Talk:Rhabdomyolysis

Introduction needs Editing

The introduction as it is now reads: "rhabdomyolysis is the breakdown of muscle tissue due to injury." It is true that one cause of rhabdomyolysis is caused by injury, but that is not the only cause. There are many others as well including over-exertion, suddenly and erratic increase in strenous exercise, and even heat stroke. My worry is that a person who has never encountered this before may go to the Wikipedia site and quickly read the first paragraph and assume they don't have it because they were not injured. I think a better, more accurate introduction would focus on the actual condition itself which is muscle tissue breaking down, and leading into causes later.

Again, the mentioning of bombings and the Blitz of London for reference in the introduction are potentially misleading. I think the introduction should be edited to read more like a medical journal.

The

The inclusion of MDMA/ecstasy as a chemical cause of rhabdomyolysis seems a bit misleading, as I am sure there are hundreds of other stimulant-type drugs that could theoretically cause the condition, but it doesn't seem to be supported by any cited references. I'd like to see that phrase either removed or supported with a scholarly citation. --Kat.reinhart 00:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

---

Nescio, you added some references but it is unclear which statement in the article they support (e.g. the study that compares CK levels). JFW | T@lk 23:44, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

ICD-10

Arcadian observed that there is no ICD-10 code for rhabdomyolysis. Various articles found through Google suggest that it should be T79.6 for traumatic and M68.2 ("specified muscle conditions") for non-traumatic. JFW | T@lk 22:22, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

hello

i was interested in this topic sicne i have had it recently but i saw that this is almost the same inforation that is on a real phabdomyolysis site on the internet wrote by medical people and its not verry hepful.

thank, Wiki brah 19:20, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

It's probably because medical people wrote this page as well. Perhaps I can clarify some things and improve the page as we go. JFW | T@lk 01:01, 26 December 2005 (UTC)

MDMA as a cause

There is no evidence (cited or otherwise) that MDMA is a chemical cause of muscle breakdown. It is possible that (indirectly) induced hyperthermia could lead to physical muscle breakdown, but not chemical.

Stating that MDMA is a cause of severe muscle breakdown, potentially leading to renal failure, is simply negligent.

MDMA can cause neuroleptic malignant syndrome, in which marked rhabdomyolysis is well recognised. JFW | T@lk 21:43, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The fact that MDMA can trigger rhabdomyolysis is now sourced in the "causes" section. I invite the original poster to search on the keywords "rhabdomyolysis" and "MDMA" at http://pubmed.gov/ if several dozen more publications are desired. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

While MDMA can be linked as a cause, I believe that a notice stating that it is much more frequent if the user is suffering from hyperpyrexia, muscle rigidity, or hyper-reflexia, as stated in http://bja.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/96/6/678#SEC4 (cited on the main page as 14). In a regular person not suffering from any of those, the risk of Rhabdomyolysis is much lower. 207.35.14.167 (talk) 08:31, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

(1) I think you should read the Neuroleptic malignant syndrome article.

(2) MDMA directly causes the overheating, muscle rigidity, etc. You seem to believe that if you're already running a high fever (perhaps because you're sick), then the addition of MDMA might trigger rhabdo. This isn't what happens. Here's what actually happens: MDMA causes rhabdo by getting you overheated, overworking your muscles, and helping you get dehyrdated. Given this, your request basically boils down to saying that if you didn't get any complications from MDMA, then you didn't get any complications from MDMA. I think the average reader is able to figure that out.

