Talk:Napoleon III

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Could something be mentioned here about his early life in the Carbonari, and how this hurt French interests by giving an unhealthy anti-Austrian bias to his foreign policy?

"He also directed the building of the French railway network. The design was very inefficient, however, as all routes lead to Paris. There were lines between Paris and Lyon, Caen, and Marseilles, but no lines connecting the latter cities to each other. Thus to travel from Marseilles to Bordeaux one needed to go via Paris, a great inefficiency. This was economically inefficient"

This does not sound much NPOV to me. David.Monniaux 14:41, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

True, but it doesn't sound very efficient to me! Admittedly, the writing might need some work... David Corbett 03:43, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

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For those interested in the like, a contemporary American account of Napoleon III's death may be found at [1]. -- Itai 23:02, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Why isn't the Paris Commune mentioned? --Tothebarricades.tk 03:58, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well, you can add something, of course. The Paris Commune was not particularly relevant to Napoleon III, though - it started after the armistice with Prussia/Germany, which itself was many months after Napoleon's capture at Sedan and the end of the Empire. john k 05:37, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Generally speaking, this biography is largely biaised against Louis-Napoleon Bonaparte (LNB). Specifically, the part "President of the French Republic" is unacurrate and inconsistent with the next parts.

• Describing LNB as a dictator and comparing his methods with Hitler's is an historical non sense :

- LNB re-established general elections for the house members
- He eventually accepted the parliamentary system (government shall have the confidence of the house, not just be chosen by the sovereign). It is mentionned later in the text.
- LNB legalized trade unions, it does not sound very hitlerian or dictatorial to me...

• The Coup d'etat was obviously illegal, but just as illegal as the revolution that established the republic 4 years before.

• The text suggests that his only asset and skill was his uncle name but then how could he gain and keep power during 22 years just thanks to his name ? That's historically ridiculous.

• One should stress that LNB gave definitively in 1851 the right to vote to poor or uneducated men.

• One cannot say that the 1849 "National Assembly was dominated by the Monarchists" since 446 members against 278 voted to allow his re-election (short of the 3/4 required majority)

• I never heard of him "having a german accent"

--Geo115fr 02:50, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Monarchists might vote for his re-election, surely? Certainly one might expect legitimists to do so (the Orleanists probably would have wanted Joinville or Aumale as the next president). The two monarchists groupings could not agree as to who the candidate for the throne would be, therefore not necessarily any harm in keeping LNB around. I agree that he should not be compared with Hitler, but at the same time, his rule is widely considered to be one of the bases for modern dictatorship. And "eventually" is the key word in his acceptance of parliamentary rule - it didn't happen until 1870. There was not even any nominal opposition until 1860 or so. Obviously, a 19th century ruler didn't have the tools of oppression available that a 20th century one would have. Equally obviously, Napoleon III considered himself a reformer, and sympathetic to the working man, and that influenced his policies re: labor unions, universal suffrags, etc. I fully agree that we should not say that his only asset was his uncle's name. He was clearly intelligent and had an ability to use his uncle's name to good purpose. He definitely had his flaws (many of them), but he wasn't a total incompetent. And he had smart people working for him, particularly Persigny. john k 12:42, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

The comparison with Adolf Hitler have been erased. However, it is still suitable to call him a dictator, at least for the early part of his imperial regime. I want to know more about his upbringing. Where did he live during which years? I have to know that in order to value the claim that he spoke French with a German accent. Did he have any military education? If not he would not have had the typical “soldier” posture shown on the uppermost portrait. The artist might just have painted him so in order to make his appearance more similar to his supposed uncle. It is generally assumed that his father was Louis Bonaparte. Charles Louis Napoléon might not have looked much like him. But the Mendelian laws of heredity allows for children not looking much like any of their parents.

2006-12-03 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Napoleon III had some sketchy military education (he had recieved some one-on-one instruction from fellow-exiles who had been colonels in Napoleon I's army during his youth in Switzerland), but had no actual military experience before he became Emperor, and had no talent for generalship. However, as his rule was in large part based on the reflected glow of his uncle's military glory, he had to portray himself as a military man in his uncle's image. Thus he was personally present as Commander-in-Chief at many of the battles fought during his reign, most notably Solferino and Sedan, and his publicity said he was the one making the tactical decisions, although in actual fact he left the decisions up to the professional generals. It was because he was personally present as (nominal) Commander at the Battle of Sedan that the Prussians were able to capture him in person.

