Talk:Sakhalin Koreans

image not fair use

Per wikipedia:fair use, images must contribute something substantial, and Image:SakhalinKoreansLiteraturnayaGazeta2005.jpg does not contain anything that could not be recreated in a free way. / Fred-Chess 10:18, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

GA

Comments

Hey, thanks for responding immediately to the problems that I've addressed. At the same time, I'd like to mention that I don't want this to be "I tell you what to do" type of thing. Anyways, I wasn't done reviewing, but thanks anyways! (Wikimachine 22:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

Criteria

A good article has the following attributes.

1. It is well written. In this respect:

(a) the prose is comprehensible, the grammar is correct, and the structure is clear at first reading.

(b) the structure is logical, introducing the topic and then grouping together its coverage of related aspects; where appropriate, it contains a succinct lead section summarising the topic, and the remaining text is organised into a system of hierarchical sections (particularly for longer articles);

(c) It does not seriously violate the standards in Wikipedia Manual of style. (In particular, sections to go by include the Article lead guideline, Article layout guideline, Jargon guideline, Words to avoid using guideline, How to write about Fiction guideline, and List incorporation)

(d) necessary technical terms or jargon are briefly explained in the article itself, or an active link is provided.

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable. In this respect:

(a) it provides references to any and all sources used for its material;

(b) the citation of its sources is essential, and while the use of inline citations is not mandatory, it is highly desirable, in particular for longer articles. Unambiguous citations of reliable sources are necessary for any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged. Articles whose topics fall under the guideline on scientific citations should adhere to the guideline.

(c) sources should be selected in accordance with the guidelines for reliable sources;

(d) it contains no elements of original research.

• NOTE: a little more bits of reference would be very ideal (especially for statements that sound like rumours or elaborated truths).

3. It is broad in its coverage. In this respect :

(a) it addresses all major aspects of the topic (this requirement is slightly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required by WP:FAC, and allows shorter articles and broad overviews of large topics to be listed);

(b) it stays focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary details (no non-notable trivia).

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy. In this respect:

(a) viewpoints are represented fairly and without bias;

(b) all significant points of view are fairly presented, but not asserted, particularly where there are or have been conflicting views on the topic.

• NOTE: maybe defense of the accusations on the massacres from the Japanese and Russian points of view could make this article sound a little more neutral.

5. It is stable, i.e. it does not change significantly from day to day and is not the subject of ongoing edit wars. This does not apply to vandalism and protection or semi-protection as a result of vandalism, or proposals to split/merge the article content.

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic. In this respect:

(a) the images are tagged and have succinct and descriptive captions;

(b) a lack of images does not in itself prevent an article from achieving Good Article status.

(c) any non-free images have a fair use rationale.

Conclusion

After most of the grammar & content problems have been addressed, this article should be elevated to GA status. (Wikimachine 22:59, 13 March 2007 (UTC))

