Talk:Elvis Presley

Pronunciation of 'Presley'

Not sure if this has been mentioned before, but I have often heard his surname pronounced 'Prezzley', whilst on various recordings the man himself says "Pressley". I'm all for pronouncing it the way he did and perhaps this should be reflected in the article. Thangyaverymuch... Rikstar⁴⁰⁹ 03:00, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

That sometimes happens. I've heard "Leslie" pronounced "Lezlie", for example. If you want to make it totally clear, feel free to construct the appropriate IPA for it (don't ask me, though, as I haven't a clue how IPA works, but it's the wikipedia standard). ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 03:54, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Before grappling with IPAs, don't forget a WP:RS... :) PL290 (talk) 07:09, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

That wasn't intended to put anyone off, btw—source, anyone? Of interest, also, is this current discussion concerning placement of the pronunciation, e.g., whether it's best in the lead or the infobox. PL290 (talk) 17:08, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

It never even occurred to me that this would be an issue. Presumably he would know how to pronounce his own name. Anyway, here's an amusing Youtube from long ago, with Steve Allen, Andy Griffith, Imogene Coca, and Elvis, who Steve introduces with a made-up nickname and last name pronounced "press-lee".[1] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:26, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

To complicate matters, here's Ted Koppel talking to Colonel Tom Parker in 1987 and calling him "prezz-lee". However, at about 3:15 and 4:25, Parker (who should know) calls him "press-lee".[2] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:39, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm not saying it is an issue! But if we can source it, that will serve to forestall the otherwise presumably numerous and constant challenges from those who think it's "prez" (which hitherto included me, to my, I assume, shame!). (Youtube won't really do, I suspect; I'm hoping someone has a book that mentions it.) PL290 (talk) 17:42, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Someone needs to find a clip of he himself saying it. The Koppel thing tells me that more people might have said "prezz-lee" than I had realized. But Elvis (and for that matter, Priscilla and Lisa Marie) ought to know how their own name is pronounced. Failing that, maybe there's a "Dictionary of American Biography" online which would have it. ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:46, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Don't know if this is a "reliable" source or not: [3] ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 17:51, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I don't think it matters. It's a personal choice how people pronounce it. "Prezz-lee" or "Press-lee" are both correct, in my opinion. It's like "Engel-bert" and "Engel-burt". I say it "Prezz-lay", and most people I've heard on documentaries say it as "Prezz-lay" too, although some do say it as "Press-lee". I always assumed it was "Prezz-lay" to alter it slightly from the original spelling of "Pressley", and also (probably wrongly) assumed that the other spelling (Pressley) emphasised the two S's to make it clear it was "Press-Lay". Having said all that, however, this site may be of use to put the correct pronunciation as "Press-lee" (I don't know if it's acceptable, I just googled it). Either way, as a featured article it should contain the info if needs be. Hope everyone is well. :) EDIT: The above site from Bugs lists both as acceptable pronunciations. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 17:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

In my part of the world "Bert" and "Burt" are homophones. And I never heard anyone say "prez-lay". ←Baseball Bugs ^{What's up, Doc?} carrots→ 11:22, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Took the words right out of my mouth—this is becoming something of an education for us all! PL290 (talk) 11:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi folks. I agree it may be a matter of personal choice, but that don't mean there's not a definitive pronunciation. Words in wiki seem to get the pronunciation spelled out, even when there's no variation in pronunciation e.g. the English town of Preston. So I would say it was even more important to have it listed in contentious cases. Sorry, ElvisFan - never heard it pronounced "Prezz-lay; always Prez-li, Prezlee, to my ears! If anyone has the chit-chat between Milton Berle and Elvis prior to him singing Hound Dog (June 5, 1956), you can hear Elvis say "Pressley". I think he does the same on the fan disc, "The Truth About Me", if memory serves me. I think the inogolo site has it right. Rikstar⁴⁰⁹ 11:18, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, no reason not to go for it; one person's "don't matter" + another's "would be nice" = "no conflict". I do think we need to cite a written source, though: hearing is somewhat subjective. (Personally I still think Neil Armstrong really did say "small step for a man", it was just the elision and the American accent that took the emphasis off the word "a". It still boggles my mind to think of that guy going all the way to the moon and back for the first time, only to be told he'd got his words wrong!) PL290 (talk) 11:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

