Talk:Micheál Ledwith

Sourcing

The RTE Radio interview or talk show this refers to is unclear as to the particulars surrounding the fact checking and even the content of the show (apparently there is a sound file attached, but I was unable to open and listen to it). I've removed the link and the critical content it was sourcing per WP:BLP as it appears to be poorly sourced. Dreadstar † 20:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Well would it help to check Wikipedia for the entry Fr Gerard McGinnity? Surely you can't argue over this source?r011in 18:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

You could also cite the Ferns Report a copy of which you can find here [1], now sir, please reinstate the facts, before I do!r011in 19:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

This source does not appear to meet the requirements outlined in WP:RS and WP:BLP. Dreadstar † 19:22, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Can you tell me why an official report commissioned by the Irish Government and written by a retired Supreme Court of Ireland judge which investigates the history of sexual abuse by members of the clergy in Ireland and which references directly the person this article is written about is not a reliable source?r011in 19:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The site itself does not appear to be a reliable source, much less one that meets the strict requirements of WP:BLP. Surely there are other sites that you can find with the information that backs this up. I don't doubt the story or the ruling, but I don't think the sites provided are reliable sorces. A talk radio show broadcast that has no transcript or proof of fact-checking or a "your comments" section on the BBC website, or bishop-accountability.org that has absolutely no indication of who put the material on the page, who fact-checked it or other information that can help us see that it's a reliable source?? I don't think so. We cannot leave Wikipedia open to charges of libel. Find better sources and present them here on the talk page before re-insterting any of these accusations or claims. Dreadstar † 19:45, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification, I will do exactly that and revert.r011in 19:50, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

That will be great, if you find new and appropriate sources, then it won't really be problematic reverting or adding further BLP violations. Dreadstar † 19:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've put the new source below under a new headingr011in 20:09, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Ferns Report

Would this source be suitable? [2] This organisation One in Four represents victims of abuse I believe. The founder Colm O'Gorman is a Senator in the Seanad.r011in 20:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Isn't there an offical court site that will have the documentation? Dreadstar † 20:34, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Not unless I pay for it, and then it's hard copy only. See here[3]r011in 20:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

I've asked for more opinions on these sources. Dreadstar † 21:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. I think it is important enough to warrant the trouble you're going to, and I do appreciate it.r011in 21:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your understanding. I've made a request on the BLP talk page for more eyes on this, and may broaden the search from there. Dreadstar † 21:44, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

If it helps to clear up the legitimacy of the sources I've used, the Ferns Report article itself in Wikipedia uses this reference. [4], as does this article Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases. I think that my source at the One in Four website is probably a better one. The accusations are referred to at Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases, anyway, so it will just be copying information which is already on Wikipedia onto another page, albeit this one is a biographical page.r011in 22:36, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately not, it's the same questionable references. I've found a better BBC new link to replace the "viewers comments" one, but I haven't examined the transcript to see if it contains content sufficient to re-add the critical commentary on Ledwith. Messy, the sourcing for all these articles. Dreadstar † 23:17, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Nothing yet then on the BLP talk page? What happens next?-- r011in (talk) 22:07, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, but you'll have to find a better source, that's all there is to it. Another editor has also questioned one of the sources on another article. Dreadstar † 22:11, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Is this the diamond in the rough you've been looking for? Please check this out, it is a recording of the relevant show, including the interview with the "whistleblower" and it is in mp3 format, which means you just have to right click and save as onto your desktop. It is from RTE's website[5], and remember that RTE are the state broadcasting company of Ireland. I hope this helps [6]-- r011in (talk) 22:18, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Added compensation ref and Ferns Report section

Why had these been left out?86.42.229.38 (talk) 21:15, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

New version of article

On September 23, User:Greenagent completely rewrote this article, replacing it with a new version written from scratch. This was probably a good idea, as the old version was somewhat unbalanced and arguably violated our WP:BLP policy. However, the new version made no mention of the sexual abuse allegations which are part of the reason Mr. Ledwith is notable. (These are still mentioned elsewhere in Wikipedia, such as our article Ferns Report.) On careful consideration, I have re-added a brief section about this, with a reference to the RTE news report that was previously used; I believe it is well-sourced and worthy of mention in this article. Please discuss this here before removing it. Robofish (talk) 16:26, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

On the Ferns Report article you'll see links to the 2005 Irish parliamentary debates which were scathing of the limited McCullough Report; see [7] and [8].86.46.230.150 (talk) 17:40, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Senator Mary Henry: "With regard to Monsignor Ledwith, I was dismayed to read the response of the bishops to whom complaints were made by six senior seminarians, as they are described in the report, as well as the senior dean of Maynooth College, Fr. Gerard McGinnity. Cardinal Daly, one of the surviving bishops, indicated in his statement to the inquiry that it was entirely untrue that any seminarian had mentioned homosexuality to him in connection with Monsignor Ledwith. He also stated it was not credible that he would have ignored allegations of homosexuality when he was already investigating the issue in Maynooth College. The Cardinal added that if the issue had been raised with him, Monsignor Ledwith would never have been appointed president of Maynooth College. Unfortunately, I have found that the Cardinal’s memory is not always clear." [9].86.46.230.150 (talk) 17:47, 22 April 2010 (UTC)