Grammar

Done March 14th

• trace their roots to immigrants --> trace their roots to the immigrants
• immigrants from the Gyeongsang and Jeolla provinces of Korea during the late 1930s and early 1940s I'm sure that what you want to say is "immigrants who came from the Gyeongsang and Jeolla provinces during the late 1930s and the early 1940s."
• At that time --> At the time
• was also under the control of the Empire of Japan Take out "also"
• forced Korean labourers into service Just Koreans within the working age? "Labourers" could make confusion (I'm assuming that not all of those drafted were laborers, at first).
• to fill labour shortages --> "fill the labour" Also, you don't have to use British spelling. American "labor" is fine.
• either for Japan or for their home Change "for" to "to"
• For the next forty years, they lived and raised "They could refer to either Japanese or Koreans. Change it to "Koreans"
• chose to remain. -->chose to stay... or chose to remain there. Remain's a vague word & should be used in only specific situations because it has so many prevalent uses.
• Due to differences of language --> Due to the differences
• Sakhalin Koreans may or may not identify as Koryo-saram--> identify themselves
• Koryo-saram; the term "Koryo-saram" There's no need for ";" here. Actually, make parenthesis for the sentence following that point.
• there were fewer than one thousand Koreans in the whole of Karafuto Prefecture, overwhelmingly male. --> Try to use be verbs, passive verbs, etc. as little as possible. "fewer than one thousand Koreans, mostly male, inhabited the entire Karafuto Prefecture."
• desire of the Japanese government When you talk about governments, you use more objective words. "Japanese government's aim"
• people on the groundEither unclear or unnecessary.
• sparsely-populated prefecture Sparcely populated by Koreans?
• prefecture, the availability either this is a beginning of a sentence fragment or the infinitive "to put more" does not apply to "availability". Same applies to an influx of Korean immigrant
• Russian-controlled Northern Sakhalin --> "Russian-controlled territory of Northern Sakhalin" Has to be clearer: controlled what of Northern Sakhalin? Road? City, state, province?
• fleeing the advance of the Russian Revolution What is fleeing the Russian Revolution? the Koreans or the Northern Sakhalin? --> "to flee from the escalation of the Russian Revolution"
• as late as the mid 1930s, there were still fewer Get rid of "still". It sounds awkward or obvious because you already have "as late as".
• continued to import labour --> import more labor
• recruiters in Korea continued to import labour to the island to work in coal mines and lumber yards The recruiters imported more Koreans so that the recruiters could work in coal mines or because Koreans could? --> recruiters continued to import more Koreans to fill the increasing demands of the coal mines and lumber yards.
• At the peak -->At the height of Korean inhabitance... or At some point the Korean labor population reached up to 150,000.
• Of those, roughly 10,000 mine workers were relocated should be relocated to the end of the paragraph. Restate: "Around 10,000 mine workers were relocated to Japan prior to the War's end, and present-day Sakhalin Koreans' efforts to locate them proved futile.
• In order to deal with spies --> spy activities
• often --> frequently
• in order to Get rid of "in order", change to "as a counter intelligence measure within the Soviet-controlled Northern Sakhalin because, as indigenous inhabitants, they effectively avoided the Soviets' scrutiny.
  • Above changes incorporated, aside from "laborers" (see WP:ENGVAR; the standard is the dialect used by the first contributor, unless there's an obvious reason to use either American or British) and "immigrants" vs. "the immigrants" and "differences" vs. "the differences" because I'm not sure what you're getting at. Also I reworked the sentences about "fleeing the advance of the Russian Revolution" entirely, not sure if that's any better. cab 00:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Done March 17th

• Ethnic Koreans could also be found on both sides of the border Maybe "also" is not also necessary. Add "although" and then get rid of "but" in the later sentence.
• the support for the ... among Koreans - are you trying to convey that not all Koreans supported the movement? If not, --> the populace's support for the Korean Independence Movement (should be capitalized, I'm sure). Get rid of "in 1937" at the end of the sentence b/c it's repetitive.
• deportation of Koreans Should be capitalized? Not sure myself.
• Against this background of mistrust --> Above the same background of mistrust, the Japanese civilians... What war's end? --> amidst the... I'm pretty sure that the reason why the Japanese killed the Koreans was to prevent them from revolting, or serving with the Russians. Right? I think that we could deliver that implication with your future correction. Actually, delete this because you are going to talk about in the following section.
• Japanese portion of Sakhalin I'm quite sure that territories are not referred to as "portions" in the context of war.
  • Not sure what the word is here. It wasn't an occupied territory, but had been ceded after the Russo-Japanese war.
• resulting the deaths of 20,000 civilians.--> and 20,000 civilians were killed.
• In the confusion and terror that ensued Remove and terror? It doesn't sound encyclopedic.
• a rumour began to spread that ... were massacred by Japanese people. a rumor that ethnic Koreans could be serving as spies for the Soviet Union spread, and led the Japanese authorities to commit massacre against the Koreans.
• Two examples ..., which lasted from August 20 to August 23, 1945.--> Despite the generally limited amount of information about the massacres, two examples of the massacre are comparatively well-known today: the incident in Kamishisuka on August 18, 1945, and another at the Mizuho Village, from August 20 to August 23, 1945.
• In Kamishisuka, on August 17 or August 18, Start another paragraph. Delete "on August 17 or August 18" (repetitive).
• 19 Koreans were taken to the police on suspicions of spying; of those, 18 were found shot within the police station the next day --> the Japanese police arrested 19 Koreans on charges of spy activities, and killed 18 the next day.
• In Mizuho Village, where Koreans and Japanese lived and worked side by side, Koreans typically worked as tenant farmers or contract labourers on construction projects --> In Mizuho Village, Japanese evacuees from the north of the Soviet-Japanese line of control claimed that the Koreans were cooperating with the Red Army and that they were pillaging Japanese property, and caused fear of Koreans among the local Japanese population that resulted in the execution of Koreans from August 20 to August 23, 1945
  • I avoided the word "execution" here because, unlike the massacre in Kamishisuka, most evidence points to the fact that this was done by the civilians rather than the police. cab 01:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
• Other individual Koreans--> other individual Koreans.
• committed during the evacuation; one woman --> during the evacuation: one woman
• murdered by Japanese troops after he witnessed mass shootings of hundreds of American POWs--> murdered by the Japanese troops after he had witnessed mass shootings of American prisoners of war
• signed in December 1946--> on December 1946
  • "On December 25th, 1946" but "in December" when the exact date is not known. cab 01:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Done 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