If it is included and a written source is required I recommend this book. It clearly states that Graceland uses "Pres-lee", that those in the south use "Pres-lee", and it goes on to mention that Elvis himself used "Pres-lee" on the Milton Berle show.. ElvisFan1981 (talk) 14:05, 18 July 2010 (UTC)

Good find—that tells it pretty comprehensively ... as far as the surname's concerned. I guess if we were to put IPAs in the lead, we would need all three names (cf George W. Bush). But given that no one's expressed a preference about IPAs, I thought a bit about this, and I'm interested to know what folks think about the following suggestion, which ties it in with a tweak to how we present the Aron/Aaron discussion. We make clear in note (a) that there has long been debate over that spelling, concluding, "Aaron is the spelling his father chose for Presley's tombstone, and it is the spelling his estate has designated as official." My suggestion, then, is firstly to remove "(or Aron)" from the lead sentence (since the other spelling has been designated the official one, and note (a) provides ample explanation), and secondly to use note (a) to additionally mention the surname pronunciation. This would result in the following:

Elvis Aaron Presley^a (January 8, 1935 – August 16, 1977) was one of the most popular American singers of the 20th century. ...

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• ^ Note a: Although some pronounce his surname "PREZ-lee", Presley himself used the pronunciation of the American South, "PRESS-lee", as did his family and those who worked with him. The correct spelling of his middle name has long been a matter of debate. The physician who delivered him ...
  

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References

PL290 (talk) 09:20, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I think that's a terrific way to handle this. And for those who follow it to the source, there's the side benefit of Elster's wonderful description of his exemplary research into the matter. We may get some pushback on removing "Aron" from the lead sentence...but let's see. DocKino (talk) 09:44, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Great solution. Thank you to everyone for digging into this. Rikstar⁴⁰⁹ 10:28, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

 Done PL290 (talk) 16:29, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Vocal style and range

Meh, I found the "accepted" version of this subject inadaquately conveying Elvis' extraordinary vocal prowess and abilities, which are a huge part of his timeless legend and his success, so I added a few things which I feel improved it, but they were apparently rejected for the last inadaquate version. I knew it was a waste of time. Elvis will only adaquately be represented in the minds of those who actually know him and his music and his voice. Wiki won't do so and anyone reading it will be led astray. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.156.52.237 (talk) 14:54, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Did you notice the edit summary provided by the editor who reviewed your pending change? The reviewer noted some of the problems with your edit. Those are important principles to remember when considering adding content to any Wikipedia article, let alone a Featured Article. Another thing to bear in mind is our need to keep a tight reign on the size of this article, which already pushes the boundaries of acceptable size for a Wikipedia article. It must summarize Presley's entire life and career, so it's inappropriate to include much detail in the topical sections. I think it's possible one or two of those quotes could be worked into the narrative effectively, if references can be provided and it's done with care not to bloat the section. But of course other editors may disagree with me, feeling it says enough already. PL290 (talk) 15:52, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