The claim that he spoke French with a German accent is found in the 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica, presumably based on primary sources of Napoleon III's own time: "It was at this time he acquired the German accent which he never lost." (http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Napoleon_III) Louis-Napoleon spent his formative childhood and adolescent years, after his family's exile from France in 1815 when he was seven, in German-speaking countries. He first wandered around different places for two years with his mother, including both French-speaking Geneva and German-speaking Carlsruhe and Augsburg. They then found a permanent home in exile in Arenenburg, where they lived from 1817, when Louis-Napoleon was nine, in the German-speaking canton of Thurgau in Switzerland. As an adolescent he studied at the gymnasium school at Augsburg, in Bavaria, where he recieved his education. He visited Italy with his mother in 1823, but only moved there permanently after his education had been completed, in early adulthood. Thus the critical years of his childhood and adolescence, certainly from the age of nine onwards, were all spent in a German-speaking environment in Switzerland and Bavaria (although obviously he would have spent much of his time speaking French with his family and with his French tutors). See the 1911 Encyclopedia Britannica article.

Causabon, 5th November 2007.

That means he lived in French-spoken areas until he was nine. In general, people don’t have any accent if they begin to learn a language at the age of eight or earlier. So it is quite unlikely that he would had begun to speak his mother tongue with German accent. It is much more likely that he would had learned to speak German with FRENCH accent. There is exceptions to the rule, of cause. Encyclopaedia Britannica is said to be written by experts in the field. But his full name is written incorrectly in the article: I see no reason why he would be named “De Bourbon”. In fact, “Bourbon” is the name of a branch of the dynasty of de Capet which previously ruled France. (“de Capet”, or simply “Capet”, is one of the worlds oldest surnames.) I found a photo of Napoléon III on Wikimedia Commons, where he looked like he was in his late middle age (equivalent of a present-day 60-year-old). It does not show the typical “soldier” posture I thought about, so he did not had that.

2007-01-12 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

Assassination attempt

The Times, Friday, Jan 13, 1854; pg. 5; Issue 21637; col F, gives the trial for those attempting to kill the Emperor as the day before; this is the Paris Hippodrome attempt. Is there an error with the cited date in April 1855? It would appear to be too late unless this ais the second attempt. Th eParis Hippodrome plot deserves a mention, anyway.-MrCandy

The Cotton Crisis, the Silver Drain, and the French Intervention in Mexico

This article does not adequately discuss the logic behind Napoleon's intervention in Mexico. Modern historians point to numerous factors for the intervention, ranging from his support of monarchies to France's protest to recent US expansion (Texas annexation and Gadsden Purchase). However, the two main factors for Napoleon's invasion of Mexico was the continuous and alarming loss of silver for specie and drastic decrease in cotton imports.

The 'silver drain' began in the early 1850s as vast amounts of gold from California, Siberia, and Australia poured into Europe. At first, France continued to import more silver than it exported (to other countries using silver as specie like Belgium and Switzerland), but as gold continued to flood European markets, silver became more scarce as speculators hoarded, melted down, and exported it. To specify this point, during 1850s the ratio of gold specie and silver specie inverted, changing from 3/4 silver and 1/4 gold to 1/4 silver and 3/4 gold. This meant that silver exports eventually exceeded silver imports, and France had to choose between three options: 1) maintain the law of 1803 which dictated that silver was the monetary unit (but would also accept gold because France's monetary system was actually bimetallic), 2) demonetize silver (which would totally change France's monetary structure), or 3) demonetize gold. The French opted for the first option because previous influxes of gold (like from Brazil in the 1820s) would breifly upset the monetary standard, and then stabilize. However, gold continued to pour in, silver became increasingly rare as speculators hoarded, melted down, and exported it to silver-consuming countries (most notably Switzerland and Belgium), who face similar crises. In other words, there was no precedent for the gold boom, and Napoleon sought silver supplies from Sonora which allegedly contained the world's largest silver deposits. This would help even out the gold-silver ratio and stabilize the crisis.

