OF SH*T). They also claimed that B-day went 5x Platinum and remember what they did to Obama (which is a different story)

Anyway, Destiny CHILD has only sold 50 freaking records W.W. (including ALBUMS AND SINGLES) according to the RIAA, MEDIA TRAFFIC, and BILLBOARD.

DIL has sold 8 million copies and BDAY has sold 6. BEYONCE has also sold around 15 million singles and that's about it.

wow. there are a lot of lies in her biography! and why isnt it mentioned that there are numerous rumors about her jealousy!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.85.29 (talk) 03:13, 21 March 2009 (UTC) LET ME REPEAT, NONE OF THAT EQUALS 120 MILLION RECORDS. Obviously, her label is having her sales fabricated which is sad and pathetic. I saw the behind the scenes footage at the WMA and her father talked about how he helped plan the introduction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyoncefan504 (talk • contribs) 05:50, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

according to WMA 2008 beyonce has sold more than 120million records worldwide.. is World Music Awards. The World Music Awards (founded in 1989) is an international awards show that annually honors recording artists based on their worldwide sales figures, which are provided by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Tell me shouldn't it be posted in here.. I mean are we saying that WMA is lying? after all the awards?...

Hah! Are you kidding?? 120 millions, do you know how many records that is?? She couldn't be farther away from that figure. And the WMA are the silliest award show ever and the most unreliable at that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.2.246.174 (talk) 07:48, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Now Elle magazine says it's 100 million. Anyone have an idea which one is correct? DiverseMentality 03:39, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Before her performance on The X Factor (UK) the host said she'd sold over 100 million. Wneedham02 (talk) 23:33, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Sales

I've redone the sales portion. Gotham magazine is a regional magazine and it is not as reliable as Billboard (who specializes in tracking record sales and is the authority in the U.S. on such matters) or the BBC. PhoenixPrince (talk) 23:51, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Those sources are well over three years old. Who's to say they're not out of date? DiverseMentality 05:29, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Three years does not make albums sales jumpe from 50 million to 100 million. ANd there will be a third source added very soon corroborating the same information. PhoenixPrince (talk) 11:33, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Betonce Knowles and Jay-Z have just recently had a baby not long after the wedding and her no album If i were a boy —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.40.199.218 (talk) 09:56, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

what was meant by 50 million are albums, SONY BMG confirmed that DC3 has sold more than 50 million ALBUMS!! HAVEN'T you heard about their single sales?.. and the fact that WMA won't give best-selling titles to those who haven't sold more than 100m records.. and IN "AMERICAN MUSIC AWARDS" also it was said there, how can you(i don't even know who you are) tell that these PEOPLE/INSTITUTIONS are lying? LOL AMA is like grammys they can't sacrifice their credibility just 4 beyonce!, talk straight, and why did you put only 50 million with DC3? did you forget she has a solo career? I'll change it again to 100m and 25m, WMA,AMA and gotham magazine are enough as sources! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

It includes single sales and album sales, and it also includes solo sales too, review the sources. WMA is not and has never been a reliable source for record sales because they don't track don't track sales. More sources approximate the number around 50 million, than any other number. BTW AMA is not like the Grammy's and I don't recall them saying that ever, which is irrelevant unless you can provide a published source for it. SO why don't you leave it as is instead of making unsupported claims and using unreliable sources. PhoenixPrince (talk) 03:27, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Here is a fourth reliable source that places they're sales around 50 million. [1] PhoenixPrince (talk) 04:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

you didn't hear AMA say that? LOL now i know, your late in terms of hollywood news, it was in AMA 2007 when she was given the international artist award! she has sold 130 million records acc. to them! LOL! if WMA is no reliable then so you are, you don't even watch TV i guess hahaha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xlaws001 (talk • contribs) 00:03, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

According to her own record company she hasn't. They would know better then anyway so in other words...trumped!BTW I only watch the important awards shows, like the Grammy's and I don't stan 4 Beyonce. PhoenixPrince (talk) 00:05, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