• However, out of the 150,000 Koreans on the island, while many were able to return to mainland Japan or the northern half of the Korean peninsula, roughly 43,000 were not accepted for repatriation by Japan, and also could not be repatriated to the southern half of the Korean peninsula due to the political situation --> Many of the 150,000 Koreans on the island safely returned to mainland Japan and the northern half of the Korean peninsula; however, roughly 43,000 out of the 150,000... (Isn't repatriated repetitive?) (Wikimachine 01:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC))
  • Used "went to the northern half" since, strictly speaking, they're not really returning since their homes were in the South. cab 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• In 1957, Seoul also requested RM "also"
• Tokyo's assistance --> Tokyo for assistance to secure the departure of ethnic Koreans from Sakhalin via Japan, but Tokyo disregarded the request and shifted the blame of negligence to the Soviet Union; the earlier policy of granting admittance only to the Sakhalin Koreans who were married to Japanese citizens, or had a Japanese parent.
  • "negligence" seems a bid odd here. Rephrased as "but Tokyo took no real action on the request, and blamed Soviet intransigence for the lack of progress in resolving the issue". cab 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• who were unused to the Soviet system and unable to speak Russian--> who were unfamiliar with the Soviet system and...
• among the Koryo-saram in Central Asia to assist them. --> from Central Asia
• instruction, in some cases--> instruction. In some cases, Russian-Korean bilingual teachers were imported
• Soviet policy towards the Sakhalin Koreans continued --> Soviet policy towards the Sakhalian Koreans on various issues continued
• with relations --> with the bilateral relations between Soviet Union and North Korea (b/c this is the first time you mention North Korea in a political context)
• North Korea demanded that North Korea demanded whom? (also it'd be ideal for you to use "Pyeongyang" here to make "North Korea" less repetitive)
• analogous to Chongryon's more successful organization of the Zainichi Koreans "what" organization of the Zainichi Koreans in Japan?
  • Clarified as analogous to Chongryon's similar, more successful efforts among the Zainichi Koreans cab 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• difficult for Sakhalin Koreans --> "for the Sakhalin Koreans"
• to take up Soviet citizenship --> "receive Soviet citizenship"
  • I changed "take up" to "obtain" here, then a later usage of "obtain" to "secure". "difficult to receive" seems a bit strange due to the shift in the agency of the action. cab 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• and an ever-larger proportion --> "and an ever-increasing proportion"
  • Trying to avoid using "increasing" twice. Used "growing". cab 01:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
• chose instead to become North Korean citizens rather than deal --> add "to" after "rather than"
• their freedom of moment --> "movement"
• apply for permission apply where?
• only 25% of the population
• You have a lot of pluperfect with "had verbed", but I think you only need perfect tense.
• difficulties this entailed RM "this entailed" b/c you already talked about itin the previous sentence.
• in the community --> "within the community"
• were once again being encouraged to take up Soviet citizenship. --> "were encouraged to apply for Soviet citizenship"

Somewhat done on 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• In the late 1960s and early 1970s, --> By the late 1960s to early 1970s
  • "by (range), an action started to occur" doesn't seem right to me. cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• began to improve. By this time, only 2,000 more of their population had --> improved as the outside world began to pay much more attention to their situation.

As for the info on 2,000 Sakhalin Koreans who successfully left the island, let's leave that to a later part of the paragraph.

• Correction: Starting in 1966,[18] Park No Hak, a former Sakhalin Korean who had successfully repatriated to Japan by the virtue of marriage with a Japanese wife, made a total of 23 petitions to the Japanese government to discuss with the Soviet government the issue of the Sakhalin Koreans.

Was he aiming for repatriation also?