I don't really see any way to expand the information on MDMA without giving it undue weight in the article. However, if you really want to include the information, I could certainly add a (fully cited, factually accurate) paragraph that explains in detail exactly how MDMA causes rhabdo. We could justify it as an example of the complexity of chemical interactions, or something like that. As a point of fact, it won't be possible in that paragraph to suggest that MDMA is benign, however, so if that's your POV, then you might prefer that such details remained on my list of "probably not important enough to include." WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Tasers and Stun Guns

Perhaps an additional statement regarding the use of tasers and stun guns should be added as a cause of Rhabdomyolysis. I see that "Electric Current" is included, but as a nurse, I have treated many psychiatric patients who were tasered by the police and who became ill with Rhabdomyolysis as a result - some seriously, requiring a stay in ICU before the primary, psychiatric condition could be treated.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.246.224.248 (talk • contribs)

Can you identify a publication that says stun guns are specifically involved? Even if none of your tasered patients were drunk, high, engaged in strenuous exercise, or otherwise already on the high-risk list, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is its verifiability in an independent publication with a reputation fact-checking, not whether or not we believe it to be true. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:43, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

It is true, as one might guess, and I've added it with an apporpriate citation.FelixFelix ^talk 10:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Rhabdomyolysis and Lactose Poisoning

I was admiited to Bankstown Hospital on January 19th, 2007, after collapsing with Legionaires Disease and renal failure. Unfortunately, I am lactose-intolerant, but was force-fed a normal diet for the four weeks I was in a coma. I lost over 40kgs. On my discharge summary, it stated I was diagnosd with Rdabdomyolysis on admission. My contention is the lactose poisoning may have caused this, given my reactins were phusically similar to previous attacks of lactose poisoning. The discharge statement is false also because while I was losing weight and maintaining zero kidney function, the hospital staff informed a nurse from another department that there was no clue as to the cause of my muscle breakdown: which ocurred after my admission. Reference discharge summary Bankstown Lidcombe Hospital 21/03/2007; patient MRN [REMOVED] --Alarchdu (talk) 12:55, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm affraid that unless your case is reported in the medical literature we cannot reproduce your account. Encyclopedias are meant to be verifiable and not contain original research.

If you think "lactose poisoning" caused rhabdomyolysis, I would recommend you discuss this with your own physician at the first instance, rather than trying to create a new diagnostic entity. Searching Pubmed (a database of all medical research since the 1950s) does not give any results, indicating that lactose intolerance is not a generally recognised cause of rhabdomyolysis.

It bears pointing out that lactose does not normally enter the bloodstream in lactose intolerance. Quite the opposite: it is not absorbed properly at all. It is therefore unlikely to directly affect muscle or kidney function. JFW | T@lk 06:34, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Fever and antibiotics are known triggers for rhabdomyolysis. The simplest explanation for your rhabdomyolysis is your infection, not things that happened after you'd already developed all the signs of rhabdomyolysis (like the kidney failure that you say you had at the time of admission). If you still have concerns about this, there's really nothing like sitting down with your regular doc and all your test results to sort out whether or not your admission dx is correct. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:35, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Collaboration

I'd be happy to help... but I don't know much about this topic or what the article's needs are. Can someone post a task list here, or a vision of what the article might look like at the end (beyond than "longer")? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:55, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

The article does not presently conform to WP:MEDMOS. There are sections with non-standard headings, and there is no useful list of signs and symptoms - the first thing someone would look for.  Done

There is a substantial amount of content that is presently unsourced. Some of the sources below may assist, but they need to be footnoted rather than listed at the bottom.

There is no epidemiology (for which sources may be hard to find) or a section on prognosis.  Done

Compare this article with similar medical featured articles (pneumonia, prostate cancer). JFW | T@lk 14:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

We've made some progress. What's next? Is there a particular section that you'd like to have sourced or expanded? Should we re-invite WPMED folks to come take a look before the topic changes on Monday? WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:45, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Moved from the article

The following sources were mentioned in the article:

