Talk:Slaughterhouse

Why were links to Slaughterhouse Investigations Removed?

There have been numerous slaughterhouse investigations over the past several years. I think these are highly relevant and should be re-included.

Split

This needs to be split out into modern slaughterhouses, and historical info. Mark Richards 18:43, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

intro

I removed the phrase Most horse slaughter is done in Europe until it can be supported by a citation. Una Smith 02:32, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Delhi slaughterhouse

Moved link added by an anon to here

To read more on work being done on the slaughterhouse in Delhi, India:

Visit http://blog.sarai.net/users/ritika

Initially it doesn't look promising, but about a page down there is a significant amount of information relating to Delhi's main slaughterhouse. Its a bit POV, but also has an international perspective, so somebody could probably extract some useful details for the article. -- Solipsist 09:13, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

PETA link removal

Hi

Sorry, I made a cut instead of a copy. Glad you noticed it and fixed it. Reply to David Latapie 17:18, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

warning

shouldn't there be a warning disclaimer before the process section if it so disturbing to know how animals are slaughtered, like for example:warning:the following may include disturbing unpleasant details on the slaughter of an animal.

That might make a little sense, but why would anyone look at the slaughterhouse page if they didn't want to know about slaughterhouses? Tekana (O.o) Talk 09:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Exactly. The title of the section is "Slaughterhouse", not "pink bunny petting zoo". Jake b 05:41, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, it is offical policy that Wp:not#Wikipedia_is_not_censored. I think the article requires more pictures of abattoirs, pictures that show what they are like inside and how the animals are processed. If someone comes the the "Slaughterhouse" article and is easily offended, they can 'turn off images' in their webbrowser. Ashmoo 04:46, 30 May 2006 (UTC)+

Is there a page about and linking to those slaughterhouse videos where the cows were left to die in a pool of their own and other cows blood with their trachea hanging out while an employee kicked blood on its face? Ok, maybe that's too specific but I think it is common knowledge that slaughterhouse conditions are disgusting and inhumane. I would like to know more about it and see if anyone else has been able to sneak in and get real footage? 19:12, 18 February 2008 (UTC) The big Cowhuna —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.228.52.221 (talk)

Neutral?

I noticed one particular phrase and a friend of mine pointed it out.

"In their turn, most slaughterhouses are secretive to avoid controversy."

they follow strict USDA regulation by the federal government and are not "secrective" at all. Its just that the general public isn't allowed access just like any other corporate enterprise would deny you access into their establishment because you have no business there.

KerryJones 22:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

You are probably right. I thought that might have been my wording following a big POV cleanup last Novemeber. There had been some stronger statements in there before, and it looks like the phrase has been subsequently strengthened again to 'secretive' by someone else.

Ideally you want a phrasing that suggests that abatoirs are happy to be ignored. Its not really true that all corporate enterprises are equally secretive. There's a spectrum. If you were a journalist and said you wanted to do a piece about them, most companies would be happy to show you around. Some might have industrial secrets or health and safety concerns and not want to show you sensitive parts of the factory, but they would still welcome the free publicity.

I suspect the opposite is the case with most abatoirs — they are not customer facing businesses and would have little to gain from the publicity. It is certainly possible to visit them, but my guess would be you would have to work harder to pursuade them that you weren't a threat. -- Solipsist 12:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

There are many video documentaries about slaughterhouses, butcher shops and meat processing companies. Discovery channel has an excellent one and I've seen at least three others. There are some very real reasons why they may not invite unknown people in such as sanitation issues (you want your meat to be kept clean), the time it takes to give tours and the very real threat from animal rights activists. -- pubwvj 8:47, 14 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.134.45.190 (talk)

Disturbing? The truth about what people eat should be available in detail for all to see. The habit of hiding the gory details of the meat industry is ethically suspect. Children should know that a "hot dog" is actually made of shredded pieces of dead animal. Why not? It's the truth, after all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.208.237.231 (talk) 11:54, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Neutral?

well there are many places in which the public is never to view for an example a gas company wouldn't allow you to go around their factility or nuclear power plant. I know quite a few companies who don't allow public access to their factility. I'm pretty sure if I wanted to do a documentary on a Slaughterhouse there are companies out there who would gladly show me around.

