Talk:Batman

Batman Creation

According to Book and Magazine Collector Monthly (no 246) Bob Kane got the idea of 'the Batman' over a weekend, inspired by Da Vinci's drawings of bats as well as the films listed and then called in his old schoolfried Bill Finger for help. It also states he would have been called a costumed adventurer, not a superhero, that had yet to be coined (obviously it is not worth replacing all references to the word superhero and changing it to costumed adventurer). Detective Comics #27 was edited by Vin Sullivan. 89.242.157.137 (talk) 18:41, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Influences

I see influences such as the Shadow and Zorro named as inspirations for Batman (which quite obviously they were) but I believe there is another earlier influence which always seems to go unnoticed and which I believe should be mentioned and that is the similarities Batman has in both his original story and in most later film adaptations with Alexander Dumas’ the Count of Monte Cristo. Let me make my case.

Monte Cristo’s and Batman’s similarities.

1.The vow of revenge against the people who have wronged them and it is their primary motivation for what they do. The desire for Vengeance is mentioned in most Batman films in live action and animated forms. In the 1995 film Batman Forever it is stated that Batman believes revenge has become his whole life.

2.The dawning of a darker alter ego with unwavering convictions as to what they want to do. They both dress in black with capes.

3.They are both able to use an almost unlimited supply of money and resources towards their goals. They both also live in Mansions in large cities.

4.The use of allies/sidekicks. Batman has numerous people under him he can depend on for help and with similar goals to his. Alfred, Robin, Batgirl, Batwoman, Nightwing, and Lucius Fox. The Count of Monte Cristo had Luigi Vampa, Jacopo, Ali, Baptistin, Bertuccio, Benedetto and Princess Haydee all with their own helpful skills to assist him and with similar goals.

5.Detective skills. Monte Cristo and Batman both use intelligence and cunning to destroy their enemies.

6.Monte Cristo has an underground hideout/headquarters in a cave underneath the island of Monte Cristo which in some respects seems similar to the Batcave.

7.The training and refining of Bruce Wayne in Batman Begins (2005) by Ducard is also similar to the training Dantes receives from Abbe Faria. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.68.27.26 (talk) 09:16, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

The Phantom

The Phantom's obvious influence on Batman needs to be mentioned somewhere in the article. It's obvious that Kane and/or Finger lifted Batman's white eyes with no pupils straight from Lee Falk's character, and such it needs to be recognized. It is detailly described in the Phantom article how Falk got the idea for his hero having no visible eyes behind his mask, and Batman, and countless other superheroes, took this straight from "The Ghost Who Walks". --Kit Walker (talk) 08:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

• Have you got a reliable source for the info? Hiding T 09:43, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, there are several reliable sources on how Falk came up with the idea of the white eyes from observing Greek busts, which usually did not have visible pupils. One of the best sources is an interview with Falk in the documentary "The Phantom: Comic Strip Crusader", which aired on A&E in 1996. I think it really warrants a brief mention in the Batman article under the "Creation" section if the likes of Doc Savage and The Shadow can get one simply by being "master sleuths and scientists"... It's obvious Batman as a character would look different if it wasn't for the Phantom. --Kit Walker (talk) 13:51, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

This sounds very OR and soap boxy to me. Did Kane mention an influence in his autobiography? He'd acknowledged Zorro and the silent movie The Bat, to my knowledge, but I don't believe the Phantom. Should be easy enough to check if someone has a copy of the book. --Tenebrae (talk) 18:52, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

The Bill Finger article offers what appears to be a reliable source for the Phantom's influence on Batman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Finger#cite_note-9 --Kit Walker (talk) 23:06, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

I guess one could just port over that sentence with the attached cites as written. -- Tenebrae (talk) 00:37, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Split into two articles

As I was just at the fictional history of Dick Grayson page and it was nominated for deletion and the result was keep. Here this is Batman worlds finest he has a long history and I have a feeling we should split this article off into two articles.

Fictional History of Batman (Like the fictional history of Dick Grayson Page)

Batman (Includes all information except the biography which will be incorperated into the page above)

This is just a thought. --Schmeater (talk) 18:28, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

• I'm not convinced that teh Dick Grayson article won;t be merged back, that seems to be a strong possibility, and a number of such articles have already been deleted this year so I think there's no clear consensus. I would advise against a split. This is a featured article. Hiding T 18:50, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Agreed. Besides, the fictional history section really doesn't seem that long. The only way it looks long is if you combine the publication history with it, and considering the fictional history and publication history are two completely different things, I really don't think it's an issue right now. Anakinjmt (talk) 19:55, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

This underlines a problem with the article and it won't be fixed by splitting, as the split article would violate WP:WAF and be a prime target for deletion or cutting back and being merged back here in a different form.