• Dennis Ausiello; Goldman, Lee. Cecil Textbook of Medicine Single Volume e-dition -- Text with Continually Updated Online Reference. Philadelphia, PA: W.B. Saunders Company. ISBN 0721639011.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Edward Benz; David Weatherall; David Warrell; Cox, Timothy J.; Firth, John B. Oxford Textbook of Medicine. Oxford [Oxfordshire]: Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198569785.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Holt SG, Moore KP (2001). "Pathogenesis and treatment of renal dysfunction in rhabdomyolysis". Intensive care medicine. 27 (5): 803–11. PMID 11430535.
  Subsequent reply:
  • Korantzopoulos P, Galaris D, Papaioannides D (2002). "Pathogenesis and treatment of renal dysfunction in rhabdomyolysis". Intensive care medicine. 28 (8): 1185, author reply 1186. PMID 12400515.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Llach F, Felsenfeld AJ, Haussler MR (1981). "The pathophysiology of altered calcium metabolism in rhabdomyolysis-induced acute renal failure. Interactions of parathyroid hormone, 25-hydroxycholecalciferol, and 1,25-dihydroxycholecalciferol". N. Engl. J. Med. 305 (3): 117–23. PMID 6894630.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• de Meijer AR, Fikkers BG, de Keijzer MH, van Engelen BG, Drenth JP (2003). "Serum creatine kinase as predictor of clinical course in rhabdomyolysis: a 5-year intensive care survey". Intensive care medicine. 29 (7): 1121–5. doi:10.1007/s00134-003-1800-5. PMID 12768237.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
• Baggaley, P. (1997). "Rhabdomyolysis". Retrieved 2007-10-14.

I have moved them here now, but they might be useful as sources once they can be footnoted. The personal webpage is interesting, but primarily as a source for further references. JFW | T@lk 14:54, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Image

This article could really use an image to help the reader relate to what is being said. If anyone has an image that could be applied, please upload it to the Wikimedia Commons so we can place it on the article. Thanks. Cyclonenim (talk) 17:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you have any ideas about what that image should communicate? My imagination has utterly failed me today. "Here's a person with rhabdomyolysis: note the swollen elbow" seems like it communicates only slightly more useful information than "Here's a picture of a hospital. Rhabdomyolysis is normally treated in hospitals." (If we're just looking for something to be decorative, then I suppose that even these pathetic ideas would be acceptable, but I suspect that you had a more serious goal in mind.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I would not immediately object to an image of a collapsed building, as crush injury was the first well-recognised cause for rhabdomyolysis. But real illustrative images would be of the myoglobin molecule, the microscopic pathology of acute tubular necrosis, and perhaps a haemofiltration machine. JFW | T@lk 11:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

I've added a picture of myoglobin (swiped from the Myoglobinuria page). I found a pic of a hemodialysis machine on Wikipedia, but not a hemofiltration machine. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:21, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I've found a photo of a bombed-out building that I think illustrates the idea of a major disaster. I'm not entirely satisfied with the caption and would be happy to have anyone else improve it. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:05, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see the image relevant to the article at all. Mykhal (talk) 19:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Sources

At the moment we are citing some very basic science papers and a review from a Saudi low-impact journal. I don't think these are tremendously useful sources, and I think we should strive to build the article around comprehensive reviews in high-impact journals.

I've found the following:

• PMID 17338959 (Eur J Int Med, not very high impact but comprehensive)
• PMID 17909702 (Intern Emerg Med, again IF low)
• PMID 17079586 (Pediatrics, more informational on children but free fulltext)
• PMID 15774072 (Crit Care, comprehensive and free)
• PMID 10906171 (J Am Soc Nephrol, free but from the renal perspective - by the team that also wrote the last Lancet seminar on ARF)
• PMID 11898964 (Am Fam Physician, free, from the primary care perspective but usually very good)
• PMID 11430535 (Intensive Care Med, renal perspective)

I will read the Crit Care paper and possibly the JASN one to see which one would be most useful - probably both. JFW | T@lk 11:15, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Given that the list of "causes" was largely unreferenced, I have replaced it entirely with a list based mainly on the Crit Care 2005. The list of drugs in that article was very long, often with no mention of the mechanism (apart from diuretics causing hypokalemia). I have therefore mentioned only the most important ones. PMID 15021204 is an article specifically on drug-induced RM in children. I'm not sure if we should reintroduce the PMID 17344731 (Ann Saudi Med) reference - it almost 10 years old in a low-impact journal. This is a list in the 2006 Pharmacy Times.

