Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 May 23

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May 23

NEW NOMINATIONS

Merge into Category:Unicode typefaces. "Unicode typeface" means like 'covering multiple scripts, all characters encoded in Unicode'. (It does not mean: a typographic style related to Unicode. It is more like: typeface Greek script?, Cyrillic script? or some Unicode scripts?). From here, there is no clear border between "Unicode typeface" and "Pan-Unicode typeface". It is just a matter of how many characters does it cover. And then: why a distinction; what's the border number? (History: maybe ten years ago it was a big feat if a typeface covered many scripts (encoded in Unicode. But nowadays it seems less relevant). btw: the word "Pan-Unicode" is not a well-used nor a defined word.
Summary: There is no clear or useful distinction between "Pan-Unicode" and "Unicode" in typefacing. If a typeface is Unicode-covering into some length, let's cat it under Category:Unicode typefaces. -DePiep (talk) 20:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Propose merging Category:Pan-Unicode typefaces to Category:Unicode typefaces

Nominator's rationale: Merge into Category:Unicode typefaces. "Unicode typeface" means like 'covering multiple scripts, all characters encoded in Unicode'. (It does not mean: a typographic style related to Unicode. It is more like: typeface Greek script?, Cyrillic script? or some Unicode scripts?). From here, there is no clear border between "Unicode typeface" and "Pan-Unicode typeface". It is just a matter of how many characters does it cover. And then: why a distinction; what's the border number? (History: maybe ten years ago it was a big feat if a typeface covered many scripts (encoded in Unicode. But nowadays it seems less relevant). btw: the word "Pan-Unicode" is not a well-used nor a defined word.
Summary: There is no clear or useful distinction between "Pan-Unicode" and "Unicode" in typefacing. If a typeface is Unicode-covering into some length, let's cat it under Category:Unicode typefaces. -DePiep (talk) 20:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary category with only one image in it. Clubmarx (talk) 16:52, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Soundtracks by artist nationality

Propose renaming Category:British soundtracks to Category:Soundtracks by British artists

Propose renaming Category:Australian soundtracks to Category:Soundtracks by Australian artists

Propose renaming Category:German soundtracks to Category:Soundtracks by German artists

Propose renaming Category:American soundtracks to Category:Soundtracks by American artists

Propose renaming Category:Indian soundtracks to Category:Soundtracks by Indian artists

Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_May_15#Albums_by_artist. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:50, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Video albums by artist nationality

Propose renaming Category:German video albums to Category:Video albums by German artists

Propose renaming Category:Swedish video albums to Category:Video albums by Swedish artists

Propose renaming Category:Canadian video albums to Category:Video albums by Canadian artists

Propose renaming Category:British video albums to Category:Video albums by British artists

Propose renaming Category:Irish video albums to Category:Video albums by Irish artists

Propose renaming Category:Australian video albums to Category:Video albums by Australian artists

Propose renaming Category:American video albums to Category:Video albums by American artists

Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_May_15#Albums_by_artist. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Live albums by artist nationality

Propose renaming Category:Swedish live albums to Category:Live albums by Swedish artists

Propose renaming Category:Spanish live albums to Category:Live albums by Spanish artists

Propose renaming Category:Norwegian live albums to Category:Live albums by Norwegian artists

Propose renaming Category:Mexican live albums to Category:Live albums by Mexican artists

Propose renaming Category:Japanese live albums to Category:Live albums by Japanese artists

Propose renaming Category:Jamaican live albums to Category:Live albums by Jamaican artists

Propose renaming Category:Irish live albums to Category:Live albums by Irish artists

Propose renaming Category:Greek live albums to Category:Live albums by Greek artists

Propose renaming Category:German live albums to Category:Live albums by German artists

Propose renaming Category:French live albums to Category:Live albums by French artists

Propose renaming Category:Dutch live albums to Category:Live albums by Dutch artists

Propose renaming Category:Danish live albums to Category:Live albums by Danish artists

Propose renaming Category:Canadian live albums to Category:Live albums by Canadian artists

Propose renaming Category:British live albums to Category:Live albums by British artists

Propose renaming Category:Brazilian live albums to Category:Live albums by Brazilian artists

Propose renaming Category:Austrian live albums to Category:Live albums by Austrian artists