I've seen a dairy farm where they showed the device that attaches to the utters and milk the cow.

Hmmm, well actually, until recently my local nuclear power plant, Sizewell B in Suffolk, had a visitors centre. They were really quite keen to get people to come and have a look at the plant and try and counter the general public's negative perception of nuclear power — they even advertised on TV for a while. Unfortunately the visitors centre was closed down a couple of years ago due to increasing fears over the possibility of a terrorist bombing (see BBC news story). Now you can't get withing ten miles of the place. -- Solipsist 18:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

the point being that not all of them don't want to avoid conversty, its just a place that really isn't suitable for people visiting. I doubt a slaughterhouse would setup a visitor centre. 172.139.245.160 22:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

When I was a fairly young kid (maybe twelve or so), I was taken to a sausage factory (which I believe killed pigs as well) on a school field trip. While we were shown around quite a bit of the plant, we did not see any animals or any meat or really anything to indicate what really happened there. Just pointing this out as a statement of fact. Draw your own conclusions. Or if you really want to know, call up your local kill place and ask if they do tours, and if so what they show. Epastore 02:18, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think this article is at all NPOV. We raise sheep, we live down the road from a former slaughterhouse, so I have some experience of them. Obviously the ethical concerns involved are important to the article, but I don't think they should appear in the introduction. (Ethan Mitchell, Feb 25, 2006)

The article is about Slaughterhouses, not the ethics of meat eating. That discussion has no place here. Jake b 05:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Ethical concerns are of great importance to this article. Although Ethics of Eating Meat is the main place for the discussion, slaughterhouses are pretty central to the issue, and this article should include some discussion of ethics and the treatment of animals in slaughterhouses. Saluton 02:39, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Minor correction on some stuff here

1st let me chime in on the secretive stuff. The slaughter plants are pretty nasty. There is no way you would want to visit them. When I drove a truck I had the unfortunate experience of having to spend the night parked at one in Dodge City KS. It's about 1 mile from the other (there are 2 there). The smell is so bad that just being outside can make you nauseous. Inside, God help you. I have also slaughtered more than my fair share of cattle, pigs and sheep. I was an ag major and we had a class that we simply called "Slaughter class". Guess what we did. I hated that class and thus didn;t go much. Bad plan. I took it 3 times. Anyway, these places are nasty not to mention too dangerous to have visitors shuttle through. Besides, if a visitor were to accindentally loose something like a pen, that would shut down the plant for hours while they looked for it. Forein matter in the food is a big deal.

Anyway, some comments on the article.

• It would be good to note that live inspection is always done by a veterinarian. Also, the USDA has decided not to allow the slaughter of downer cattle. I'm not so sure about pigs and sheep but I assume this also applies to them.
• The inspection and grading of the carcas are two separate issues. Every carcas must be inspected. It need not be done by Federal inspectors. If the meat is not to be offered for sale outside of the state in which it is slaughtered, it can be inspected by a state dept of ag inspector. Many states simply choose not to offer this service in which case it would be done by a federal inspector.
• The grading of a beef or sheep is voluntary. As the slaughter house pays for each carcass graded, they only send those that are sure to be graded select or better to be graded. Who cares if that old cow graded "Cutter".

In the history section, it might be nice to mention the move to boxed beef, and the laws that were enacted as a result of The Jungle. Also, how refirgeration led to the move to large packing plants.

Just my 2 cents worth. matt

Pork Plant Clarification (FYI)

To answer a previous question, the USDA does allow downer pigs to be slaughtered.

