Talk:Korean War

"1,400 KPA POWs were secretly sent to the US to be atomic-weapon experimental subjects"

The sources attached to this claim in the section "Prisoners of War" provide absolutely nothing to substantiate it. Hence, I would suggest either adding proper ones or removing this part of the sentence. -- 91.11.190.117 (talk) 16:05, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

one source does indeadc make no mention of this that I can find. The other source gives no page numbers, and thus is suspect.Slatersteven (talk) 16:42, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I am boldly removing this unsupported claim of horrific U.S. atrocities. Tommy.rousse (talk) 21:34, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Oops, didn't realize this was semi-protected, came to the Talk page to see if there were any disputes about that fact. Can someone else with privileges justify or remove that sentence? Tommy.rousse (talk) 21:37, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Can I second that request? The unsubstantiated claim put forward by the North Korean news agency regarding UN attrocities carried out on KPA and PVA prisoners does not belong in this article. Unless a verified and objective source can be cited, this is simply drivel. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jameswester (talk • contribs) 22:20, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

OK it's gone. Rjensen took it out. Good catch, guys. --Diannaa ^TALK 22:37, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

I have reinserted it since I found the supporting reference. However, it does beg the question on whether a North Korean state sponsored source is fringe, or reflects the official position of a government - (or possibly both). I think it's useful to include, because it reflects the state of the North, and the relationship between it and the rest of thr world, which is relevant to the article - but it may need some more context. i.e. specifically mentioning that it is state sponsored, and is the only place these allegations are made. (Hohum ^@) 03:58, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

an editor should only include information he thinks is true. So the question is whether Hohum thinks the statement is true. Rjensen (talk) 04:09, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

No, WP:V is clear: The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth—whether readers can check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source, not whether editors think it is true."

The reference I provided is reliable in that it reflects what was said by the Korean Central News Agency, which is a mouthpiece of the government. What North Korea says is important to the article, even if it's likely a lie itself. (Hohum ^@) 04:30, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

I do think that the section about North Korea's claims do need more context about how the North Korean government could be lying for propaganda purposes.--Ace Oliveira (talk) 18:01, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

minor edit requests

Characteristics - Armored warfare - second paragraph, last sentence: 'cannon' should be replaced with the more generic 'gun' to more accurately describe the howitzers meant —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.230.97 (talk) 05:25, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

If you mean "howitzers" why don't we say so? Do you have a source we can use as a citation? --Diannaa ^TALK 14:24, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

did you look at the paragraph? there is a source cited and the term 'howitzer' is used already in the same sentence; imorived diction is the main purpose of the edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.60.108.228 (talk) 06:26, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh sorry, I see it now. I have made the suggested edit. --Diannaa ^TALK 06:57, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 122.163.154.92, 25 June 2010

{{editsemiprotected}} The governemnt of India also sent troops with for the UN force in Korea. No mention of this has been done. Please rectify this error.

Regards

122.163.154.92 (talk) 10:09, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

has a limit been imposed based on levels of commitment?Slatersteven (talk) 10:18, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm sorry, but requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources. If you can supply appropriate references, please reinstate the request.

Also, I suggest you get an account, then you can help us improve articles. Chzz  ►  14:14, 25 June 2010 (UTC)