I'm reproducing the EBM Guidelines article reference here. JFW | T@lk 13:41, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Statins

I don't think we can support statins as an agreed cause any longer (except perhaps in the specific named case, which I haven't looked up):

A matched-control observational study at Kaiser Permanente indicates that statin initiation did not appear to be associated with an increased risk for rhabdomyolysis, with all patients having a rate of rhabdomyolysis of about 0.2 per 1000 person-years. A review of randomized clinical trials agrees that there is no association.

Should we delete statins from the list? Does anyone know more about this than I do? (The first ref here might be useful for a new epidemiology section.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. On statin we are citing a very carefully constructed observational study on the risk of myopathy and rhabdomyolysis. Every review I have looked at during the preparation of my contributions mentions statins prominently. That kind of consensus in the literature is not displaced by the papers you have linked. All we can do, if you insist, is citing both views in an NPOV manner: "Many studies [1],[2] but not all,[3] [4] show that statin use, especially together with fibrates, increases the risk of myopathy and rhabdomyolysis. JFW | T@lk 07:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Since the sources I found are very new, I'm not at all surprised that their conclusions are not cited in older works. I'd be fine with listing all the sources, but right now the only source listed in the article is the Crit Care review, and it provides no actual data that statins (except cerivastatin) are associated with an increased rate of rhabdomyolysis. What's the PMID for the study you want to cite? WhatamIdoing (talk) 20:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

PMID 15572716. JFW | T@lk 22:04, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Bicarbonatecruft

The article made it out as if bicarbonate infusion is the standard of care, and supports this largely with non-clinical research. In fact, the CritCare2005 paper makes it clear that there is not a lot of evidence that bicarbonate makes any difference on outcomes. I am moving the content here for consideration:

If the exacerbating cause includes overdose of skeletal muscle relaxants and/or tricyclic antidepressants, the treatment protocols include gastric decontamination. This procedure is fairly effective because the anticholinergic effects of tricyclics and cyclobenzaprine delay gastric emptying; and, therefore, it becomes possible to obtain tablet residues even after significant time elapse. Ventricular arrhythmias, QRS widening, or intraventricular conduction abnormalities should be treated with sodium bicarbonate 1 meq/kg IV bolus and repeated if arrhythmias persist. This should be followed by IV infusion of sodium bicarbonate to produce an arterial pH of 7.5; the mechanism of sodium bicarbonate's action in this role is unknown. However, sodium bicarbonate's beneficial effect on kidney function is known to be via the effects of alkalinisation both increasing the urinary solubility of myoglobin leading to its increased excretion and stabilizing ferryl myoglobin complex so preventing myoglobin-induced lipid peroxidation.

I also feel that we should not be using case reports where better studies (preferably reviews or trials) are available. JFW | T@lk 07:25, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Vitamin D

About the calcium-phosphate-Vitamin D issue: Are you aware of any reports of exogenous Vitamin D supplementation? It seems (from the theoretical perspective) that it might interrupt that vicious cycle. WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Vitamin D is only part of the problem. The hypocalcaemia is mainly due to the hyperphosphataemia, but PMID 6894630 showed low vitamin D levels. Treatment of the hypocalcaemia is associated with "overshoot" hypercalcaemia in the later stages. I am not aware of any studies showing a benefit of vitamin D in this setting. JFW | T@lk 02:38, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

On reflection, administering vitamin D will simply increase the amount of calcium available for precipitation with phosphate. It might be a bad idea. If the hypocalcaemia was causing arrhythmias or tetany I'd treat gently with some calcium gluconate. JFW | T@lk 15:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Bywaters

PMID 2279155 is a fascinating historical account on how the doctors at the RPMS/Hammersmith discovered the mechanism of rhabdomyolysis. It turns out that many of their discoveries had already been made in Messina and during WWI, and that they rediscovered much of this; this was however without the benefit of their library facilities, because London was being bombed etc. When rereading the "pathophysiology" paragraph I cannot help but notice how much these guys discovered and how little has changed since then.