My presumption here is no, based on the fact that after arriving in Japan, he could have easily applied for RoK nationality and moved to South Korea, but he didn't actually do this. But I'm not sure how the sentence begs that question. To clarify, I changed successfully repatriated to Japan to earlier received permission to leave Sakhalin and settle in Japan cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• Correction: His attempts inspired about 500,000 South Koreans to form an organisation to work towards the repatriation of their co-ethnics, and to broadcast radio from Seoul for the Sakhalin Koreans.
  • Muddles the agency of the action. The 500,000 South Korean organisation members didn't set up their own radio station to do the broadcasts; this was undertaken by Seoul (i.e. the government) as a result of their petitioning. which resulted in Seoul beginning radio broadcasts targetted at the Sakhalin Koreans is admittedly awkward but I was trying to avoid yet another semicolon construction (which I have now put in as in response, the South Korean began radio broadcasts targetted at the Sakhalin Koreans, in an effort to ensure them that they had not been forgotten.). cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• to accept responsibility and pay for the transportation of the Sakhalin Koreans back to South Korea'--> to accept responsibility for the Sakhalin Koreans and their return to South Korea.
  • I'm putting it as "diplomatic and financial responsibility"; to the extent I can tell, even in 1984 when Japan actually began paying for the visits, there was no acceptance of "moral responsibility"; that didn't come until Nakayama's 1990 apology. cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• Correction: Although the Soviet government finally began to permit the Sakhalin Koreans to naturalize[14] as much as 10% of the Sakhalin Koreans continued to refuse both Soviet and North Korean citizenship, and to demand repatriation to South Korea.

Could you put this somewhere else? I don't think that this fits here.

• However, the situation began to take a turn for the worse starting in 1976.. RM "however", starting in 1976 --> in 1976 b/c you already mention "began to take".
  • Rephrased this part entirely to have a place to put in the information about the 2000 people who already emigrated. cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• starting in 1976. That year, the Sakhalin government --> merge in 1976 when the Sakhalin government...
  • This structure may confuse people (why would the Sakhalin government's acceptance of emigration petitions be bad?) cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• causing protests from the North Korean embassy--> causing the North Korean embassy to protest the new emigration policy.
• The Soviet authorities in the end chose for unspecified reasons to refuse to issue exit visas to most of those concerned, leading to the unusual case of public demonstrations about the refusals by Korean families.--> In the end, the Soviet authorities refused to issue exit visas to most of the 800 applicants;

Now here's the problem. After ";", there should be the sentence about public demonstrations. Where? Who? When?

This also causes problems in the following sentences. I know that they are grammatically flawed, but I don't know how to fix them accordingly b/c the sentence above is too vague. (Wikimachine 17:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC))

Not really sure here because there's no semicolon in that sentence at the moment. The only semicolon in that paragraph was earlier, about the North Koreans "protesting" the emigration policy (I changed that to "complain" to avoid confusion with "protest" as in "go on a protest march")

• Through to the early 1980s--> Throughout the early 1980s
• locally-born Korean youth, increasingly interested in their heritage... "locally" could mean anything. --> "an increasing amount of Sakhalin Korean youths began to possess interest in their Korean heritage, and sought to emigrate to South Korea. Such effort was seen by the Sakhalin Korean community as treacherous. ... what relevance? My question is this. Did they actually attempt to go to South Korea, or just wish.... b/c you really can't know if those youths want to or not. Any activities that they did to reveal this? And... why was it seen as treacherous? And what did the Sakhalin community do as a response?
  • Seen as traitors by Russians, not by themselves. cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• The nadir of ethnic relations came after the 1983 shooting-down of Korean Air Flight 007 by the Soviet Union. --> The 1983 shooting-down of the Korean Air Flight 007 by the Soviet jet fighters marked the nadir of the ethnic relations ... ethnic relations with whom? And could you specify what were the effects of the "nadir"? Why would we call this phase the "nadir" if there's no evidence that policy relations, etc. deteroriated?
  • To be honest, I'm not exactly sure, it was a one-liner in Vladivostok News which didn't really develop the theme. The Lituraturnaya Gazeta article also discusses the general degradation of ethnic relations around this time, but doesn't mention anything specific to KA 007.cab 22:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Done 22:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

• the Soviet Union also--> also the Soviet Union
  • John and also Mary like apples but not John likes apples. Also Mary likes apples cab 22:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
• The Foreign Ministry also has allocated RM "also". Too many "also"'s.
• but construction has --> but the project
• among Sakhalin Koreans--> among the Sakhalin Koreans. Too little "the"'s.
• Japanese companies --> the Japanese companies
• outnumber Korean companies --> the Korean counterparts
  • Disagree here, there is no definite referent for "the". If we had set up a structure like "Mitsubishi, Toyota, Honda, Sony, Samsung, and LG all set up offices on the island", then "the Japanese companies outnumber the Korean counterparts" might make sense. I put "their Korean counterparts" for now cab 22:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Ok. Wow, take a look at how much work we've accomplished! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikimachine (talk • contribs) 21:27, 22 March 2007 (UTC).