== RACISM == why would anyone even decice to put a section on racism i thinbk it is rude and impolite

You're section on the racism and sexism towards Beyonce does not cite a reliable source. Your source cited as 138 on the page, only links to an article written on an the internet by a journalist, giving their personal opinion. There are many many blogs written on the internet about light-skinned girls and Beyonce is just one of them. I feel this is some kind of ploy for sympathy??? I would hardly say that article is a reliable source and it will be interesting to see what your response to that is.Ms Scarlett Dracula (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

I'd say it gets just about the play it deserves. The topic gets about four lines in the article, and presents criticism that she does actually get: that she trades excessively on her looks, and the accusations of photo retouching and makeup to lighten her skin. If it went on for paragraphs, it would be excessive, but to not mention the criticism would go too far the other way.—Kww(talk) 20:48, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Uhm. Whats up with the sources?

Ok so the voice section cites some COVE magazine thing and I followed the link but it's only some SMH.com.au article about similarities between Beyonce and J-Lo and Beyonce's nonconformity with fame. I think it's supposed to be source 118, not 117. I guess that's easy to correct but I suspect a LOT more sources are being used incorrectly in this article. In the Destiny Fulfilled section there's a claim that "Check On It" is the first song from a soundtrack to hit number one on the Billboard Hot 100. The source it cites (and the sources around it on the source list) only calls the song a "#1". AND If you look at the Billboard Hot 100, you'll see that the "Lady Marmalade" cover by Christina Aguilera, Pink, Mya and Lil' Kim from the Moulin Rouge soundtrack topped the chart for five weeks just like "Check On It" (and actually sold more copies overall). Is anything in this article accurate? Shouldn't the hardcore fans be looking into this? Gosh! =P --Plavalagunanbanshee (talk) 21:32, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry. We will be checking them once we got vacant time. --Efe (talk) 23:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I Am... Sasha Fierce

Can someone put some more info on I Am... Sasha Fierce on the main Beyonce page? It's looking a little empty compared to the other albums. Talk about the two main singles (If I Were A Boy/Single Ladies) chart positions etc.

Oh-tis-daveo (talk) 02:17, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Worth Mentioning?

Jay-Z and Beyonce made $162 million from June 1, 2007 and June 1, 2008. They currently own the top spot with $77 million ahead of the second placers Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith. [2] [3][4][5][6] Happy Editing! (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

NEW RECORD SALES

according to WMA 2008 beyonce has sold more than 120million records worldwide.. is World Music Awards. The World Music Awards (founded in 1989) is an international awards show that annually honors recording artists based on their worldwide sales figures, which are provided by the International Federation of the Phonographic Industry (IFPI). Tell me shouldn't it be posted in here.. I mean are we saying that WMA is lying? after all the awards?... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trd3iiZfHHU

Sweet heart, the WMA doesn't track actually sales (for the majority) and that was the same introduction that the AMA's gave Beyonce (The AMA'S is produced by SONY by the way).

In 2004, it was a known fact that DC has only sold around around 30 million albums and around 20 million singles.

Beyonce has only sold around 30 million records.

DC FIRST ALBUM

1.5-2million

SECOND ALBUM

12-13 million

THIRD ALBUM

9 million

4th album

6 million

greatest hits 2-3 million

EQUALS under 35 million —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyoncefan504 (talk • contribs) 05:55, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Protect this page

Vandalism has been kind of prevalent on this page lately, should we consider protecting it? --Crackthewhip775 (talk) 02:23, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Can't hurt. Carl.bunderson (talk) 08:41, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