On an unrelated note, Bywaters makes the astonishing mention of Ludwig Wittgenstein assisting the team in Newcastle, specifically his skill in preparing lungs from autopsied patients for inspection! JFW | T@lk 21:58, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

GA review

General comments

• Prose still a bit abrupt and technical, try to reduce the number of parentheses.
  • Thanks for your copyedit. I will try to do some more; I don't think we can do away with the parentheses and at the same time explain all the jargon. JFW | T@lk 09:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Specific comments

• "The absence of myoglobin in the urine does not rule out rhabdomyolysis, but its presence in the urgent setting may be indicative of impending kidney damage" - I don't know what "in the urgent setting" means.
  • The article explains elsewhere that myoglobin has a short half-life. JFW | T@lk 09:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
  •  Done - I've removed it because it is of no relevance to anyone. JFW | T@lk 16:01, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
• ATP is not a source of energy, it is an energy-transfer molecule.
  •  Done I have corrected this. JFW | T@lk 09:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
• Calcium increases reactive oxygen species? I've not heard that before, needs a reference.
  • This is from the Vanholder source. I will dig out the paper on which this premise was added. JFW | T@lk 09:47, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

I'll put this on hold for now, but its almost there. Tim Vickers (talk) 02:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Vanholder base their mention of calcium-related free radical generation on PMID 8821813 - I have no access to that journal from home. doi:10.1007/BF00296670 seems to discuss this, and PMID 2876985 indicates that calcium simply potentiates free radical toxicity rather than being the prime suspect. JFW | T@lk 10:07, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Looks to me like Ca2+ activates a phospholipase that damages the mitochondrion, which will cause ROS production. I've changed the article to say this for now but if the more specific refs contradict this feel free to change it back. This seemed off to me since calcium isn't a redox-active transition metal, so can't produce ROS directly. Anyway, looks good now, I'll list this as a GA. Congratulations everybody! Tim Vickers (talk) 17:03, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Tim! JFW | T@lk 21:06, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Remaining issues

Tim's GA review has prompted me to give the article another look. I have changed some references to higher-quality sources, tried to eliminate more technospeak and parentheses, and improved the "list of causes" by splitting the list of pharmacological causes.

Issues that remain as far as I am concerned:

• It would be nice to have a photomicrograph of myolysed muscle and/or necrosed tubules.

  Asked Emmanuelm, one of our pathologists. JFW | T@lk 13:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• We should have a picture of a haemofiltration machine - I will try to acquire one at work. Alternatively, a nice picture of a bag of normal saline would be illustrative.

   Done Image of haemodialysis machine was added. JFW | T@lk 13:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• There are two redlinks: International Society of Nephrology and Haff disease.

   Done JFW | T@lk 13:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

• There is still relatively little mentioned about prognosis. I have not found much information in my various sources. Lots of other secondary sources repeat the mantra that the prognosis of rhabdo depends on the cause.

  Had another search - most sources deal specifically with one particular cause (e.g. burns - PMID 18182927). I suspect this section may not be expanded. JFW | T@lk 13:04, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Much of this is not crucial for GA, but would enhance the article and make it more likely to become a FA. JFW | T@lk 12:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

Changes

I trawled through today's changes, and I'm not sure about the removal of this sentence: "High potassium levels occur in traumatic rhabdomyolysis but not necessarily in other forms." Do we have a source to support this trauma-but-not-others claim? WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:02, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd be surprised if you do find one-potassium would tend to be higher with more extensive rhabdo-but there's no reason that trauma per se would do so.FelixFelix ^talk 22:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Yet this is what the sources mention. I would not remove content that has a good reference behind it unless you can provide good evidence that (1) the source is wrong, (2) the source has been superseded, (3) there are exceptions to a generalisation made by the source etc etc. JFW | T@lk 07:14, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

