Talk:Lotus Cars

Copyvio

Text on the Lotus Exige was a copyright violation, from http://www.lotusespritworld.com/LotusModels/LotusExige.html. Removed and replaced with a short sentence. —Morven 04:35, Aug 23, 2004 (UTC)

Lots of copyvios found in car descriptions. I reworded where I noticed them.

Would anyone mind moving the master Lotus article to Lotus Cars (the name of the company) instead of having that redirect to Lotus (car)? --SFoskett 16:48, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Lotus racing cars safety

This business of Lotus racing cars killing drivers because Colin was a nut for lightness is really an urban myth. Looking at the list of Lotus team drivers killed in Lotuses:

• 'Mac' Frazer was killed at Rheims in a Lotus 11, but I can find no details of what happened.
• Alan Stacey was killed at Spa when a bird hit him in the face while he was travelling at high speed.
• Jim Clark (racing driver) was killed at Hockenheim when his car cut a tire, likely on some metal debris, and he lost control on one of the long curving high-speed straights, and hit a tree side on (no guard rails back then), right next to where Jim was sitting.
• Mike Spence was killed at Indianapolis when he got out on the marbles, grazed the wall, and had a wheel partially torn off and come into the cockpit - identical to Ayrton Senna's fatal accident.
• Jochen Rindt was killed at Monza when he lost control of the car (the reasons are not certain, although there is a suspicion that a broken front-brake shaft [the car he was driving had inboard front brakes] contributed - that failure was traced to an error in the manufacturing process; in addition, he had insisted on running without the wing [the car being very unstable in that condition, to the point where his team-mate was scared of it], and it was an early lap, so the tires would not have been fully warmed); after he hit the Armco, his car got underneath the barrier (which was not properly secured) and hit the barrier support, and in a complex process he was killed by a side effect of that.

There's none there you can trace to Colin's penchant for lightness. (In fact, the monocoque chassis cars he devised were far safer for drivers in crashes than the tube-frame ones they replaced.)

It's true that Stirling Moss did have several bad crashes, one caused by a mechanical defects (a design defect in which a hub failed through a flange not being radiused), but the one which ended his career has always been a mystery. The other one, if the cause was correctly deduced, was again not due to lightness.

Can anyone provide any data for the claim about lightness and danger? Noel (talk) 16:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's mostly an urban myth Chapman was much more concerned by safety issues than Enzo Ferrari. However I think this could be traced to some declaration Jochen Rindt about feeling unsafe while driving the Lotus. I think Matra officials also contributed to the legend by some declarations like "Unlike Lotus, an aeronautic parts provider can't deal with critical parts breakage" (not an exact quote). Concerning Moss, Moss was driving for the private team of Rob Walker. Despite the fact that Walker's team was probably the best private team ever in F1, Walkers cars were often in poor shape compared to works teams. For instance Walker's Lotus 72 than won the British GP was considered as a very dangerous car by Lotus Team mechanics. The problem was critical when Moss drove Lotuses : Lotus had support from Esso while Walker had support from BP. Esso forbidden Lotus to sell cars or parts to Walker. However there was a secret agreement between Chapman and Walker allowing Walker to buy parts sold by Chapman to a third party. But this wasn't made to a large scale. Chapman didn't wan't that Esso noticed his double play thus Walker remained in lack of spare parts and used some parts to the limit if not over the limit. Ericd 16:19, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Team Lotus/Lotus Cars

At one time the Lotus Team was splitted from Lotus Cars but when ? Ericd 20:33, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

"designed to maneuver a racing circuit and nothing else"

I am not changing this yet but it is misleading. This car was designed, based on a racing car (in the very best regarded idealistic sportscar tradition), to let people enjoy driving on public roads. One thing to realize is that English roads are curvier and smoother than those of most countries. (I think it was a French test of a Lotus Seven that told me this.)

When I was driving both regularly, I was impressed by how much advantage the Seven had, over the Triumph TR3B of about the same year, in handling (including road holding), safety, acceleration, tire wear and fuel consumption, compared to much slighter advantages of the TR3 in space, comfort, top speed and reliability. (It is true that I lost some hearing in my right ear, but that was not entirely the car's fault: I regularly drove home from work, on a Motorway, in a wind, without the driver's side side-curtain.) David R. Ingham 06:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Branding

What is the wikipedia policy for such cars as the Vauxhall VX220 and the Opel Speedster, cars made by one company for another (I know both of these are Lotus-made)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.133.45.103 (talk • contribs)

Hornsea

Edited the the spelling - Hornsea is in East Yorkshire, England. The first Lotus factory was in Hornsey, an area in London, England. Indeed, as of Jan 2006, a museum is planned: http://www.historiclotusregister.co.uk/contact/lotusmuseum.htm#museum (in Hornsey, not Hornsea) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ukurko (talk • contribs)