Also, regarding design considerations... There have been some recent changes in design concepts for the movement of pigs into stunning systems. New designs have eliminated single-file corrals and have instead implemented a type of 'batch processing' method which moves small groups (about 8 for CO2 stunning--depends on machine design) of pig into the stunning area. This greatly reduces the stress level of the animal before stunning. We also eliminated prods and now use an automated herding system. I have seen the new Butina dual backloaders in action (CO2 stunning system) and it is much better than the old single-file system we replaced. In fact, to effectively pass an animal stress audit, you about have to eliminate single-file herding and prodding.

AC

Etymology

The OD of Etymology doesn't corroborate the etymology offered for "Shambles," and the point of the passage seems to be to editorialize about slaughter, not to provide useful information. I cut it. (Ethan Mitchell, Feb 25, 2006)

Ritual Slaughtering (Kosher)

I didn't see anything on Kosher slaughtering, and I think there are some similar Islamic procedures about such things. Should there be any mention or linkage to relevant articles? Jake b 05:45, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

There are links to Kosher and Halal under the "Slaughterhouse process" section. I have edited the links to point them to the section discussing slaughering method. Under "International variation", there is also mention of halal and kashrut laws requiring animals to be slaughtered when conscious, hence no stunning before killing. --Dodo bird 08:37, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey If anybody lives in or near Smithfield, Virgina then can that person tell me If the largest slaughterhouse in the world is open to the public, I would love to visit it.

Why not make a list of the major slaughterhouses of the world —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.153.204.25 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 25 August 2006.

Humane Slaughter Act "unenforceable"?

In the United States, there is the Humane Slaughter Act of 1958, an unenforceable declaration of policy requiring that animals be stunned before killing.

"unenforceable" doesn't seem like the right word here. It suggests that the law cannot be enforced. Humane Slaughter Act doesn't seem to support that assertion. Perhaps "poorly enforced" or "unenforced" would be more appropriate. (Note: I have no opinion and no information on the enforcement status of this law; my interest here is in consistently reporting that status, whatever it might be construed to be.)

Jordan Brown 05:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Major slaughterhouses section

I moved all the discussion of big slautherhouses into a new section to keep it all together. I don't know how it ought to be structured, but what's there now isn't very good.

It might be interesting to expand it by listing the types of animals handled at each facility.

Jordan Brown 23:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

I am an animal lover and strongly believe that your web site is stupid any one whoever thinks about hurting an animal should suffer the painful death but someone who dose should die in the most painful way possible like the animals do anyone who works at a slaguhterhouse and perticipates in the senseless murder of animals should die and go to hell suffering the way animals do!I am a vegetairian meat is stupid let the animals be free and happy and die the way God wants them to.and for cows that have to be milked let kind farmers have them to be cared for properly

That's all fine and good, but this is an encyclopedia and not a repository of your insane opinions or your emotions and angst, no matter how poorly written they are. --Heterodyne (talk) 13:59, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

POV and other stuff

I removed the word "mortifying" from the description of the slaughter prcedure and I am also doubting the use of an iron rod in the description of iserting a rod into the anus of the animal. Wouldnt any iron tool of this job begin to rust? I am unsure though as to the fact of this procedure...--69.151.38.40 02:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Misleading Descriptions

"Animals are usually made unconscious by stunning or "knocking" using various methods including the use of a captive bolt pistol or applying an electric shock to the animal's head."

The problem is that this method (as well as the others listed) do not render the animal "unconscious," they actually kill the animal. For some reason, this wording seems like a subtle way to push a POV, or give the article a less controversial tone. That aside, we need to be down-right technical -- "unconscious" and "death" cannot be used interchangably.