• due to the years they spent exiled from their homeland RM the phrase. Repetitive & already stated above.
• many members of the youngest generation--> the younger generations
• are keenly interested in--> have developed interest in the Japanese culture
• from Sakhalin State University add "the"

Done 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

• Sakhalin and South Korea, and North and South Korea --> "Sakhalin and South Korea, and the two Koreas"
• influence among the Sakhalin Koreans --> "influence on the Sakhalin Koreans:" (link it to the next sentence with ":")... By the way, could you specify what type of influence? Economic? Cultural?
• local programming I'm sure this is "local programs"
  • [1]. Programs might be right also, but to me, it makes it sound more like they are picking and choosing arbitrary local programs at random, rather than having a set schedule of broadcasting of local content. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• the only Korean television station in all of Russia sounds too abrupt--> "which then was the only Korean television station in all of Russia"
• either those who illegally escaped across the border, or those who escaped North Korean labour camps in Russia itself. I don't think "either" is necessary. Make it a complex sentence with "and" replacing "or". "itself" is not necessary.
• South Korean investors also participate The rest of the paragraph was in past tense... I think that we need to get this tense issue straightened out (---> all past).
  • No indication that the action in question ("participation") has stopped, so I put "began to participate" cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• comprise the majority of international students at the--> "comprise a majority of the international students at the"
  • Typically "the majority", "a plurality". cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• In addition to the elderly, a few younger Koreans have also chosen to move to South Korea, rm "also", fix to "Some of the elderly and younger Korean populations from Sakhalin moved to South Korea".
  • The point is to separate the elderly moving to the nursing home (funded by Japan) and the young people moving back at their own
• , either to find their roots, or for economic reasons,--> at the need to return to their heritage and the economic incentives offered by South Korea's more affluent economy. A ref after this would be nice.
  • Again, it was the Sakhalin Times article, or I wouldn't have written this in the first place. They appear to have redone their content management system and broken all the refs to them. I will try to find it but they've renumbered all their files. Aargh. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• as of 2005 Maybe link to article 2005 is not so necessary.... actually might confuse the readers.
  • There's a scheme of marking "as of x" to aid in tracking data points that need to be updated. Presumably someone, somewhere on Wikipedia actually monitors these things. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• difficulties befriending --> difficulties in befriending
• that the latter looked down i don' think the word "latter" applies here, b/c we don't make a 2-content list.
  • "they looked down on them" would be even more confusing ---- who's the subject, and who's the object? cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• roughly 7,000 are first-generation, with the other 36,000 being locally-born. --> roughly 7,000 are first-generation, and the rest are locally born. Statement of the obvious? Actually, I'm really confused on what this is saying. Does "first-generation" mean that they are from South Korea?
• They are a highly urbanized population RM population here.
• half live in the administrative center of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, making them nearly 12% of the city's population. --> half of the Koreans in Sakhalin live in the administrative center of Yuzhno-Sakhalinsk, constituting nearly 12% of the city's population.
  • put as "where Koreans constitute nearly 12% of the population" to avoid any "Empire State Building walking down the street" issues (and also because I've overused that particular sentence structure enough =)). cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• making ethnic Koreans an increasing proportion of the population --> allowing the ethnic Koreans to get hold of a larger proportion of the population
  • Get hold of? As in to obtain, steal, or kidnap them? =) Leaving as is. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• that they might become a majority of the island's population, and seek an autonomous republic or even independence. --> that they might become a majority in the island and seek independence
  • Autonomous republic is a specific legal term within the context of Russia; see Republics of Russia. The source here (Literaturnaya Gazeta) specifically mentioned it, so I put it in. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• However, with the economic rise in the region and the integration of younger Koreans into Sakhalin society, more than 95% of Koreans have so far opted to stay in Sakhalin or move to the Russian Far East rather than leave for South Korea, as they have come to consider Sakhalin and Russia their home. --> However, the rise of the regional economy and the cultural assimilation of the younger generations reduced the percentage of those who opt to leave to South Korea to 95%.
  • The second half completely inverts the sense. "reduced the percentage of those who opt to leave to X" means that X next percentage you state is "the percentage of those who opt to leave" cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• Those who remain have still benefitted from increased trade with South Korea, using their family connections to make business contacts in South Korea and import foodstuffs and other products, and they are reported to be economically better-off than the average resident of Sakhalin. The Sakhalin Koreans' family connections in South Korea have benefited them with easier access to South Korean businesss and imports; economic activities with South Korea have brought the Sakhalin Koreans a better economic standing than the average residents of Sakhalin.
• or relocated there --> or have relocated to there
• Korean surnames, when Cyrillized, may be spelled and pronounced slightly different from the romanisations used in the US and the resulting common pronunciations, as can be seen in the table at right This sentence is grammatically incorrect. I can't fix it b/c I'm not quite sure on what you're trying to deliver.
  • Subject VERB1 and VERB2 adjective OBJECT1 of VERB1 and OBJECT2 of VERB2. For clarity, put as "Korean surnames, when Cyrillized, may be spelled slightly differently from the romanisations used in the US; the resulting common pronunciations also differ, as can be seen in the table at right." The semantics of "being spelled differently from a romanisation" can be quibbled about, of course. Open to further suggestions. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• Virtually all of the oldest generation of Sakhalin Korean have and use Korean names in everyday life --> While most of the older generations of Sakhalin Koreans had used Korean names, the younger generations that have assimilated into the Russian culture have neglected their Korean names in favor of the Russian names.
  • "Neglected" seems to present a value judgment, c.f. "neglecting your children", "neglecting your duty", "negligence", etc. (and I'm not sure you can neglect a name). Put it as "favor their Russian names". cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• to South Korean media Add "the"
  • "Media" in the general sense means music, etc. "The media" sounds like a gaggle of reporters. Put it as "pop culture" for clarity. cab 03:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
• some younger Koreans have named their children --> Koreans--> Korean couples? Add "the" before "characters".
• In addition to Korean names, the oldest generation of Sakhalin Koreans are often legally registered under Japanese names --> Since the oldest generations of Sakhalin Koreans had used Japanese names for legal registration, due to the sōshi-kaimei policy of the Japanese colonial era, the Soviet authorities conducted name registration for the Sakhalin Koreans on the basis of the Japanese identity documents issued by the Karafuto government; as of 2006, the Russian government refuses re-registration of the Sakhalin Koreans under Korean names.
  • Put

