Talk:LZ 129 Hindenburg

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Archive 1 (Dec 05 - Jan 07)

Cost to manufacture

The cost to manufacture is not currently given in 1930s USD or inflation-adjusted USD. Someone knowledgable please add at least one of these to the appropriate section. 74.132.209.231 02:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

huh?

"Thirty-six people (exactly 2.77 of the people on board) perished in the accident..." <-- What is this supposed to mean? Is there supposed to be a % symbol in there somewhere? 2.77 of the people on board? Does that mean that 32.23 of the people who died were not on board? LordAmeth 20:26, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

"The airship flew 308,323 km (191,583 miles) with 2,798 passengers and 160 tons of freight and mail during the season" <--I thought the airship held only 72, not a few thousand. Please clarify. M, 22:25, 5 February 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.182.24.113 (talk)

This article needs to get a better rating!

Besides being written in an intelligible language, this article needs to have some serious citation added to its narrative. Good as it sounds it needs to look like a college term paper with loads of footnoting. It should not be unthinkable that this article could go 40 - 60 deep on notes (citations). All these stories poured in as facts need to be referenced to some sort of documentation. It will not pass a GA, A, or FA rating without some serious citation. Someone needs to pull out a few library books and reference this thing. Rule of thumb should dictate a note per paragraph or at least per major topic or factoid. And I, for one, after having read it all, believe it deserves to be a Feature Article.

"Someone needs to pull out a few library books and reference this thing." - Agreed... I nominate you :)

BTW, for anyone who is not bought in to the section on Incendiary Paint Theory, in this article its good reading and is worthy of all that has been said about it whether it happened or not. Pros and cons are well developed. For a disinterested reader, I found it interesting to read.--Magi Media 03:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Colorized images

The colorized images don't belong in Wikipedia, in my opinion. Let's discuss this at talk:Trinity test. --Yath 06:45, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I really liked the color photo of the in-tact Hindenburg at Lakehurst that was the first on the page. Can that one be returned?--Magi Media 03:35, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

As soon as someone can substantiate it as being anything other than blatant original research, sure. But it isn't going to be the lead image in this article -- it's entirely inappropriate for an encyclopedia to feature what amounts to speculative art when discussing the factual aspects of a vessel, especially when un-doctored photographs are available.--chris.lawson 04:11, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm not up on my color photography history, but is this to say that there were no color photos of the Hindenburg at all. That one I am speaking of looked very good and authentic, but I'll have to admit the colorized ones of the H on fire were pretty cheezy. Kodachrome was available as early as 1935.--Magi Media 14:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Colour film was available even earlier than that, but it doesn't change the fact that these two images are doctored B&W photographs.--chris.lawson 17:59, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Allot of people like the photo of The Hindenburg at Lakehurst ok Clawson and Yath so stop changing them back.--Pediaguy16 18:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

And stop changing the second picture "The Hindenburg moments after catching fire." because its at the bottom of the page allready. --Pediaguy16 18:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Oh and a nother thing the german wikipedia has "The Hindenburg at Lakehurst" picture on their wikipedia they think its authentic so why can't we.--Pediaguy16 18:53, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

As discussed above and over at Talk:Trinity test, these images are, at best, original research and at worst an outright lie. Colourised images in general are certainly not appropriate for an encyclopedia article about their subject, and definitely should not be used in lieu of original, un-doctored photographs. If someone can substantiate these photographs as being from a reliable third-party source, and [[:WP:CITE|cite that source, they might be appropriate elsewhere in the article, but they are absolutely NOT appropriate, in ANY encyclopedia, as the lead images.--chris.lawson 20:15, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, as the uploader of the files, Pediaguy16 is far from an unbiased observer. I have no dog in this fight, as it were. And finally, the colour image of the Hindenburg burning does not qualify for this article under fair use criteria anyway, so it can't be here even if it is a genuine photograph colourised by an expert.--chris.lawson 20:24, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Ok well this was not a problem until you and yath came to this page. look i'm not trying to fight but it has been there for over two weeks everyone thought it was fine like I was telling yath its so much nicer to see some of these picture in color because it give you a better idea of what it looked like and it feels more real.--Pediaguy16 23:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

That may be true. It does not, however, address the problem of the colourisation being 100% undeniably original research, and as such, it cannot be here.--chris.lawson 23:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

A couple of quick points for Pediaguy...