This can be somewhat debated, because death is not gauranteed. While captive bolts were designed with the intention of simply stunning the animal and destroying central nerves, it often results in death. 74.242.99.231 22:29, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Small Text== NPOV of Design == There may or may not be other parts of this article that are not neutral, but I don't find the section regarding "design" to lack a NPOV. Agree? Disagree? If there is no disagreement I will proceed to remove the template. I did add the citation template to it, however, as it only had one source that didn't verify the information. Andrew Nutter (talk) 20:17, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Dear fellow Wikian,

Sorry but i unfortunately disagree strongly. This whole section should be reduced here to a mere mention and then given it's own seperate article about the good Dr's works and involvement in 54% of US facilities. For one thing the Wikipedia is not an 'American only' works domain (although sadly it often seems so in the english version anyway) it is supposed to be a global repository of knowledge and, furthermore, it just takes up space that, let's be honest, should be devoted to the workings of slaughterhouses. NOT this completely unscientific and unproven (other than anecdotely) approach to 'decor'! After reading this article i still don't know any more about the processes involved in the food i eat than i did before. That almost NEVER happens in Wikipedia, and indeed if it does is always a big warning sign in my eyes that something's gone seriously wrong in an article big time!

Outofthewoods (talk) 21:53, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Who created this article P.E.T.A.???

this article is most certainly not npov. 3/4 of the article consist of rants about inhumane slaughter methods and the likes. there needs to be an organized and npov controversy section not sloppy rants scattered thoughout the article.

on a different note the design section needs to be either completely redone or deleted altoghether. it is more of an endorsement of dr.grandin than anything else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.206.127.145 (talk) 19:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Yeah tell me about it, I came here looking for factual information about US slaughterhouses and I find wacked out qoutes like "we hook them by their bunghole". PETA wrote this article straight from their anti-meat campaign. 68.111.246.29 (talk) 16:54, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

History of Slaughterhouses

I find the opening statement about slaughterhouses only occuring once population centres appeared as a nonsense. My family had an extremely remote farm high in the alps of western Europe that dates back continuously in our family to the 12th century. The first road to the farmhouse that allowed access by car (instead of oxen through the forest) was not laid down til the 1970s and electrification followed not long after, and yet it had a slaughterhouse. This was exclusively used for the procurement of meat from animals reared on the farm, or occasionaly hunted, and was usually purely for normal day to day family consumption (admittedly fresh produce was often shared or traded with neighbours and friends who made the trek through the pine forest surrounding the mountain on all sides, but this had nothing to do with why they had a seperate building for the slaughter of their animals of various kinds).

They also had a smokehouse and a grainshed and a cidercellar, a bakery a kitchen a rootcellar, an apple and pearcellar as well as a woodshed. I show this only to highlight the separation of tasks and their assignment of them to distinct areas as predating large centres of civilization. Moreover, i am quite certain any theory stating otherwise would appear to be seriously flawed.

If no one objects, i will be glad to make the appropriate changes as soon as seems appropriate to address this, or perhaps the original author might like to consider doing so in light of my concerns.

Also, although i agree that this is a very VERY passionate subject to many folk on both sides of the debate (ie. omnivours and the various opposing individuals and groups), i think the article has suffered badly because of this tension. Furthermore, it feels to me like too many cuts and changes have been made, by a variety of folk, to the complete detrimet of the article as a whole.

I also agree with the previous author in the discussion who suggests a seperate section should be given to the negative aspects and feelings expressed by an obvious variety of individuals. The article has reached a stage where it needs a concise cleaning and restoration to make it a factual, informative and concise piece first and foremost. Individual and political attitudes always need expressing or we as humanity would have never progressed but, and this is extremely important, this needs to be contained in context. Sadly, i feel much of those viewpoints have been diluted and have lost their punch by being scattered.

After all, this is an encyclopedia and not a forum of debate. When looking up any topic about a process, one needs to learn about the process and the various steps involved in how the process is undertaken, NOT the attitudes and individual beliefs of certain passionate, idealistic and i'm sure good and sincere people. Indeed, the internet has allowed for more individuals and places to debate and discuss matters than could EVER before have even been dreamt of in all of history. Whereas Wikipedia, in stark contrast, is the exact opposite and is at this stage at any rate a very rare, very precious and unique entity born of good will.