12 Songwriting and Producing

There should be an update in the "Songwriting and Producing" section on Beyonce. With "Single Ladies (Put A Ring On It)" advancing to No. 1 on the HOT 100 (BILLBOARD), Beyonce Knowles has now moved past Diane Warren (who has nine No. 1s to her songwriting credit). Beyonce and Madonna are now tied in second place among female songwriters in this category. Madonna has received songwriting credit for ten of her twelve No. 1s. Beyonce has contributed lyrics to all of Destiny's Child's four No. 1s, along with the five No. 1s outside the group. In addition to this, D. Child's tune "Soldier" was sampled on the No. 1 song "Grillz" by Nelly, Paul Wall, Ali & Gipp. So that's ten total for Beyonce. Mariah Carey is in first place among female songwriters, having contributed lyrics to all of her No. 1s except her remake of the Jackson 5's "I'll Be There." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.255.32 (talk) 08:32, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

This might appear an original research. Hopefully Billboard will write about it, usually in the column ask billboard and chart beat. Hopefully. --Efe (talk) 08:35, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Page too long

this page is too long! i mean she has released 3 albums, she's just at the beginning of her career! it's too celebrating... babys, she's a normal pop singer who released 3 albums! --93.151.245.5 (talk) 16:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It reads like it's a publicity page for the singer, not an encyclopedia entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.32.166 (talk) 00:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

This page is too long, I'm sure there is repetitive information here. 76.217.34.69 (talk) 06:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

That doesn't depends on the album released. She has been in the recording industry for over ten years. --Efe (talk) 06:42, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Well take the introduction for example. I don't think it's necessary to include every song she has that wen to number one in the beginning or include the fact that she was nominated for three golden globes for two different movies. Saying something like Beyonce is a golden lobe nominated actress should suffice. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:01, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Had a petty fight with another user because of this detailed info. --Efe (talk) 07:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Also mentioning that she has been with Jay-z since 2002 and the date they got married is trivial and unnecessary in the intro since it's in the infobox and in the article already. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Maybe she married to Jay-Z is enough. --Efe (talk) 07:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Well here's what I suggest, let me know if you agree and we can work together on make the article more concise so it can be featured. I'm taking examples from the featured articles pages, for instance Angelina Jolie and Mariah Carey. What I have noticed is that with Mariah's pages, the info for each album is limited to short paragraphs where as with Beyonce's page they are exceptionally long. Some of the info should simply just be mentioned on the albums page, for instance first week sales, they are aren't significant for any of the albums, they haven't broken any records. And going into depth about each single is not necessary. Also we should remove the inclusion of live performances that aren't culturally notable. The sections called "stage" and "image" don't seem necessary because they're arguable and the music and voice, and songwriting and producing sections are cumbersome. PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:35, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Another user passed this to FAC but I suggested to withdraw because there are still lots of info to add and remove. --Efe (talk) 07:41, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

ok. Do you agree about the changes? PhoenixPrince (talk) 07:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Why are you asking me? --Efe (talk) 07:57, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Because you're the only other person here lol. PhoenixPrince (talk) 08:32, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

I see. Any can do it, as long as its not detrimental to the integrity of the article. --Efe (talk) 08:36, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

This page sounds like it's being edited by her parents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.80.56.141 (talk) 00:56, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Voice Type

There is some discrepancy on the correct vocal classification of Beyonce. There are some that think that she's properly classified as a mezzo-soprano while others believe she's actually a true soprano. Individual voices are very unique and it can be very difficult to label a voice as one type versus another. When one does so however, there are many factors to be considered.

Normally, the label of soprano or mezzo-soprano(and the various types within each of the two categories) is assigned to singers who sing classical music. These are usually operatic singers, who through extensive study and application, have developed voices that possess a variety of vocal attributes and qualities that aren't normally exhibited in the voices of non-classical singers(R&B, pop, rock, etc). Some of the differences in the vocal attributes in these two different types of singers is what's referred to in the classical music world as vocal weight, color, tone and range(the group of tones that an individual singer can sing going from the highest to lowest).