1. You have added information that did not exist in the originals. People might mistake your artistic modifications for reality, but even if they don't, it's harder to see what was originally in the photos. Worse, there is no indication that your changes came from anywhere other than your own imagination. That is why the term "original research" has reared its ugly head.
2. Just because things hang around for a period of time doesn't mean they become permanent and unchangeable. Granted, there are some wikipedians who balk at changing things that have hung around for a couple of years, but many don't. And two weeks is a very short period of time.

--Yath 23:45, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Pediaguy added the picture again, with the caption "What The Hindenburg would look like in color." I have removed it as original research. Absent an original color picture, we don't know what the Hindenburg would look like in color. This picture shows what its creator thinks it would have looked like, and I think that's original research. - Eron ^Talk 19:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I like the colorized version of the Hindenburg in the Box. It appears tastefully rendered and it doesn't insult the imagination to think that's what it looked like in color. I did clean the edges off the photo and updated it.--Magi Media 03:50, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Whether you like it or not has no bearing on the fact that it is still original research and cannot be used here as such.--chris.lawson 03:17, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I highly doubt...

I highly doubt that Morrison said, "Haha!". So I changed it to a more famous line of "Oh, the Humanity!"

The whole quote seems out of place and should probably be deleted. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PurplePride (talk • contribs) 22:44, 6 February 2007 (UTC).

Bwahahah.. that was a great quote. "Haha".

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.62.205 (talk) 02:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

That doesn't make any sense at all! What makes you think he said "Oh, the Humanity!" as opposed to "Haha!"? Who cares if you doubt it? Wikipedia is about factual and reliable information, not personal opinions. And besides, both quotes may or may not be true at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.214.145.55 (talk) 06:24, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

If you ever watch the footage of it, he says " Oh the humanity!" not haha, genius.

76.29.238.75 (talk) 01:58, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Overall content of article

In my opinion, the article is too heavily weighted toward various theories regarding the accident, not the ship or even the accident itself. The successful first year of service is only briefly discussed.

One particular episode that I believe especially deserves treatment in this article is the Wahlreise (election tour) undertaken by both the Hindenburg and the Graf Zeppelin to encourage "ja" votes on the referendum to annex the Rheinland into Germany. In haste, Captain Lehmann brought the Hindenburg out of the hangar in a crosswind, damaging the tail. Dr. Eckener reprimanded him publicly. This particular event and the whole Wahlreise are significant for a number of reasons:

1. The Rheinland annexation was one of Nazi Germany's significant pre-WWII territorial expansions. (It was recently referenced in The Colbert Report, after all).
2. Dr. Eckener's criticism of Captain Lehmann led to a falling-out between the two airshipmen, who had known each other for decades.
3. Dr. Eckener's criticism offended the Nazi party and caused him to lose his status in the Zeppelin company and German society.

Also worth discussing in this article are the "millionaires' flight" over New England, the various flights to Brazil, and the tests of mounting a biplane beneath the ship's hull. The account of the accident itself should be expanded, and the more recent theories should be trimmed down, or perhaps given an article of their own.

Willy Logan 06:53, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Eckener did NOT lose his status in the Zeppelin Company as far as I know, but he was not allowed to be mentioned in media. Frankyboy5 04:11, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

How long does it take to fly from Germany to New Jersey with a Hindenburg?

The article does not give any information about this, making comparison to modern aviation technology difficult. The top speed is given as 135 km/h, but the ship would not travel in full speed at all times. Even assuming this, the article does not mention from which city it took off. Assuming further that it took off from Frankfurt and landed in Lakehurst, the distance would be 6280 km, which, divided by 135, gives 46.5 hours. So it is safe to assume that the flight took 3 to 4 days to complete. --Mbalelo 12:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

The decisive factor here is the prevailing wind across the north Atlantic, which generally flies west-to-east. So flights to North America take longer than flights in the opposite direction. Additionally, storm fronts, which the ship had to avoid, often prevented the ship from taking the shortest great circle route. According to Captain Lehmann's book Zeppelin, of the ten outbound flights from Frankfurt to Lakehurst in 1936, the average time was 63 hours, 42 minutes. In the reverse direction, the average time was 51 hours, 46 minutes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Willy Logan (talk • contribs) 22:21, 15 February 2007 (UTC).

So.. roughly 2 and a half days.

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.68.62.205 (talk) 02:25, 6 May 2007 (UTC).