The rationale for the critical care review article stating that PD is less effective for Rhabdo is that it's not as effective at removing potassium efficiently-as you can see that is based on the one cited reference in the article (number 144); Nolph K, Ann Intern Med 1969, 71:317-336. [1]. The Chitalia article (2002) that I referenced essentially looks at modern tidal PD vs what they call continuous equilibrating peritoneal dialysis, what we would call CAPD-which is what they had back in 1969-and found it was much better at solute removal. My view was that making this differentiation in the article was unnecessarily technical and a bit spurious, hence my previous edit-which I still think is better. Of course PD is only used for acute renal failure, to my knowledge, in the third world anyway, and I'm not terribly surprised that a critical care review would be a bit ignorant on PD. But there you go.FelixFelix ^talk 08:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Rhabdomyolysis and Crossfit

I learned about rhabdomyolysis from this article on the Crossfit phenomenon. This condition seems to be a big issue in the Crossfit community. They even have a mascot called Uncle Rhabdo — a vomiting clown.

The article needs to say more about exercise and rhabdomyolysis, since that seems to be the context in which most people will encounter it.--Isaac R (talk) 17:35, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm afraid most people will encounter it under a pile of rubble. I think this is a repulsive reference and deserves as little attention as possible. JFW | T@lk 15:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Rhabdomyolysis is a repulsive disease; does that mean we should remove this article? Content is chosen based on importance and relevence, not its inoffensiveness. Isaac R (talk) 15:44, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm slow today, I just now got the "pile of rubble" reference. I think you'll find that the number of people caught up in fitness fads is comparable to the number of people injured in collapsing buildings. It may be harder to sympathize with fadists than with victims of earthquakes or wars, but that doesn't make their issues any less significant. Isaac R (talk) 16:27, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Can you provide a reliable reference (ideally a scientific journal) that goes beyond the current statements in the article (which already mentions "extreme physical exercise"), and says that this is relatively common among exercise enthusiasts? The mere fact of them joking about it isn't enough, IMO. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm not describing an epidemic of Rhabdomyolysis, I'm talking about a cultural phenomenon amongst followers of a fitness fad. Awareness of the condition is documented in the article I pointed to; statistics are beside the point.¶There must be a lot of self-diagnosis of Rhabdomyolysis in the fitness community, most of it probably based on misinformation. I think it would be very useful if somebody with real medical expertise (not me!) were to look at the perceptions of this condition and contrast them with medical reality.Isaac R (talk) 16:03, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

...which is not a task for Wikipedia. Unless you can provide a source like WhatamIdoing suggested I'm really not sure if there is anything we can include. JFW | T@lk 18:08, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Ice Climbing

J. Campbell's notes in the [2] thread suggested the Rhabdomyolysis link to me. This note is more or less analogous to the Crossfit note above, but substitute "Screaming Barfies" for "Uncle Rhabdo". In both cases, we have a community coming up with a black comedy term to describe a very common but extraordinarily painful shared experience. The barfies are a very common occurrence in ice climbing, and occasionally happen in other forms of cold weather climbing (I got them yesterday morning on my right side after using mechanical ascenders, right hand high, on a long fixed line). I've never heard of a case where symptoms did not go away after a few minutes (it's a bit like eating too much wasabi, only it lasts longer and is a whole lot less fun).

The same arguments against including Crossfit in this page will of course apply to ice climbing and the dreaded Screaming Barfies. However, I strongly suspect that J. Campbell is correct in his guess that the barfies are a mild form of rhabdo. If he is, then the assertion that rhabdo is a rare occurrence is then incorrect. --Eric H.66.193.41.200 (talk) 21:03, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

You've sent me to a thread on some discussion forum. It is not entirely clear what makes you think that this phenomenon is identical to rhabdomyolysis. For one thing, the symptoms of clinical rhabdomyolysis last much longer than the few minutes you are referring to. Just like the CrossFit clown, much of this seems speculation rather than established medical fact. Let me know if there are any reliable reports on the matter. JFW | T@lk 19:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Diff?