The 'cotton crisis' occurred when the United States broke out into Civil War. The Northern blockade prevented the South from exporting cotton. As a result, European consumers found themselves unable to obtain cotton, a very important industry in France. Although French entrepreneurs had investments in Algeria, Egypt, West Africa and Turkey, they did not make up for the drastic loss of cotton. The only other available market was India, which had a very different (and arguably worse) type of cotton and demanded payment in silver, which the French desperately sought to hold onto. The Indian cotton forced textile industries to change their machinery, which put many smaller mills under. Also, the decrease in cotton forced the cotton industry to produce less cotton, which consequentially raised cotton prices. The result was growing unemployment rates(which threatened to erupt into revolt) and a decrease in the export of luxury goods. Napoleon, with the urging of several surveys, sought to grow cotton in Mexico to remedy the problem.

Napoleon felt confident that the intervention would work for several important reasons. First, the United States could not enforce the Monroe Doctrine in the middle of its Civil War. Second, France knew that other European countries would not oppose the intervention and wooed them by agreeing to repay 2/3 of Mexico's debt to European investors. Third, Mexican Conservatives appealed to Europe for a monarch, and during times of political unrest, even Mexican Liberals sought a monarch who would at least provide stability. Fourth, neither the Europeans nor the Mexicans wanted the US to expand any further south (into Mexico). Fifth, France's previous military victories in the Crimea and in Austria displayed the power of the French army, although the Prussians would later defeat the French in a war that shifted the balance of power on the European continent. In fact, it would not be until the US ended its war and began supplying Juarez's forces that the rebels would oust the French.

The French intervention in Mexico may have been a blunder on Napoleon's part because of the inherent chaotic and splintered atmosphere of Mexico (Apaches, Pimas, Liberals, Conservatives, etc.), especially in the Northern regions where most of the silver was supposedly, but also because Napoleon III miscalculated the outcome of the Civil War. However, his intent was justifiable, given France's situation: Mexico appeared to be the perfect country to solve the cotton crisis and the silver drain simultaneously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jhype86 (talk • contribs) 08:10, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Please add the following to this article:

In fiction

• He is a major character in an alternate history called Fire Warms the Northern Lands by Ed Hanks

This information was placed there as a complement to the "In movies" section, but was quickly taken down and referred to as an "advertisement". This is not an advertisement, as there is no way I or anyone else can profit from someone following the link. It is a free site with creative product from unpaid web authors. The story in question is one of the very few treatments of Louis Napoleon in fiction anywhere, and since movies are being cited, and in other articles books are cited (i.e. "Tecumseh in Fiction").

The section on "advertisements" says this: Articles considered advertisements include those that are solicitations for a business, product or service, or are public relations pieces designed to promote a company or individual.

This entry is not a solicitation for a business, product or service (unless you consider writing a service, in which case Wikipedia can't realistically cite any books). The site in question is a commercial site, but this is not a commercial section of the site -- it's a creative section. Further, it is not a public relations entry, but a sincere effort to highlight one of the few mentions of Louis Napoleon in popular literature.

Requested move

This page recently was moved to a new title without discussion. The naming conventions require that the title be changed back to Napoleon III of France. However, this cannot be done without an admin's assistance, and so I have posted the move here for discussion. --Russ (talk) 13:47, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

• Support as revert of an undiscussed move. No comment on the merits yet. —  AjaxSmack  02:19, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Credit Mobilier

I de-linked the reference to the Credit Mobilier since it led to an article on the historic US company with that name. Perhaps someone should create another article for the Credit Mobilier mentioned in this article. Tmangray (talk) 00:42, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Fatherhood

There is a possible sollution to the problem of who Charles Louis Napoléon's father was. After a great deal searching, I have managed to find a photo of him without a beard. It turned out that he had a cleft in his chin. This trait is due to a dominant gene, which means it is always expressed regaldless if you have it in one of two copies. Louis Napoléon Bonaparte also had a cleft in his chin. If no other possible father had Charles Louis Napoléon was really the son of his mother's husband. 2008-12-25 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.

At least one biography states that his illegitimacy was common knowledge, and that his mother used to joke about it - to the effect "Oh, Silly me. I got the dates wrong!" 86.154.93.83 (talk) 14:21, 11 May 2009 (UTC)