"Oh/All the Humanity"

It was very interesting to read in this article the way that Morrison's reference to "the humanity" (which I had never really understood in the context of his commentary of the disaster) related to his earlier descriptions of the ground crew - I have never seen that point made anywhere before.

However, on the subject of his actual words I must take issue with the comment that "Although there is some speculation as to whether his actual words were, "Oh, the humanity," or "all the humanity", — the radio recording is unclear — it was most likely "Oh, the humanity," as the complete sentence is "Oh, the humanity and all the passengers..."

I would have thought myself that, on the contrary, "ALL the humanity and all the passengers" would make just as much sense, if not more so. He was most likely suggesting that neither the ground crew (the humanity) nor the passengers could have survived. Maybe this is a trivial point and not worth making any alteration to the article, but I thought it worth mentioning as an alternate view - the trouble was that Morrison was obviously so overcome by emotion that he became momentarily inarticulate and it is perhaps unfair to analyse his exact words too closely.

Great article anyway. (Gadsby West 02:36, 22 February 2007 (UTC))

Hm, I just listened to it, and it does rather sound more like he is saying ALL the humanity, instead of OH, the humanity. Someone else listen to it. 72.147.127.121 03:39, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh the Humanity quote

Why is this quote is such a big font? It pushes all of the other text accross the page and looks kinda messy Think outside the box 12:35, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

And still no one has answered or address this question... Think outside the box 12:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's a really classic quote, one of the most recognisable phrases of the 20th century, and so it's picked out as a quotation. Personally, I quite like the effect. Vashti 09:20, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok, but could we tidy it up just a little so that the text isn't off to one side. Move to the left maybe? Think outside the box 11:35, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure we could. I don't know how, though, so feel free to have a go if you want to. :) Vashti 17:51, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

You've got me there! I have no idea how to change it Think outside the box 10:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Weird paragraphs removed

The following paragraphs were in the section on incendiary paint, but don't specifically address incendiary paint at all. Also, there are citation needed tags from last month on them, I don't know if this qualifies as "a reasonable amount of time" but certainly anyone who can find a citation can put this back with the citation whether I take it out now or a year from now. Also also, I find these paragraphs confusing and contradictory. We have a citation that Bain supported the idea that the paint had a thermite reaction and yet he thought the fire burned without being noticed (in the presence of hydrogen?) and then it says "opponents" and "proponents" without saying who or even making clear what they are opposed to.

"Bain also claims that the fire most likely burned for a while without being seen by most witnesses. He suggests that the fire broke out on the starboard side behind the upper fin, which blocked the view of all but a few on the starboard side of the ship as well as a crew member in the lower fin. Opponents argue that the crew member mentioned actually reported that the fire started in the axial catwalk and spread mainly to the starboard side.

Other proponents claim that while the hydrogen in the Hindenburg was "odorized" with garlic so leaks might be detected, no garlic odor was reported prior to the fire.

Proponents also point out that after the fire started, Hindenburg stayed aloft for a relatively long period instead of immediately tilting and falling as it would have if the hydrogen cells were ruptured. " 66.41.66.213 04:16, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Timeline

The times of events mentioned in the article do not say 7AM or 7PM. --24.249.108.133 01:03, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

According to the Air Commerce Bulletin, published by US Dept of Commerce, dated August 15, 1937, within which is found the report of the accident investigation, describing the landing maneuvers: "At 6:08 p.m. [E.S.T.] station commander sent last message . . . " recommending earliest possible landing. In Part IV. - The Fire: "Ship was first observed afire at 6:25 p.m." [E.S.T.] Housed at the American Heritage Center, University of Wyoming, are the Denis J. Mulligan papers, (call #09121). Mulligan was Chief, Regulation and Enforcement Division, Bureau of Air Commerce, at the time of the investigation, and was designated as part of the committee to investigate the accident. There were a number of copies of this report in box 1. Interestingly, in a letter from Mulligan's wife, she mentioned how he had been "a passenger aboard the last safe flight of the Hindenburg from Germany to Lakehurst, N.J." O father please help me (talk) 22:13, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Mythbusters