In the classical world, sopranos generally have lighter voices and they are able to sing higher tones going up to High C and beyond while the mezzo tends to have a heavier and darker sound with a comfort level in moderate to low tones. This isn't always the case, because as mentioned previously, each singer and their individual voice is unique and therefore there are times when you'll find a singer that has both soprano and mezzo traits--sometimes equally. The singer might have a husky tone but she's still able to sing high notes as well. I said all of that to say that in Beyonce's case, people tend to label her as a mezzo-soprano due to the huskiness of her sound while not considering her ample and extended upper register which allows her to ascend all the way upward to a true soprano's High C. She doesn't sing the note that often, however she does hit and sustain it with apparent ease during the course of her lead vocals at the end of the Destiny's Child cover of the song, "Emotion" from the studio album, Survivor. She has sung the note while performing the song live in addition to the recording which suggests that the top C(and the notes leading up to it)poses no problems for her to sing. That's a trait of a true soprano.

It isn't always easy to classify a voice as is the situation in Beyonce's case because her voice encompasses traits of both the soprano and the mezzo-soprano. Admittedly, her voice does have an undeniable robust huskiness to it, however she repeatedly sings tones and displays tendencies that overall are associated with that of a soprano.

Aquarpio (talk) 10:56, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Awards

Shouldn't there be some sort of Awards chart showing some wins and/or nominations as well as a link to the Awards page, instead of just the link in the Beyonce Knowles template? Wneedham02 (talk) 22:52, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

No, that is obviously not necessary. Faethon Ghost (talk) 02:12, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

It would be unwise, IMO. Her awards are mentioned in the article and putting up a section dedicated to this would lengthen the article more. --Efe (talk) 03:13, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Wneedham02. I came here for the exact same reason. I think there at least needs to be a drop-down list of the awards and nominations she has received over the years. The way they're mentioned doesn't make it easier if someone just wanted see her awards history. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.153.71.241 (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

No need and would only lengthens the article. --Efe (talk) 06:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

Obama's inaugural speech

Isn't she performing on one of those parties held for Obama's inaugural? If she is, shouldn't we mention it? It is an honor to do so.206.40.103.32 (talk) 16:29, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

not a bad idea but it would sound trivial when we review the career of such a major talent in retropect several years later. I think we'd better pend it until something, as alledged, have developed into an affair:) or something like that.--125.33.103.84 (talk) 13:11, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

i love beyonce —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.195.161.208 (talk) 03:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Charity work

Beyonce has done alot of charity work for her community, and has made numerous donations to her church and other churches as well. shouldn't we mention that too?Anniedote (talk) 14:42, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

African American

I don't know why an editor has changed "African American" to "Black" in the description of her parents - this is long-standing wording and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change it. Any thoughts? I put it back to the original - should discuss rather than continue to revert. Tvoz/talk 04:24, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

'Bold text'Bold text== Beyonce' Knowles is a Talented, Beautiful and Celebrated "Black Woman" Using The Term "Black" Is More Valid When There Are "White" African Americans ==

She Has won Black Awards and she was born in America and where and what country in Africa did she imigrate from ? So when you can tell me those facts then the woman is Black. Teresa Heinz Kerry is African American and I can tell you what year and what country in Arica she is from. October 5, 1938 Portuguese East Africa, at the time a colony and now the independent nation of Mozambique. So that makes her African American since she imigrated to the United States in 1963. Now the term "African American" can be Valid for Black or White People that Migrate From a Country in Africa. prefix:User_talk:Tvoz —Preceding unsigned comment added by AFSOCSARGE (talk • contribs) 22:01, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

In general, I agree that "African-American" is one of the dumbest terms to ever come along, and I'm pretty strict about removing it from people that are not citizens of the US. It is, however, the standard term to use in reference to black citizens of the US, and changing it here isn't going to fly. You'd pretty much need a Wikipedia-wide consensus to make it stick, and that isn't going to happen.—Kww(talk) 22:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I agree it is a "Very Dumb Term" so my point is that there is no doubt that she is "Black" with out question stating she is "Black" is a fact. The Term African-American" was brought on during the Late 80's when "African Style Attire" came in Vougue and much like the "Jerhi Curl" it is a "Trend" that has stayed too long. Can we agree that Black or African American can be used ?