The problem is that the FCB section isn't, or at least shouldn't be. As the introduction makes clear it is about his origin and the way his biography has been presented and changed. As such it is out-of-universe and a solid well-focused section. However, it should be called "origin" and trimmed down, as being called FCB seems to have led people to tag on in-universe elements (especially on the end, when it really should be reworded and added to PH, if at all). This is similar to Superman#Comic book character, which combines the origin and characterisation (which makes sense as the origin of Batman does partly help define his character). As it stands it could easily drag the article down and fail a FAR. I'd suggest hacking it right back and then renaming the section or reworking it with the characterisation section so it looks at his origin and characterisation. Just not a split. (Emperor (talk) 04:55, 3 November 2009 (UTC))

More than one Batman

Is there a listing for the 'other' sort of batman, namely an orderly in the British army? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kobold123 (talk • contribs) 05:04, 6 November 2009 (UTC) yeah a siptedrrte —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.80.15.184 (talk) 04:39, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

"Batman" vs "The Batman"

The first words in the article are "The Batman", yet it's about the only time in the article the phrase is used to refer to the character. The most common way to refer to the character is by far "Batman". Like, 99.9% of the time this is what he's called. The opening should reflect this. Any opposing views? ArtistScientist (talk) 14:56, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

• We tend to introduce alternate names straight away. That's just how it is done. It isn't any more of a deal than that and has nothing to do with percentages, it's just the way we do it, like, 99.9% of the time. It's like how we always expand an abbreviation on the first instance. It's the way you do it in an encycloipedia. It isn't done to give special prominence or anything, it's done to get it out of the way in the standard manner. have a read of a vast number of encyclopedic reference works and you'll see the same standard applies. The opening here should reflect Wikipedia:Lead section. Hope that helps. Hiding T 15:08, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

• Alternate names are introduced straight away with the standard name. I'm going to change it to the way it was a while ago. ArtistScientist (talk) 00:57, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

On a related note, is it "the Batman" or "The Batman"? i.e., "I am the Batman" or "I am The Batman" --Gadflyr (talk) 13:43, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

Pretty sure it's "the Batman", although for The Batman (TV) it's "The Batman" but that's just for the show, and plus you couldn't have the show be "the Batman" because that's not proper English. Anakinjmt (talk) 18:30, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

As I meant from my example, I was referring to it when used as a proper noun(s?) for the character, rather than a name of a series.--Gadflyr (talk) 08:54, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

When used as a proper noun, it is "the Batman," as the word "The" isn't exactly part of his title. As for "Batman" vs. "The Batman," either is correct, depending on how you look at it: If you think that 'Batman' is his alter ego's name, then you say "Batman" throughout. But if you accept that he is not named "Batman" and is simply modeled after a bat, then you must call him "The Batman" throughout the article (for grammar's sake, we'd say "the Batman," unless it was the beginning of a sentence). I hope that wasn't too confusing. JesterCountess^{[talk•contribs]} 03:11, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Kinda confusing, yes. If people call him "The Batman" as a title (it seems to go in and out of vogue with the writers, I'll admit), why isn't it part of his title? Why do you have to accept that he is not named "Batman"? Can't both names be valid? I'm not sure what you mean "for grammar's sake" if grammar would dictate the "The" would be capitalized if you accept "The Batman" is a name.--Gadflyr (talk) 15:45, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

"Batman" is a name, but "the Batman" is more of a title. He gets referred to as if it's both a name and a title. In terms of punctuation, "the" is only a determiner, not a keyword, so it's not capitalized. ArtistScientist (talk) 23:41, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Return of Bruce Wayne?

Perhaps someone who is more knowedgeable in the storyline might want to add this information at the end of the Modern Batman" section..?

"The World’s Greatest Detective is facing his toughest mystery.

Lost in the timestream, believed to be dead by his friends and enemies alike, Bruce Wayne must use every bit of intelligence, every ounce of strength and training he’s acquired over the years to find his way back to the city, and adopted family of vigilantes, he’d left behind.

Blasted by the mysterious and powerful Omega Effect in the pages of FINAL CRISIS during a deadly battle with the malevolent New God Darkseid, Bruce Wayne must battle back through the waves of time to reclaim what was his – his city, his life…his cowl?

From the kinetic and awe-inspiring imagination of writer Grant Morrison and an all-star cast of artists, including Chris Sprouse, who’ll handle art chores on the first issue, BATMAN: THE RETURN OF BRUCE WAYNE #1 (of 6) hits in April and will prove to be Bruce Wayne’s defining moment as a hero, and his toughest challenge yet."

Source: http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2009/12/09/dcu-in-2010-the-return-of-bruce-wayne-hits-in-april/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.119.229.163 (talk) 16:45, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

I believe the simplest way woul be to indicate:

On December 9, 2009 DC announced that Bruce Wayne would be making his anticipated return in 2010. The storyline titled Return Of Bruce Wayne will consist of a six issue miniseries beginning in April of 2010. The series will follow Bruce Wayne in a journey through time, trying to find his way back to the present-day Gotham City he calls home.

The series will be written by Grant Morrison and feature a different artist on each issue. Morrison described the tales as: " Bruce Wayne's ultimate challenge — Batman vs. history itself!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaf2675 (talk • contribs) 21:59, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

the name of Bruce' son is Damian - not Damien!!

please chance it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.78.93.81 (talk) 21:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

Batman's Abilities

After watching Batman and Superman Public Enemies, Batman's abilities should be super strength, speed, and agility. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eupeyd (talk • contribs) 06:06, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

Abilitlies and Powers?

I wanted to know where that section is or if there is one. Most wiki pages for comic book heroes have their powers/abilities but it seems like this page doesn't. I may be on the wrong page but this seems like where all of Batman(Bruce Wayne's alter ego)'s information belongs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.81.250 (talk) 02:13, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

batman doesn't really have any powers.71.112.117.210 (talk) 00:36, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't it have at least he is a martial artist? Even Catwoman has her abilities listed. 76.104.81.250 (talk) 04:17, 9 January 2010 (UTC)