The "Mythbusters" section should be moved to the "Cultural References" section. Mythbusters is an entertainment program and should not be cited as if its findings were scientifically relevant. Slayte1 14:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I must disagree. The fact that it was from mythbusters doesn't help, but its findings do help explain the disaster. It should probably be rewritten and the current part moved to cultural references. Is that a good plan? Mattbash 19:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Sure. "Mythbusters" does attempt to apply some rigor to their experiments. There's no law that says science can't be entertaining also. Wahkeenah 23:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Come to think of it, the mythbusters part probably shouldn't have its own subtitle, but instead be mixed into the hydrogen theory as support. The part about moving it to cultural references still stands, though. And yeah, science can be entertaining. In the early ninties, did you ever watch Bill Nye the Science Guy? ;) Mattbash 01:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but Bill Nye also has a degree in mechanical engineering, has worked in the aeronautics industry, holds several patents, and has been a university professor. Phaethon 0130 01:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

The Mythbusters program is NOT a dependable source of data. Their 'experiment/demonstrations' are flawed, at best, and they admit that they are NOT scientists.

That's a very general statement with no specific facts to back it up. Wahkeenah 01:17, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

I thought the episode was quite well-done and seemed fairly sound, but I agree that Mythbusters is not a science show. They always mention that the hosts have "special effects" experience at the beginning of the show, not scientific experience. Distribute the Mythbusters section between Cultural References and the Incendiary Paint Theory sections. Phaethon 0130 01:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Dunno about you guys, but to me, the Mythbusters experiments DID show that the dope had some correlation to the rate of burn, with the doped fabric burning, in flame tests, significantly more quickly than the undoped fabric. In fact, the large-scale burn test with the hydrogen diffused throughout the model looked, to me, to rather accurately replicate both the appearance of the fire, and the distribution of burn locations throughout the envelope.

My personal guess, based on that, would be the following:

• A small fire starts smoldering in the airship's skin near the rear of the envelope; it goes unnoticed for an extended period, even as they're landing.
• One of the rear hydrogen cells begins leaking, either due to the fire, or as part of the venting operations. (I suspect there may have been a slow lear in an aft cell, anyway, since the ship was inexplicably tail-heavy on approach to Lakehurst.)
• The smoldering fire ignites the leaking/venting hydrogen.
• The burning hydrogen spreads the fire to multiple points of envelope fabric ignition throughout the envelope, causing the multiple burn sources seen in the newsreel footage. The dope on the fabric helps speed the envelope's consumption, but is not the root cause in and of itself.
• The rather healthy supply of diesel fuel onboard for the ship's engines further helps spread the fire, and actually kills most of the victims (as the hydrogen fire would just float up and away from the ground).

In other words, it wasn't JUST the fabric or the hydrogen that caused the disaster; it was, like most major disasters, a combination of many factors (including both of those) coming together in just the wrong way that turned a minor fire into a cataclysm. Thoughts? Rdfox 76 11:59, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Two things that reject the incendiary paint theory: There is no evidence it could be ignited by a spark. Addison Bain just cheated by using a continuous eletric machine. He also had to orient the fabric in the proper way. Second of all, while Mythbusters did make the fabric burn like the disaster, all the other tests show that the fire shape is not consistent with the fire. It is far to triangular shaped. Plus, this is a scale model. Had it been the size of the real hindenburg, it would not burn as fast. While it may seem like the hydrogen would burn the same way but a bit faster, there are so many cells of hydrogen and 7 000 000 cubic feet of it!

A small blimp burned because it was painted with dope. This is cited as an example of something helium filled that still burned, but I can reject this as a proponent of the IPT. First of all, the fire would look like it spreads more because there is less surface area. Also, because it is non-rigid, it instantly deflates.

Even if the fabric was the first thing to be ignited by a spark, hydrogen would be required to increase the speed of the burn. Had the shipe been filled with helium, I would imagine that it would be the funniest airship disaster ever! Why? The fabric would not burn fast at all, and then the ship would land and they don't notice the fire until someone looks and says "there's fire!" Then the crew would extinguish the fire and they may want to repaint the ship.

Mythbusters showed that with hydrogen, the fire could go to the nose and skip the center section of the fire. That is alot like that of the real disaster when the flame went out of the nose like a blowtorch.

The disaster is far more complex than hydrogen.

I believe that the sharp turns (yes there were two) had played a crucial role in not only ripping one of the gas cells, but also weakening the structure. An inward dent appeared immediately behind the passenger decks the moment the fire started, later on, as the ship's tail collapses and the a fire bursts out of the nose, this part collapses inward and I believe the cell exploded from this (it seems like there is an explosion in that rear cell). The keel was also weakened so when the ship burned, as shown by the bow facing upwards while the stern is still in trim. Not only that, a water and a fuel tank bursted open. The inquiry mistakenly labelled both as water tanks, but according the ship's plans, one of them contained fuel.