I See Smokey Robinson Stated It Best:

I love being black. I love being called black I love being an American I love being a black American

[But] As a black man in this country I think it’s a shame that Every few years We get a change of name.

Since those first ships from Africa That came across the sea… There were already black men in this country Who were free.

And as for those who came over On those terrible boats They were called niggars & slaves And told what to do and how to behave.

And then ‘massah’ [master] started trippin’ Doing his midnight tippin’ Down to the slave shacks where He forced he and great-great [great] grandma to be together.

And if great-great grandpa protested [?], He got tarred and feathered [if not lynched/hung by the neck on the closest tree] And at the same time the black men in the country who were free Were made [put] with the tribes like the Apache or the Cherokee [savages & subhuman]

And as a result of all of that We’re a parade of every shade [of color/melanin in the skin] And in this late day and age you can be sure There ain’t too many in this country whose bloodline is pure

But according to a geological, geographical, genealogical study Published in Time Magazine The black African people were the first on the scene

So for what it’s worth The black African people were the first on earth And through migration [miscegenation; quite different but more scientific] Our characteristics started to change] And rearrange to whatever climate we migrated to

And that’s how I became me and you became you.

So if We’re goin’ to go “back,” let’s go ALL the way back And if Adam was black and Eve was black Then that kind of makes it a natural fact that Everybody in America is an African American.

Everybody in Europe is an African-European Everybody in the Orient is an African-Asian And so on and so on [“und so weiter” in German meaning “and so forth.”]… That is if the origin of man is what we’re going to go on.

And if one drop of black blood is like they say, Then everybody’s black anyway! So quit trying to change my identity [today] I’m already know who I was meant to be.

I’m a black American, born and raised And Brother James Brown wrote a wonderful phrase: “Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud… Say it loud, I’m black and I’m proud.”

Cause I’m proud to be black, and I ain’t never lived in Africa And ‘cause my great-great grand-daddy did On my daddy’s side… Then I [might] wanna go back.

Now I have nothing against [Africa] But I’ve been blessed to go a lot of places in this world. If you ask me where I choose to live, I pick America… hands down!

Now by and by, we [blacks] were called “negroes.” And after awhile That name was banished. Anyway “negro” is just how you say “black” in Spanish.

Then we were called “colored.” Everybody is one color or another And I think it’s a shame that We hold that against each other.

And it seems like we reverted back To a time when being called “black” was an insult Even if it was another black man who said it, A fight would result.

We’ve been so brainwashed that “black” was wrong That even the yellow niggas and the black niggas Couldn’t get along.

But then came the 1960s When we struggled and died to be called equal and black And we walked with pride with our heads on high And our shoulders pushed back… and black was beautiful.

But, I guess that wasn’t good enough Cause now it’s become some other stuff

Who comes up with this shit anyway (?) Was it one, or a group of niggas just sittin’ ‘round one day?

And then we’re all a little insecure again ‘bout being called black And decided that “African American” sounded a lil’ more exotic! Well I think you were being A little more neurotic. [if not psychotic]

It’s that same mentality that got Amos & Andy R put off the air because They were embarrassed about the way the “characters” spoke And as a result of that action, a lot of wonderful black actors Ended up broke…

When we were just laughing and having fun about ourselves So I say [f.u] if you can’t take a joke. You didn’t see the “Beverly Hillbillies” being protested by White Folk! [including the jews]

And if you think that ‘cause you think That being called “African American” that all black people’s minds are at ease Since we affectionately call each other nigga, then I affectionately say to you: Nigga Please!

How come I didn’t get a chance to vote on who I’d like to be Who gave you the right to make that decision for me It ain’t under your rule or your dominion And I’m entitled to my own opinion.

Now there are some African Americans here But they recently moved here from places like Kenya, Ethiopia, Zambia, Zimbabwe and Zaire. But not a brother whose family lived in this country for generations…

Occupying space in all the locations: New York, Miami, L.A., Detroit, [&] Chicago Even if he’s wearing a dashiki and sportin’ an Afro.