Propose renaming Category:Australian live albums to Category:Live albums by Australian artists

Propose renaming Category:American live albums to Category:Live albums by American artists

Nominator's rationale: Per Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_May_15#Albums_by_artist. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Nancy Wilson live albums

Propose renaming Category:Nancy Wilson live albums to Category:Nancy Wilson (jazz singer) live albums

Nominator's rationale: To dab from the member of Heart. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 16:30, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Support As creator, I agree. BTW, how brilliant is Nancy Wilson? Gareth E Kegg (talk) 17:13, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Expatriate female footballers in Norway

Category:Expatriate female footballers in Norway - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete. Triple intersection of non-defining characteristics. TM 14:34, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Upmerge to Category:Expatriate footballers in Norway Mayumashu (talk) 15:04, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Note that this is just one of many recently similar categories based on this triple intersection, see Category:Expatriate female footballers in Brazil.--TM 15:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Upmerge to Category:Expatriate footballers in Norway (each should already be in an existing 'fooian female footballers'). There are indeed quite a few similar ones. We don't have Category:Expatriate female footballers (Category:Expatriate association football players is not gendered) or even Category:Expatriate women (Category:Expatriates is not gendered) ... editors should look for over-arching trees before creating odd-ball categories in the undergrowth. Occuli (talk) 16:16, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The creator has now produced Category:Expatriate female footballers and conveniently gathered together the siblings, which should all be deleted. Occuli (talk) 19:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Albums by Philippine artists

Propose renaming Category:Albums by Philippine artists to Category:Albums by Filipino artists

Nominator's rationale: As was mentioned in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 January 25#Filipino to Philippine, "Philippine is generally used with inanimate objects. Filipino may be used with either inanimate objects or people, though preference swings towards the latter". While the albums are inanimate objects (so at the time of that CfR the correct word was "Philippine"), the artists are people, so now it should be "Filipino". עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:32, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Template:Navigation Bar Township Structure (Hesse)

Category:Template:Navigation Bar Township Structure (Hesse) - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Category designed for a single template, containing nothing but this one template. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Prophets by religion

Propose renaming

Nominator's rationale: Rename all per consistency with Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2010 May 14#Category:Prophets in Islam. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:02, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Air Freight Terminal

Propose merging Category:Air Freight Terminal to Category:Air cargo terminals

Nominator's rationale: Merge. Technical nomination. Found with incorrect merge tag. Vegaswikian (talk) 22:28, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedia sounds

Propose renaming Category:Wikipedia sounds to Category:Wikipedia audio samples

Nominator's rationale: Rename. I think audio samples is a more accurate description of what is being categorised. c.f. Category:Non-free audio samples. Tim! (talk) 09:52, 2 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:40, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Russian Internet personalities

Propose renaming Category:Russian Internet personalities to Category:Russian internet personalities

Nominator's rationale: Internet should not be capitalised in the category name. Russavia ^{I'm chanting as we speak} 07:31, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments – I agree. The same applies to all the siblings in Category:Internet personalities by country, which should be renamed to 'by nationality'. Occuli (talk) 12:59, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Clothing for women

Category:Clothing for women - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete. This seems rather arbitrary and based on western cultural norms and is subjective. Among the items categorized are Bathrobe, Belt, Coat, and Shirt which are not solely women's items. At the very least, some better standards for inclusion should be imposed. Dismas|^(talk) 03:58, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Invariant subspaces

Category:Invariant subspaces - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete, disjoint jumble of articles, all of them well categorified already, therefore redundant. Arcfrk (talk) 03:46, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

[ At this point, User:Kiefer.Wolfowitz copied his comments from Wikipedia Talk:WikiProject Mathematics#Invariant subspaces. Editors may wish to read the original discussion. Also, I have deleted a comment of mine that he inadvertently included. Ozob (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC) ][reply]

Sorry for including a comment of Ozob, which I thought was pertinent; I didn't know that this was a breach of etiquette. Please see another comment in favor of deletion there, I'll mention in the spirit of fairness. Thanks Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 15:47, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I just thought it was a mistake. I'm not offended; sorry for the confusion! Ozob (talk) 19:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Response: The Perron-Frobenius theorem is discussed within the books on invariant subspaces by Aliprantis and Burkinshaw and by Radjavi and Rosenthal (simultaneous triangularization); it is also discussed by Lybuich (Banach representation of groups) and by various authors following de Pagter's use of Lomonosov's invariant subspace theorem to prove that compact positive operators have a postive spectral radius. Given this literature, Arcfrk's comment "category spam" was as impolite as Arkfrk's deletion was unwarranted. Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 01:09, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