 Not done

Merger proposal

Frankly, I was shocked to see an article on the "Second Korean War". I discovered it while looking at biographies of different US military personnel. They had listed it under the battles/wars they had been engaged in. Well, I was in South Korea in 1973-1975, and while lots of events were going on, we GIs never thought that THE Korean War had restarted. In fact, the many events which the Second Korean War refers to are events which continue on to this day. Just a few days ago a South Korean warship sank, perhaps due to a North Korean mine. Many sailors died. Not that I'm being crass about the loss of life -- I've had personal friends die in Iraq and Afghanistan -- but designating this quite undefined and certainly unofficial time period as a "War" is too much. Let's merge it into a new subsection in the Korean War article. Call the section "On-going Hostility"--S. Rich 06:05, 13 April 2010 (UTC) I agree with you, and I've never heard anyone else use "Second Korean War" to describe that period; we should either merge the article with this one or maybe with Legacy of the Korean War, or move it to a more appropriate name, maybe something like Conflicts in Korea (1966-1976), although that doesn't specify the belligerents. --Cerebellum (talk) 02:03, 14 April 2010 (UTC) I don't think it should be brought into the Korean War article as it will make it too long (the present article is already 133 KB). I was having trouble loading the thing as it was when I had to do full-page edits to get the photos aligned. People with slow internet connections or older computers would have trouble looking at the article. I would prefer merging with Legacy of the Korean War, or the name change idea suggested by Cerebellum. Diannaa TALK 03:55, 14 April 2010 (UTC) Good points. I found the Legacy article later and think it is the best avenue of approach. The "Second Korean War" could be added as a subsection. As a topic itself, it only had one resource -- the military.com article. As a section within Legacy, it could note that an upsurge of incidents occurred in the particular time frame. But the use of the term "upsurge" really needs some empirical analysis. That in turn mean original research, which I understand is a no-no within Wikipedia.S. Rich 04:26, 14 April 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Srich32977 (talk • contribs) this is the werst thing i ever read —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.138.171.140 (talk) 17:42, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Some idiot added something.... Hi, some guy added "this never happened, ______ was there!" and then signed his name. Yeah, just wanted to let you know so you can take it off Adilrye (talk) 18:46, 16 April 2010 (UTC) adilrye Vandal already reverted and blocked indefinitely. Elockid (Talk) 18:57, 16 April 2010 (UTC) I support Merging it into this article, the combat never stoped after the ceasefire (there have been dozens of naval battles between the north and south over the years) the intensity just droped to a much lower level.67.84.178.0 (talk) 14:36, 22 April 2010 (UTC) Again, I urge moving this info into the Korean War article. Leaving this as an independent article only serves to overlook the bigger picture. Here is more support for the my argument: 1. A CRS summary (http://www.fas.org/man/crs/RL30004.pdf) gives us instances of clashes in 1958 and 1965 -- dates before the purported 1968 date in our article. 2. This summary does not include 1966 & 1967 incidents listed in the article. (Adding to the point that the article is composed of unverified material.) 3. The summary includes many incidents which occurred after the supposed 1976 cutoff date in the article. 4. The assertion that US (and KATUSA) soldiers conducted combat patrols are part of the "War" is misleading -- the DMZ has been and is patrolled by armed forces from both sides regularly since the armistice. 5. Just because a recommendation is made to declare a hostile fire zone does not mean a war has broken out. Congress and the President did not act on the recommendation. The recommendation was probably more for the benefit of the soldiers serving there. E.g., they may receive additional pay and/or tax free pay for serving there, and they may receive privileges of status such as wearing a "Combat Patch" on their uniform or the Combat Infantryman's Badge.--S. Rich 21:47, 2 May 2010 (UTC) I'll continue my diatribe to get KWII moved. One, here is info on the "combat patch" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_patch#Former_wartime_service; Two, the Combat Infantryman's Badge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Infantryman_Badge) may be worn by soldiers who were engaged in combat in the DMZ, but it is also authorized for service in the Dominican Republic and El Salvador -- but do we want to call those deployments "War"? Three, there was a constant drumbeat by ROK politicians (and generals) about the treat from DPK. The threat was sometimes used to justify coups d'tat and oppressive crackdowns on dissidents (e.g., Gwanju -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-American_sentiment_in_Korea#Gwangju_massacre). By putting up a Second Korea War article, we give tacit support to those actions. --S. Rich 07:06, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not letting the merger proposal die. It's either get the "Second Korean War" material into another article or kill it altogether. The "Second Korean War" article as a separate article has absolutely no support in the general literature. But instead of unilaterally killing it, I invited editors to comment. No one has come up with support for continuing the article.--S. Rich 13:41, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Was this article written by the US Army? inaceptable POV

it sounds like this and is an inacceptable POV. E.g. the areal bombardment of North-Korean towns, i.e. bombardment of civilians which was a major topic in this war - as in any US war. To claim an UN supported war in the introduction without explainig how this could happen the given veto power of USSR and China is also close to fraud. ... among many other statements --Smilosevic (talk) 17:43, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Your second point has some vadaility. I think maybe the lead should point out that the UUS and PRC were boycoting then UN. Your first point would need to be backed up by RS saying that the US dilliberatly targeted civilians.Slatersteven (talk) 17:48, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Please note that the PRC was not the representative of China on the Security Council at the time. The switch between the Republic of China (ROC) and People's Republic of China occurred in 1971. But the basic fact of the introduction, that the war was authorized by the UN, remains as a fact. And yes -- clarification as to why the USSR did not veto the authorizing resolution should be added by an enterprising editor.--S. Rich 18:47, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

The article was in even worse shape back in March 2010, with people complaining about POV in the choice of photos (which were at that time exclusively of American GIs), photo captions, the text, and the choice of sources. See Archive 7 for specific examples. The article has improved a lot since then. The main obstacle for further improvements is the lack of RS from both sides. --Diannaa ^TALK 19:03, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Well -- I took on the role of enterprising editor and gave the UNSCR actions its own subsection. But the matter of how to address the isssue of civilian casualties is too much for me. We in the 21st century sometimes forget that KW was fought immediately following WWII, where total war meant that everything and everyone in the enemy nation was a legitimate target.--S. Rich 19:38, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I took out vitually every book at our library on this topic and other than photos and their captions none of them covered the civilian casualties nor the massive refugee problem, starvation, and so on that was endured. I think you are right that these sorts of problems were seen as business-as-usual in wartime, and were possibly still overshadowed at the time these books were written by the horrific casualties endured by all sides in WWII. Hopefully someone has access to more material? --Diannaa ^TALK 20:38, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

One time events aside, there are four huge topics on civilian sufferings that received some notice

• Forced conscription by both North and South Korea due to manpower shortage.
• Mass refugee exodus during the early Chinese intervention.
• Sever famine in North Korea that starved the Communist to half death from winter 1950 to late 1951.
• Systematic dehousing carried out by FEAF against the Communist.

The first two topics are routinely covered by US Army and South Korean government records, while the last two topics are present in US Air Force books. But they only deal with military side of the story, not the civilian side of the story. Jim101 (talk) 19:34, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Threat of Nuclear War

Newly released documents show Nixon considering a Nuclear attack on North Korea. Perhaps this should be added to Nuclear War section of this article. Source: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128337461 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.35.11.120 (talk) 00:15, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Except this is article is about the Korean War and Tricky Dick became president in 1969?--Ace Oliveira (talk) 18:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)