And even if searchin’ your race You’ll find out quick,You’re not an African Just a black American in Africa Taking up space

Why get yourself [puffed up] to go back And you went. Most people there wouldn’t claim you were one of them As a pure bred daughter or son of them.

Your heritage is right here and now No matter what you call yourself or what you say And a lot of people died To make it that way.

If you think America is a leader on any quality, suffering or grieving (?) How come there are so many people coming [here], and so few leaving?

Rather than all this fine thought When America, should you [be] promotin’, if you want to change something Use your privilege: Get to the polls Come and suppotin’!

God knows we’ve earned the right to be called American Americans at last And rather than you [anyone] forward with progress, You’re dwelling in the past.

We’ve struggled too long and come too far Instead of folks to know Who we were Just be proud of Who we Are

We’re on the only people’s who’s name Is always a trend When is this shit going to end? Look at all the different colors of our skin.

Black is not our color It’s our core It’s what we’ve been living, & fighting And dying for…

But if you choose To be called African American, And that’s your preference (?), Then I give you that reference

But I know on this issue that I don’t stand alone on my own. And if I do, then let me be me And I’d appreciate it if when you see me, You say:

There goes a man who says it loud I’m black, I’m black… I’m a black American And I’m proud…

‘Cause I love being an American And I love being black I love being called black Yeah I said it; and I don’t take it back.

-Smokey Robinson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_KKyw8V-l0

Case Closed !AFSOCSARGE (talk) 23:23, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Sarge —Preceding unsigned comment added by AFSOCSARGE (talk • contribs) 22:59, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

I’m not certain why at one moment you confirm and state “ "African-American" is one of the dumbest terms to ever come along” then you proceed to propitiate it? Given that the Term Black or African-American can be used why would you use a term that is “Dumb” in your words? That is like you debating the term “Woman” vs “Female” when either would be seen as a valid description. I fully understand the term African-American is used in American English Lexicon but the fact still remains it is a term used “To Describe a Black American”. You yourself have used it in description. “It is, however, the standard term to use in reference to black citizens of the US” so when it is a “Reference To Black Citizens” how is using “Black” not valid. As far as an Island you still have not come up with a reason why African-American should be used over Black? Ever Ethnic group in this country claim a Nation not a Continent, is Mexico not part of North America, when have you ever heard a person of Mexican descent state they are an “American-American” ? I see that you were born Over-Seas which you of all people would have a better grasp of Color vs Nationality. There are Black People all along the South Pacific and Asia that have All the Black features of Blacks from the African Continent.

The term black people usually refers to a racial group of humans with a dark brown skin color, but it has also been used to categorise a number of diverse populations into one common group. Some definitions of the term include only people of relatively recent Sub Saharan African descent (see African diaspora). Among the members of this group, dark skin color is typically accompanied by the expression of natural afro-hair texture. Other definitions of the term Black extend to any of the populations characterized by dark skin color, a definition that also includes certain populations in Oceania, Southeast Asia[1][2], and the southern Middle East[3].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people

So with this “Fact” who is to say that the Knowles family did not descend from Oceania, Southeast Asia or the Southern Middle East? You are making an assumption that can be disputed, though stating she is Black is without any Doubt.

AFSOCSARGE (talk) 02:03, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Here's the source used in the article:[7]. It describes the parents as "African-American." "African-American" is the standard term used to describe black citizens of the US. Yes, I agree the word is dumb. Yes, I get cranky when people use it to describe all blacks. I live on an island that is 85% black, and I've only seen two African-Americans in the last 4 years. That doesn't matter, because my opinion doesn't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. Standard terminology is "African-American". The source uses "African-American". The convention on Wikipedia is to use "African-American".

You've gone over your 3RR limit by the way, but I can see that you sincerely believe yourself to be right, so I won't report it yet. Once again, that's something that doesn't matter. Whether you are right or whether you are wrong, you cannot keep reverting. If you do it again, you will be blocked.—Kww(talk) 02:21, 5 April 2009 (UTC)