I agree with the IP only real fans can add POV statements and think its ok :) Moxy (talk) 16:33, 20 July 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, POV statements, that's all. I added a few more pieces from quotes right here at the Wikipedia quote section about his vocal ability, and a comment or two of my own that I thought would more accurately convey the extent of his ability. But somehow the "racial issues" area of Elvis' page merits far more text here than his vocal talents (something important) do. Gotcha. I submit that some of the "reviewers and editors" making this page are not fully competent about Elvis and his career. Nothing about the several documented statements from people who actually worked with him in the studio regarding how he "arranged and produced" much of his (non-movie) music throughout his career either. Naw, that ain't important either. Can't find room for that tripe here. How about I add something about fried peanut butter and banana sandwiches? Will that stay here? "Featured article" eh? God help Elvis' actual "musical" legacy if left to Wikipedia, which unfortunately is where most people who don't know about him now look first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.4.15.170 (talk) 03:53, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi, whoever you are. If you want to improve this article, you'll need to post suggested edits on these talk pages for discussion with others - those people who have worked their asses off over (in some cases) years to drag this article from its sorry state to being a featured article. You make some points initially in your post that are very worthy of discussion, but then you go off on a regrettable sarcastic tangent, as if established editors are really only interested in crap like his dietary preferences. For the record, "something about fried peanut and banana sandwiches" wouldn't stay in the article, mainly because us 'old timers' have got more in common with you and your wishes than you seem to realize. It's these commonalities that enable editors to work together to improve the article, but no one person is likely to be happy with the entire contents because we all have to make compromises. I've had whole heaps of stuff deleted, changed, prodded and poked, and I'm still sore. There's no point in being sore when you make undiscussed, unilateral changes and they get reverted. Also, Wikipedia isn't the only web source of material on Presley and if anyone with half a brain wanted to find out about Presley, plenty of dedicated sites come up when you google the subject - and I'm quite sure that some of them will offer a take on Presley life - even his musical achievements and abilities - that you and I both prefer. But hey, this is Wikipedia, and the point is all these different sources tell a collective picture. What single source can ever be ideal? So let's sit down and share a peace pipe, agree that no one wants "tripe" in the article and let's discuss how the article might be improved. Rikstar⁴⁰⁹ 11:31, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

My apologies to you and other editors who are doing a good job here. I admit Elvis' page is a lot better than it used to be. I used to refuse to even enter it because it was so horrible and full of lies and unproven slanderous BS. It's a lot better now and looks like a decent page now, but I personally am not fully happy with how Elvis' musical legacy is portrayed, but as Elvis once sang, that's all right. I was ticked when my edits under "vocal style and range" were removed because if there is going to be an "edit" button to click into and edit something, then it's removed, what's the point of it? If there has to be a meeting at the round table first to discuss edits, good. It should be that way and especially with an icon like EP, but they should remove the edit buttons in that case. They give people the wrong idea and waste their time in the end when what they add is removed. I made the edits that were removed and I then suggested another edit here about Elvis arranging and producing much of his work himself, excluding much of the 60's "movie" songs which he detested, and that's something else that should absolutely be included by any reasonable measure, as it is documented by several people. I have some commentary about it myself in various books and such by various people who were with him, including studio engineers and musicians. I have seen others, and there are even some quotes here at Wiki about it. The "co-writer" of Heartbreak Hotel said he didn't recognize the song after Elvis was finished with it. Elvis totally rearranged it in the studio and even changed a few lyrics there, and the writer said Elvis deserved the credit that he got.

This was common throughout Elvis' career. Steve Sholes was listed as producer at RCA for the first half of EP's RCA career, but was mainly an A&R man and the extent of his job in the studio was mainly bringing in tunes he thought Elvis would like, and seeing to it that Elvis had what Elvis wanted in the studio. Much was the same later with Felton Jarvis. At the end of the day, he carried out what Elvis wanted, exactly how Elvis wanted it. Elvis ran the show, his was the last word from top to bottom in the studio. Vocals, arrangements, instrumentation, mixes, everything, and it's been well documented. Chips Moman produced his '69 Memphis sessions for the most part, but Elvis had some disagreements with him. He let Chips mainly have his way because he had agreed to it prior. There are accounts of Elvis going ballistic upon hearing a new song of his on the radio or when he heard the released record and it not sounding like he left it in the studio because it was tinkered with after. I feel this all should be included in his musical legacy. It's decades overdue. Peace.