• expectation that they would one day be allowed to return to Korea --> with the open possibility that they could return to Korea
• the Sakhalin Koreans kept --> have kept
• but instead is descended from Jeolla--> but is instead
• As result of the diplomatic situation--> "as a result"
• other formal occasions--> "other public programs"
• Seoul dialect--> Seoul dialect of South Korea.

Content

Done

• The introduction's thesis statement does not clarify who they are. Ok, they're from those 2 provinces. But where did they go to? Where do they live now? Any distinctive characteristic?
  • Not really sure how to say it more clearly. They're the descendants of the Koreans who were imported to Sakhalin and trapped there at the close of WWII. cab 00:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
• the southern half of Sakhalin... where? "Sakhalin in Russia"? I don't even get to find out that Sakhalin's an island until 1/4th way down.
  • Clarified as "Sakhalin Island"; the problem, of course, is that Sakhalin/Karafuto/Kuye kept changing administration between 1905 and 1945. I haven't even figured out how to work this in. cab 00:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
• The Red Army invaded Karafuto days They reclaimed the land, right? "invaded" implies taking a territory that wasn't theirs to begin with.
  • The whole of Sakhalin was ceded to Japan following the Russo-Japanese war (see Treaty of Portsmouth); Japan voluntarily returned the northern half of it to the Soviet Union in 1920; however, Japan's jurisdiction over the southern half continued to be internationally recognised, so it wasn't really a reclamation. cab 00:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
• the turning point came in 1985 Was there a civil rights movement? "Turning point" could make people misunderstand...
  • Rephrased as "their chance to return home". cab 00:41, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
• Why should the Soviets be wary of the independence movement? I know it caused some harms to the Soviets...
• the political situation... Could you clarify on what political situation this could be? (I know it's obvious)
• Stalin also reportedly blocked their departure because he wanted to retain them as coal miners in Sakhalin.... "It is also reported that Stalin blocked"?
• For years, the Sakhalin Koreans were a stateless people forced to stay in Sakhalin. Let's move this down to the paragraph below & combine it with the sentence about how the Koreans there set up schools for Koreans, etc.
• You keep using the term "saram" which means "person" in Korean, but readers won't know that, even if you explain it in the introductory paragraph.
• even setting up Juche study groups and other educational facilities for them... Were they asking Russia to set up these institutions or did they set them up themselves? (If this is the latter, use ";" & then start a new paragraph.)
• the situation of the Sakhalin Koreans began to improve. Situations regarding what?