To me personally it provides hope for the future and a glimpse of the direction perhaps if everything goes well and just so, things might just maybe be possible for the human race to evolve. So let's please make sure our Wikipedia doesn't just become another blog site or another chat room. Surely there are enough of them already.

Wikipedia articles are NEVER the place for pet peevs, grindstones or propaganda. They are, i wholeheartedly believe, the most noble endeavor ever undertaken by the human race. After all, the ancient library of Alexandria was the knowledge repository of the kings often forcibly procured; Wikipedia is the knowledge repository of people everywhere, freely given and shared by all!

Much love, peace and the kindest regards to all, Outofthewoods (talk) 19:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC) SLAUGHETERHOUSES ARE CRUEL AND THEY SUCK —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.193.32 (talk) 18:16, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

slaughter houses people think they are sick but we ave to eat just think if there was not slaughter houses we would have to hunt and kill animals our selfes to eat {{{}}}}}}

Or--you could be a vegetarian! Duh! --Wolfcm (talk) 19:28, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Number of slaughterhouses in the US

While researching some of the information stated in the film Food, Inc. I ran across this statement "Did you know there are only 13 slaughterhouses in the US?" [1] Yet the second paragragh in this article says there are 5,700 slaughterhouses in the US. Seems like a big discrepancy. So which is correct? 68.111.246.29 (talk) 17:06, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

• Getafilm.blogspot.com is not a peer-reviewed, neutral, good source; it's just some schmoe with a blog who likes movies. Who knows where they got that "13 slaughterhouses" statistic from? I certainly wouldn't rely on it myself. But notice: The sentence in this Wiki article does not say "5,700 slaughterhouses." It says "5,700 slaughterhouses and processing plants" (emphasis mine). Notice, too, that the source in the article (Why Animals Matter) is not necessarily neutral. The book's complete title is Why Animals Matter: The Case for Animal Protection (one possible source of bias) and one of the authors (Erin E. Williams) works for The Humane Society of the United States (another possible source of bias). Although the publisher (Prometheus Books) is unbiased, the book's general outlook and at least one author is not. Note, too, that we don't know if the book itself cited any reports, government statistics, etc. Was it a statistic pulled out of thin air? A guess? We don't know. I did three minutes of searching: USA Today said in February 2008 there were at least 900 slaughterhouses in the U.S. (although the way the article phrased it is not definitive that that is all the slaughterhouses there are in the U.S.).[2] CNN reported in March 2008 there were about 800 cattle slaughterhouses (not specifying how many chicken, turkey, horse, swine, sheep, turkey, etc. slaughterhouses there were).[3] And I didn't even begin to search the USDA Web site.[4] These numbers aren't hard to find. Just spend some time looking for them, if you think the article is wrong. And remember: Everyone can edit. Be bold! Cite your sources. When there is conflict, cite both claims and note in the article that sources differ as to facts. - Tim1965 (talk) 02:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

1100 hogs slaughtered by one worker, PER HOUR???

This in 3600 *seconds* in said hour... Or ~9000 per day, 180 000 per month, and 2 000 000 per year. Sounds somewhat unlikely. Aadieu (talk) 11:03, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Is there a review on Eisnitz book? I see it is often used as a source, but I don't know how reputable it is. I thought Inspectors had to be on the floor to check not only the carcasses and heads but also to check for humane slaughter. 70.171.207.217 (talk) 19:26, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

---

How is the USDA opposed to the Humane Slaughter Act? And are there no penalties? Can someone please cite government source for this? otherwise this should be removed.

"The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) is opposed to the Humane Slaughter Act, and violations of the Act carry no penalties." —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZgokE (talk • contribs) 10:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Move `radical environmentalist' view to new section

This should be moved out of the lead and into its own section:

``However, more radical environmentalists consider domesticated animals to be “goofies”[7] or “freaks” of nature...

--Wolfcm (talk) 19:23, 9 November 2009 (UTC)