Mid engined layout

The Cooper F1 team was responsible for the mid-engined layout, not Lotus. The first Cooper F1 cars were designed in a similar manner to the motorcycle engined formula junior engined cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.195.137.125 (talk • contribs)

Beginnings

The spelling "Hornsey" is the right one. However, the company moved in 1959 from there to Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England; the fatory was in Delamare Road to be precise. Could anyone confirm the actual address? I believe this location was on the truck(s) they used and I think there is at least one photograph of this extant. They stayed there for about six years before settling into Hethel. Alan Beare 01:10, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Over Linked

Does anybody else think that the first paragraph is absurdly over-linked? Greglocock 08:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is basically crap, sorry to say... --kingboyk

Legendary Handling and Light weight

"possessing legendary handling characteristics" . I think this is propaganda. I'd actually describe the Esprit as fairly evil right through until 1990, when it got a big dose of understeer. The limits were high, but you needed to be a much much better driver than average to exploit them. The Excel was a much nicer car to drive, the slightly higher PMI might have helped. While we're at it I'm not convinced by the light weight tag, an X180 in 1989 weighed around 1350 kg - almost exactly the same as a 6 seater Ford Falcon with a cast iron engine. (1333 kg), or indeed a Ferrari 328 at 1273 kg. Greglocock 08:48, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Lotus Europa - "the first affordable mid-engined road car ever produced."

Only some 9300 Europas were produced in the entire production run from 1966 to 1975. I'm having some difficulty finding pricing information, but figures I am seeing are easily above $5400.

This is price almost double that of the Porsche 914-4 (1969-1979, over 118,000 produced during the production run, also mid-engined).

Median U.S. household income in 1966 was about $7,000 (RAND Corporation figures).

I am having some difficultly thinking of the Lotus Europa as either affordable or as mass-produced.

I think that the phrase is justified. A basic Ford sedan in 1970 cost about $4,000, so the Europa cost just 15% more. That's relatively "affordable", and it's far below any other mid-engined sportscar of the time. "Mass-produced"? Well, not by Ford standards perhaps, but all the same, it was built on a factory assembly line with standardized parts, and Lotus turned out about a thousand Europas every year. By small British automaker standards, that was pretty good. Their previous main model, the Elite, was only turned out at about 150 a year.Bricology (talk) 22:32, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Founded in 1952???

If Lotus was founded in 1952, why did Lotus celebrate 50 years in 1998, with the Elise Anniversary Edition? see http://www.grouplotus.com/cars/lotus_heritage.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.104.96.226 (talk) 13:48, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Colin Chapman built his first car in 1948. However, Lotus Engineering Company was formed in 1952. See About Lotus. swaq 17:05, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

cleaning house

In the "Previous" section, under "Esprit", it read "The Esprit shocked many at its launch; its geometric, laser-cut lines seemed far more futuristic than anything on the road -- on the cinema screen, for that matter." This is just silly, and utterly non-Wiki. I've removed it. Bricology (talk) 22:14, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

External links?

- swaq

Why Is the Lotus Techwiki not allowed to be added as an external link?

PLEASE EXPLAIN. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.74.188 (talk) 21:10, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:External links. Links normally to be avoided, #12:

• "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."

swaq 17:26, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

"except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors."

Wiki running since MAY 2006, fully stable.

Over 10,000 members who can edit the wiki, do you want amount of editors too?

I dispute your edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.36.202.77 (talk) 11:01, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

~~

Link removed again. :| —Preceding unsigned comment added by Seloc Mr Wiki (talk • contribs) 13:34, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Looking at the recent changes on SELOC it seems there are only 20 or so active editors. I don't think this qualifies as a substantial number of editors. Also, that is just the criteria for not including the link. You still have to show that it should be included according to the external link guidelines. swaq 17:00, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't understand this?

Where do you have the right to suggest if a link is valid or not?

I will get the number of editors, and under your 'should' argument there is no valid reasons to not allow another wiki as a link

• See star wars Wookieepedia link

• See Heroes_(TV_series) Heroes wiki

Emme Lotus 422T

Article needed methinks. Actually the company Emme seems to have no article at all (see Emme disambiguation page). --kingboyk (talk) 15:27, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Seems to be incredibly obscure from what little I found on a brief Google search, but if you want to start an article, then go ahead, be bold. There's already this page on the Portuguese Wikipedia which you could use as a starting point. If you have the knowledge and suitable sources, then yeah, start the article, why not? Only 12 cars made though? Is it worthy of an article? Spute (talk) 21:08, 15 February 2010 (UTC)