So, I believe that the puncture theory is the most logical theory as it explains why the ship burned with so many cracks and dents.

However, I cannot rule out sabotage. Spectators took whatever they could before guards had taken over the wreck. One spectator may have indeed taken a bomb and there was also that Luger Pistol that one crew member salvaged from the wreckage.

The fabric remains crucial in collecting the spark and making it jump onto a piece of metal which ignited the hydrogen. The materials made it a poor conductor, but did not necessarilly make it the cause of the disaster.

I always believe that regardless if what started the fire "The Hindenburg burned because it was filled with hydrogen." (LZ 129 Hindenburg by Douglas Robinson). Frankyboy5 04:45, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Structure

There is too much here on various theories about the crash, and not enough on the ship. --Guinnog 05:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Disaster going 70 years may 6

you know this may 6th is the 70 year annaversery of the event, and it hasn't been metioned in the 2007 article or the May 6th article. have people forgotten about the Hindenburg??? Tu-49 21:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

• I know. On Sunday, it will be the 70th anniversary. Il will certainly be in the "on this day" feature on the Main Page. The reason why it's not in the May 6th article is that it's useless to mention anniversaries on date articles, because it creates a repetition. For example, the May 6 article would say "1957: 20th anniversary of the Hindenburg disaster - 1962: 25th anniversary of the Hindenburg disaster - 1987: 50th anniversary of the Hindenburg disaster, etc." It just wouldn't make sense.Themat21III 19:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

i see Tu-49 20:21, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

• Taking it a step further: "May 6, 2007 - 20th anniversary of the 50th anniversary of the Hindenburg disaster..." Wahkeenah 03:55, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

There is a mention of a misleading theory that was mentioned in the article (exaust sparks, rejected by Hugo Eckener) and there is a brand new documentary (Hindenburg: The Untold Story) that was aired on Sunday. It was so real and featured realistic animation and renactment combined with actual footage. I almost thought I was witnessing the real documentary. It clearly supports the puncture/hydrogen theory which was supported by modern day historians, and engineers, such as Graham Dorrington. It provided a detailed renactment of the disaster and the investigation after it, where witness testimonies clearly supported the puncture theory. Also supporting was that the stern of the ship looked so heavy by the end of the landing manuever. Nothing done to correct it worked. It even seemed to drop more when the ship just finished the sharp turn. I believe there must have been some massive leak of hydrogen. Frankyboy5 23:21, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Small Note - Indiana Jones

Unfortunately I pressed "enter" before finishing my comment on the last edit.

I removed the bullet point under "Cultural References" about the movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. I feel as though simply having a German zeppelin in the film does not constitute a Hindenburg reference. Phaethon 0130 01:16, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Too much on disaster, moving the parts about it to a separate article is a good idea

I believe that the whole article focuses FAR too much on the disaster. I believe that a separate article for the disaster would be a good move. To me, the article deserves a lower rating for its overfocus on the disaster. Frankyboy5 01:29, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

One Way and Roundtrip costs

According to the Modern Marvels episode "Airships", it cost $400 One Way to North America and $720 Roundtrip. Ian Lewis 23:54, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Surviving Survivers?

Would a list of surviving survivers and/or those who died at the time not be relevent?

Was wondering the same thing. There are probably at least three or four left. Anyone know? --Ragemanchoo82 (talk) 08:39, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Hmm.

The introductory paragraph of the article states that one dog died in the incident. However, further down, under the Death Toll section, it says that two dogs died. So which is it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.148.10 (talk) 08:50, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Something I remember, but can anyone find a reference?

About 10-15 years ago, there were several news articles I remember hearing, but I don't remember enough of the exact details. The gist was that someone (I believe a crew member) had just died, and on his deathbed he had confessed to causing the Hindenburg to blow up/catch fire. I know the articles gave the person's name and reputed station in the ship, and also described in general how he had described causing the disaster.

Now it is entirely possible some old nameless nobody died and invented a confession to try to claim some unentitled fame. Or that a next of kin invented the story for the same general reasons. Or, perhaps, there might have been some truth to the story.