Should Myoglobinemia redirect here? WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:59, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

 Done. The source was poor, too. JFW | T@lk 06:56, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Grateful reader

I would like to note that I am very greatfull for this information. My son who is 21 suffered from Rhabdomyolysis not from exercise or under a heap of rubble, but from simply falling asleep on his arm while helping his uncle work on his rental property out of town. The property didn't have any furniture so they slept on the floor. My son woke up not being able to move his arm and had to be rushed to the hospital. 3 surgeries later and dialysis he is home trying to figure out how to lead a productive life without the use of his left arm. This happens more than one might think and under some bizarre circumstances. ACS76.122.144.187 (talk) 01:27, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

ACS, I'm sorry to hear your boy has had such a rough time and I hope things are a bit better. Hopefully the Wikipedia page was informative; let us know if anything seems incorrect or could be phrased in a more sensitive manner. JFW | T@lk 09:30, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Caffeine

Two users recently added a reference to PMID 10592946. This is a single case report on rhabdomyolysis after drinking 15 litres of oolong tea; even the abstract suggests that the link between its caffeine content and rhabdomyolysis may have been confounded by the conincidental hyponatraemia. I cannot imagine this is sufficient, and the major reviews (Crit Care and JASN) both ignore the report. JFW | T@lk 07:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

PMID 2642675, also a case report, would possibly have been better, as pure caffeine was used. PMID 1749057 mentions caffeine in combination. These reports predate Crit Care and JASN, and the fact that they don't include caffeine in their lists of causes probably reflects the fact that the link is poorly established. JFW | T@lk 07:30, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Case series

PMID 16267412 has a large case series (475) of rhabdomyolysis. Some potentially interesting data, but I can't see whether this has been quoted in the reviews or not. JFW | T@lk 21:32, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Tying Up or Equine Exertional Rhabdomyolysis

This article needs to reference the article on "tying up," otherwise known as Equine Exertional Rhabdomyolysis. Veterinary medicine is a lot more familiar with the condition.Godofredo29 (talk) 19:30, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

You mean more familiar than human medicine? Perhaps this is a candidate for "see also", with a dedicated article somewhere else. JFW | T@lk 22:51, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Accutane

An anonymous contributor added that Accutane, a retinoic acid derivative used in acne, could cause rhabdomyolysis. A quick Pubmed search here shows that there are three case reports on the subject, and a further small study that shows that elevated CK in people on Accutane is a benign phenomenon. Given that we have no secondary sources discussing this, I don't think there is much point in mentioning this in the article.

There are numerous case reports on "some substance" causing rhabdomyolysis. This is easy research (muscle pain + high CK + patient taking odd drug + patient gets better when drug gets stopped), and often there are significant problems with the quality of the research. We must stick with our main sources when listing chemical causes of rhabdomyolysis. JFW | T@lk 20:28, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Rhabdomyolysis and Renal disease

It was suggested in the body of the text that liver failure is associated with rhabdomyolysis in around 25% of cases. This is supported by an article in 'critical care'. However, if you look at their source for that figure, it is a small study of patients with non-traumatic rhabdomyolysis (PMID: 2343880). Their definition of hepatic impairment included patients with only a high AST, ALT and LDH, all of which are released from damaged muscles and are not specific for liver disease in this condition. This fact often leads to rhabdomyolysis being confused with acute liver failure if a CK test is not performed particularly in non-traumatic cases where there may be only non-specific symptoms. I changed the text to reflect this fact. gearoidmm (talk) 22:52, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing that, it makes a lot more sense now. JFW | T@lk 23:45, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

NEJM review

Will need to pull this and update the article if needed: http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/361/1/62 JFW | T@lk 10:27, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Here are a few other recent (post-2006, as there are few articles past that year) reviews. I'm no doctor though, so I'm not clear how ultimately useful they are.