See Henry Helson's book on Invariant subspaces to read about the Beurling factorization theorem (Hardy spaces), which is an abstract version of the Wold decomposition; this is also discussed in Young's book on Hilbert Spaces. Most of the topics are covered in Beauzamy and Lyubich's books. Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 02:53, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The relation of Burnside's lemma to invariant subspaces has been known for decades, and is discussed in Lyubich's book, previously cited. Recent important results include Lomonosov's Burnside theorem: Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 13:17, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Cite article

Delete. Right now, the category is a featureless collection of unrelated topics, some of which talk about invariant subspaces (such as Burnside's lemma) and others of which have nothing at all to do with it (such as simple module and linear subspace). Even for those articles which are related to invariant subspaces, it is not clear to me that placing articles in this category will serve readers any better than placing them in the parent category Category:Representation theory: The topic of that category is group representations, and any group representation has an invariant subspace; conversely, invariant subspaces have meaning only in the context of group representations. So altogether I think this category is nothing more than overcategorization. Ozob (talk) 13:41, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ozob seems to be thinking only of finite dimensional group-representation theory, because his statements are wrong for infinite dimensions. In operator theory, it is unknown whether all linear operators on separable complex Hilbert spaces have (non-trivial) invariant subspaces. Invariant subspaces have importance besides finite-dimensional group representation theory. It is true that simple module doesn't really belong, so I deleted it's membership in the category. I also updated the Beurling factorization (which was previously just a link to the Hardy space article). Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 15:44, 23 May 2010 (UTC) I also deleted the membership of linear subspace. IMHO, it is premature to delete the category when legitimate criticism has led to greater focus. Also, membership in this category should spur some operator theorists to expand the invariant subspace material of the Wold decomposition and the Beurling factorization (which again appear in Henry Helson's book on Invariant Subspaces). Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 15:56, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm not just thinking of the finite dimensional case. The trivial space and the whole vector space are invariant, always, and even in the finite dimensional case there need not be any others. When you say "it is unknown whether all linear operators on separable complex Hilbert spaces have (non-trivial) invariant subspaces", I agree with you fully, but I'm not sure of the relevance.

Since this discussion began, the category has been much expanded. I am still not convinced that the category is coherent; for instance, the Perron–Frobenius theorem is not a theorem on invariant subspaces except in the trivial sense that any eigenvector determines an invariant subspace. The theorem has generalizations which may be characterized as theorems about invariant subspaces, but these receive only a very brief mention at the end; so it feels inappropriate to me to categorize the article itself as being about invariant subspaces. Ozob (talk) 19:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I repeat that the reliable sources C. D. Aliprantis and Owen Burkinshaw discuss invariant subspaces and the Perron Frobenius theorem in their AMS Graduate textbooks An Invitation to Operator Theory; ditto with the authors of Invariant subpaces, Heydar Radjavi and Peter Rosenthal, with their book on Simultaneous Triangularization. (I've mentioned Lyubichch several times.) My proposed category "invariant subspaces" collects articles of greatest interest to operator theorists and numerical linear algebra people (e.g. Krylov subspaces); I agree that the "group representation category" is of greater use to many algebraists and Fourier analysts, but the improved category does have its uses! Cheers, Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 19:23, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Volcanic ash clouds

Category:Volcanic ash clouds - Template:Lc1

Nominator's rationale: Delete as yet another category created by Nopetro where there are at present no suitable articles. The closest, Air travel disruption after the 2010 Eyjafjallajökull eruption, is not an article about a cloud itself. Neither is the only other content: Volcanic ash. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 01:37, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - these are not clouds. Nopetro should be blocked from category creation pending reformation. (There is a suggestion at user:nopetro that nopetro is a sock of user:Mac, a blocked editor who indulged in rampant creation of categories.) Occuli (talk) 13:09, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes, I saw that, as well. Checking the edit history of user:Mac there does seem to be a similarity in editing patterns and interests, though no obvious smoking gun that I saw for an ARV report. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:06, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]