Can anyone find any references or rememberances of this event? Given that there are references to movies and news stories about the event given in the article, it seems to me that this "deathbed confession" episode at least deserves mention, whether the confession may be true or not. Loren.wilton (talk) 00:51, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Major rewrite started

I have come across this article from a redirect of The Hindenburg film. I am about to rewrite major sections to remove cruft and POV. I am willing to discuss all changes. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 06:01, 8 January 2008 (UTC).

Weasel word cleanup

Bob notes in a recent cleanup of one of my cleanups: please alter "some believe," widely remembered," "critics point out"- these are all able to be challenged as unverifiable.

I fully agree with what he is saying. However, I don't have any source references for this article (I've just been doing copy editing on the existing text) so can't help get these cleaned up.

If anyone can supply a reference to where these lines came from I would much appreciate it. I suspect one of the references cited in the article was the original source of these phrases, which are pretty much all in one paragraph about whether the disaster took 34 or 37 seconds. Loren.wilton (talk) 21:36, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Bob is actually "Bill" and I do have the reference sources that are listed in the article. FWIW Bzuk (talk) 23:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC).

Oops! Mea culpa. I guess that's what happens when I only look at your talk page once, and that several weeks ago, and then think I remember what I saw.

But I'm glad you have some references! :-) Loren.wilton (talk) 23:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

(BTW, I find the entire concept of "controversy" over 34 vs 37 seconds to be just plain silly, given that the event that is "the start of the disaster" has not being clearly defined; and even if it was clearly defined in this context, there were no witnesses that could be trusted to spot this event to a fraction of a second. I would be in favor of ripping the entire paragraph and replacing it with "in less than 40 seconds".) Loren.wilton (talk) 00:05, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

New infobox

Although the other infobox was in place for awhile, a new infobox has been substituted, what do people think? Personally I liked the older version.

New version: Template:Infobox Aircraft Specifications General characteristics

• Capacity: 72

Performance

Old version: Template:Infobox Airship

FWIW Bzuk (talk) 13:59, 28 January 2008 (UTC).

Personally I prefer the older infobox, I find it easier to read. Loren.wilton (talk) 08:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Flag in infobox

The German flag (used by the Weimar Republic) should be removed, as it only served under Nazi Germany. -- Realismadder (talk) 15:47, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Hydrogen Assistance

Greetings, friends! I've been working on revamping the sources for hydrogen. There are several statements in hydrogen relating to the Hindenburg and airships in general. All of the current sources are personal webpages and the like. I noticed that this article has several book sources. Can someone who is more familiar with the subject and those book sources take a look at hydrogen? References 13, 14, and 74 all need to be replaced. Thanks! --Cryptic C62 · Talk 01:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Largest flying machine?

it was the largest atmospheric flying machine of any kind ever built.

Can we delete "atmospheric"? Tempshill (talk) 05:19, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone added "(by dimension)" after largest flying machine of any kind. Is there another kind of larger or should I delete it? Rsduhamel (talk) 19:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Infobox

I think a case can be made for an exception to a general practice of not having an infobox for individual aircraft, especially when the aircraft/airship itself is an iconic one- see Spirit of St. Louis for an example. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:30, 6 July 2008 (UTC).

I'd see it the other way around - the article shouldn't carry the standard infobox because the aircraft is so iconic and could easily mislead people into thinking that this was a unique machine (especially with the Number built = 1) field.

Since the "vital statistics" of an individual aircraft are going to be different from that of its stablemates anyway, perhaps we can come up with an infobox to use in cases like this one? I'll put it to Wikiproject Aircraft --Rlandmann (talk) 19:45, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Sounds like a good plan, I can suggest that there are other individual examples that may be affected, the Wright Flyer, AEA Silver Dart, GlobalFlyer and so on. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:49, 6 July 2008 (UTC).

Hindenburg III

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow opens with the Hindenburg III docking with the Empire State Building. Is this worth mentioning in cultural references? Hellbus (talk) 04:37, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Deaths

From what I understand of the disaster, most of those who were killed died from jumping to their deaths, while those who remained inside the burning airship rode it safely to the ground. This might be a useful bit of information to add, when comparing the flaws of airships to the flaws of airplanes. - 68.97.132.22 (talk) 22:34, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

You will need to reference it. Rsduhamel (talk) 19:40, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Overall, I like the current article's balance. I would like to recommend an Epilogue section, it would be appropriate -- what were some of the immediate consequences of the disaster? What happened to the airship program? Second, was there ever an "official" report of the cause -- something done by the airship makers, perhaps?

Cyreenik (talk) 04:05, 6 May 2009 (UTC)