Done 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Rei Mihara, a Tokyo housewife... housewife as a job or as a role in family? If it's the first, could you specify for which family Rei Mihara-san lived, & for the ladder, could you change it to "a wife of xxx in Tokyo"
  • Could you specify when she formed the initiative?
    • Source does not specify and I'm having trouble finding further information. Why exactly is her husband important here? cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• an exhibition hall. What would the hall exhibit?
  • • Maybe commercial purpose exhibition hall? cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• On October 28, 2006, a Korean student from the Sakhalin State University placed second in the All-CIS Japanese Language Students Competition.[28] This is WP:OR. You used a primary source to make a theory. Rather, you need a source that says that Sakhalin Koreans excel in Japanese.
  • I didn't state any such theory. cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• South Korea and Japan jointly funded the building of a nursing home in Ansan, a suburb of Seoul For what purpose?

• 1,544 Koreans had settled --> Sakhalin Koreans?
• 14,122 are you sure this is that much?

• in the international tenders --> international bid?
  • Tenders is the standard terminology
• develop the Sakhalin Shelf located where? (is this something like oil reserve?)
  • Continental shelf
• works contracts, as they are interested in the potential supply of liquefied natural gas. how are the two related?
  • Rephrased as "participate in the international tenders for works contracts to develop the Sakhalin Shelf" cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• several active churches rm "active"
• South Koreans comprise the majority of international students at the Sakhalin State University. Is Sakhalin State University the only university in Sakhalin? To make an implication that South Koreans make up the majority of the international student body @ universities across Sakhalin would be WP:OR.
  • Again, this is precisely what the source says. But as far as I know, it is the only university on Sakhalin; not sure about colleges. cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• analogous to Japan's Mindan Describe what "Mindan" is.
  • A pro-South Korean ethnic representative body in Japan, which is what the sentence says. I'm really not sure what else I can say to clarify this. cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• some Korean foreign students in Sakhalin Korean foreign students from Sakhalin? South Korean students who visited Sakhalin?
  • foreign students from both North and South Korea studying in Sakhalin. Clarified.
• In the late 1980s, suspicions against the Sakhalin Koreans remained. Could you move this down to a sentence or two after? This is all too random & the readers don't get to find out why this is significant until then.
• Around thirty percent of Sakhalin’s thirty thousand Koreans still have not taken Russian citizenship. This section doesn't really fit with all the blessings about the economic wellbeing of Sakhalin Koreans. How about moving this section up? Also, I don't think switch b/w 30 & thirty is consistent. Use numbers?
• Furthermore, unlike ethnic Russians or other local minority groups, Sakhalin Koreans are exempted from conscription, but there have been calls for this exemption to be terminated. This is totally unrelated. This should go somewhere else, a new paragraph should be made, or the current paragraph's structure must be revised. Add "the" b/w "unlike" and "ethnic". Change "or" to "and". --> "but there have been calls to terminate this exemption". Always use active rather than passive.
• inter-ethnic resentment b/w the Sakhalin Koreans & the Russians? Also, I think that this could be seen as being too abrupt. Changing the organization of the entire paragraph might lessen this "surprise".
  • Reorganised. Put the information on ethnic relations in one paragraph and all the other stuff in another one. This is kind of an artifact of the section being originally called "Modern status" or something (these kinds of time-dependent names being deprecated by the MOS); no where else to really put this information.
• Due to their greater population density ...hmm... is this supposed to imply something?
  • Huh? cab 01:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Not yet done

• That they speak more fluent Korean than those deported to Central Asia... there's no link between their fluency & their soujourner.
• All the examples of radio, tv broadcasts... they don't make a link on why they keep this soujourner mentality. Too abrupt. Reword it to something better.
• Explain that Koryo mar is descended from Hanxxx dialect.