Elsayed EF, Reilly RF (2009). "Rhabdomyolysis: a review, with emphasis on the pediatric population". Pediatr. Nephrol. 25 (1): 7–18. doi:10.1007/s00467-009-1223-9. PMID 19529963. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Bagley WH, Yang H, Shah KH (2007). "Rhabdomyolysis". Intern Emerg Med. 2 (3): 210–8. doi:10.1007/s11739-007-0060-8. PMID 17909702. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)

Khan FY (2009). "Rhabdomyolysis: a review of the literature". Neth J Med. 67 (9): 272–83. PMID 19841484. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Camp NE (2009). "Drug- and toxin-induced Rhabdomyolysis". J Emerg Nurs. 35 (5): 481–2. doi:10.1016/j.jen.2009.05.007. PMID 19748039. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Circéus (talk) 12:58, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Epidemiology

That section probably needs to be adjusted a bit. A search on exercise induced rhabdomyolysis netted this article (annoying ads, but seemed to link to good sources) that exercise induced rhabdomyolysis may be more common that the article gives it credit for. In addition the rest of the article is similarly focused on trauma causes and should probably be adjusted in light of WP:NPOV#UNDUE. In this case it's not really about the prevalence of viewpoints, but about the prevalence of the causes of the condition. - Taxman ^Talk 16:22, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

That source only focuses on one single cause, and its references are ancient (none after 1990). I'm not very keen on adjusting the section for this. JFW | T@lk 20:41, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Some of its 'sources' use non-standard definitions. In a formal study, a rhabdo dx typically requires CK at least five times normal, which makes 'If you've ever had stiff and tender muscles after exercising, you've probably had a slight case of rhabdomyolysis' pure hyperbole.

Some 'facts' are quite wrong: For example, women are not 'immune' to rhabdo.[3]

Additionally, it doesn't actually provide any generalizable information about the incidence. Sure: it may be more common among people that ran a marathon within the last day or two, when compared to the general population, but you can't conclude from this statement that running is more likely to produce rhabdo than abusing cocaine, or that more people run marathons than abuse cocaine.

Overall, I agree with JFW; the source is not very useful. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:00, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, but that's just one link I got from a google search. There are more and my point was that I think it indicates that good sources would reflect a different prioritization based on the prevalence. I'm not a specialist though, so I'll leave it to those qualified. Just don't miss the potential message because the link is flawed is all I'm saying. - Taxman ^Talk 18:23, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, the good sources disagree with your fundamental assertion. Exercise-induced rhabdo is apparently rather uncommon.

What is apparently common is people misapplying the technical term to a situation that is not severe enough to be diagnosed as rhabdo. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:54, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Discuss the muscle more?

I've re-read the article and can't help notice there is very little discussion of the consequence of rhabdomyolysis on the muscle tissue itself. As noted above, these can be severe, yet there is not even a suggestion that Rhabdomyolysis can lead to complete loss of muscle function! Circéus (talk) 13:24, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

The sources are quiet about this. From clinical experience it seems that while muscle cells are destroyed, the muscle tissue does seem to heal and regain its contractile power. I am unaware of long-term studies into muscle strength after rhabdomyolysis. Bizarrely, muscle is a relatively poorly studied tissue in medicine! JFW | T@lk 00:46, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

Apparently uncomplicated rhabdomyolysis (if the broader statements found in some of the reviews I noted above are to be followed) seems to elicit little to no linical interest, and would appear to be about as harmless as a minor hematoma or light sprain. I still think some explicit statement to that fact should be put in. Circéus (talk) 01:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)

I came across an explicit source, though it's in French: Bollaert, PE (1997). Les Rhabdomyolyses (PDF). 15e journées internationales de mises au point en anesthésie-réanimation. Paris: MAPAR. pp. 599–610. ISBN 2-905356-19-7. Les formes modérées, paucisymptomatiques de rhabdomoyolyse guériront spontanément en l'absence de mesures thérapeutiques agressives {{cite conference}}: Unknown parameter |coauthors= ignored (|author= suggested) (help). Circéus (talk) 02:20, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Images

We could use an image of urine from someone with rhabdomyolysis. Will take a photo next time I have a case unless someone already has one.Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 08:40, 4 May 2010 (UTC)