(Wikimachine 16:46, 25 March 2007 (UTC))

Done 01:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

• Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, there has been significant growth in religious activities among the Sakhalin Koreans. I think you're trying to convey the implication that there was little religious activity before the Soviet occupation or before the Japanese occupation, etc.? Koreans traditionally had religion tied into their culture, but you really mean western religions, right? Additionally, you need a ref for this statement. You have refs supporting individual examples, but, again, you're shaping your own thesis out of those examples & that qualifies under WP:OR. You don't even have to say that there was growth. Just talk about the religious activities.
  • The Soviet Union was officially atheist. The sentence states that compared to the Soviet period, there's now much more religious activity. I'm not aware of any research about religion during the period of Japanese rule, which is why I don't discuss it in that section at all. cab 01:57, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
• written by popular South Korean pastor Jaerock Lee.--> "by the popular"
• content through Sakhalin Korean Broadcasting --> add the after "through"
• Sakhalin Korean Broadcasting; the Korean Baptist Church sponsors a journalist there. --> "at which a church called The Korean Baptist Church sponsors a journalist."
• Correction: However, large-scale religious events can be subjected to restriction by the government authorities: in June 1998 the local Russian Orthodox Church and the regional administration of Sakhalin successfully pressured the Korean Presbyterian missionaries to cancel a conference of more than 100 Presbyterian and other Protestant missionaries from areas of the former Soviet Union.
• Correction: That the Sakhalin Koreans enjoy Korean pop music less than the Koryo-saram in Kazakhstan shows that no correlation exists between language fluency and music preference. Also, like I said in Contents, explain who Koryo saram are. Additionally, this statement should be somewhere down in the paragraph. Jumping to conclusion too early, & this statement gets me nowhere because, "so what if they enjoy less pop song than Koryo-saram? Do they listen less pop song than most Korean communities in foreign countries?" We might even delete this sentence.

• Start the paragraph with "A significant one third of the Sakhalin population enjoys traditional Korean music - far higher than that of any other ethnic Korean communities surveyed."

• study of traditional Korean musical instruments has also been increasing in popularity, not just limited to the older generation--> Get rid of "aside from listening". Study of traditional Korean musical instruments has been gaining popularity across all generations.

• Let me add that this paragraph is not that fluent. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikimachine (talk • contribs) 03:42, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Note on GA

GA on hold's are supposed to be fixed w/i 7 days or something like that. We're past the deadline. Oh well. Just to let you know, we ought to get these fixed as soon as possible. Additionally, you seem to be confident in grammar yourself. You could proceed on fixing the remaining 3 paragraphs yourself. (Wikimachine 03:52, 25 March 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for all your effort and sorry for the delay; was away for the weekend. Hoping to get the rest of these finished over the next day or two. Though technically, the on-hold template isn't supposed to go on until the review is finished. Cheers, cab 03:29, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

GA Pass

Congradulations everyone for making this article a GA! I see that there can be a little room for further improvements, and 3~4 recommendations have not been carried out yet. However the state that this article is in right now is good enough to be a GA & I'm guessing that the major contributors to this article, including CaliforniaAliBaba, would go on to fix them very soon. (Wikimachine 02:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC))

Thanks for all your effort and patience in untwisting my grammar and content problems! As pointed out above, going forward the obvious targets for improvement are in the "Music" and "Religion" sections, as well as trying to figure out more about the sympathetic movements in Japan and S. Korea ("Attention from the outside world") rather than the cursory overview it has now. cab 10:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

"related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 16:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

This might be of interest to you guys here. http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2879797

(Wikimachine 03:13, 28 August 2007 (UTC))

GA Sweeps Review: Pass

As part of the WikiProject Good Articles, we're doing sweeps to go over all of the current GAs and see if they still meet the GA criteria. I'm specifically going over all of the "Culture and Society" articles. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. I have made several minor corrections throughout the article. Altogether the article is well-written and is still in great shape after its passing in 2007. Continue to improve the article making sure all new information is properly sourced and neutral. It would also be beneficial to go through the article and update all of the access dates of the inline citations and fix any dead links. If you can, see if more images can be added to the article. If you have any questions, let me know on my talk page and I'll get back to you as soon as I can. I have updated the article history to reflect this review. Happy editing! --Nehrams2020 (talk) 04:11, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Japanese occupation of Korea

I thought the occupation period ended in 1910.