User talk:Jimbo Wales

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k another question, doh

k: how do i add this:User:GreatOrangePumpkin/EditCounterOptIn.js. i know how create this, but what should i write there. thx. hope u answer me. -- ♫Greatorangepumpkin♫ T 16:01, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Anything, the content doesn't matter. Throwaway85 (talk) 02:18, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Tanks

Thanks for giving me his welcome. You were very kind. Augusto Antonio (talk) 14:29, 17 August 2010 (CEST)

Regarding Wikipedia editors participating in Wikipedia Review

Hi Jimbo. Was wondering about this (other viewers of this page are welcome to comment also, of course).

Do comments made at Wikipedia Review exist, for the purpose of Wikipedia?

(A lot of this would apply to other sites too, but I am narrowing the question to Wikipedia Review for the moment.) I asked a few people about this, and most everyone agreed that in the case of true emergency -- such as an outing, a threat of violence, or a suicide threat -- it'd be ridiculous to pretend they don't exist. But what about in other cases? Opinion seems mixed.

Now there is is this: Wikipedia:Linking to external harassment, and Antandrus at User:Antandrus/observations on Wikipedia behavior has something to say about the matter. But both of these basically offer tactical advice: posts at external sites should be ignored because 1) you can't do anything about them, and 2) trying to will only encourage them and raise your stress level to no purpose. Well this is all well and good when applied to oneself, when applied to another editor, it is basically advice to look the other way and cross the street, which seems cowardly. And I also think we're supposed to ignore Wikipedia Review, but for various reasons this is becoming less possible.

Let me give an extreme-case example: Editor XYZ edits at Wikipedia and at Wikipedia Review, and there is no question that they are the same person because he allows that it's true. Let's say Wikipedia Editor ABC has, for some reason, willingly revealed his true identity. Suppose Editor ABC has a disfigured teenage daughter, as can be seen on Facebook. Suppose Editor XYZ posts jeering comments about his daughter's appearance. If he does this on Wikipedia, he'd be banned (I assume). But suppose he does it on Wikipedia Review. Would Wikipedia editors (including Editor ABC) be required to pretend these posts don't exist, and continue to engage in collegial give-and-take with this person on other issues?

Granted this is an extreme example, but it's not an emergency. Unless there's a cogent argument otherwise, it seems to me that, short of the emergency situations described above, either posts at Wikipedia Review exist or they don't. So less-extreme examples would all either exist, or not. I think a case-by-case determination of existence would not be defensible (e.g., it would reasonable to say "No non-emergency external posts exist" or "Posts A and B both exist, but Post B is not so bad, so let's disregard it", but not reasonable to say "Post A is pretty bad, so it exists, but Post B is not so bad, so it doesn't exist").

I also realize that a Wikipedia editor can post anywhere off-wiki under a different identity. And of course there is the question of someone assuming another person's identity. And so forth. But again, these are technical issue. My question is is one of right: assuming no question of mistaken identity, do Wikipedians have the right to post basically anything (excluding the true emergencies described above) about other Wikipedia editors off-Wiki and remain in good standing here?

Although I have an opinion, either way is at least defensible. It would be reasonable to say "Barring true emergencies, external posts do not exist (and therefore Wikipedians can say whatever they want on external sites)" for tactical reasons, such as a fear of drama, or for ideological reasons ("It's a free world and a free internet"). As long as what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. I don't care as much about the answer as getting an answer, and I propose to continue gathering community input on the question. Thank you for your time and consideration, Herostratus (talk) 00:25, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Clarification questions: How could anyone be sure some name is truly the same person on both websites? If people say they are the same Elvis, or President Clinton, on both websites, when could that be a joke? Does the other website ensure 1-person usage? If the other website allows intruders to post under another user's name, and not allow unposting by the real user, the hate-post could be a permanent fake. Also, if they act hateful over there, they might also act in jest. Remember, the absolute identity of the person must be proven beforehand (not "Nerf Smith" v. "Nerf Smithy"), otherwise, any conclusion could be wrong, as warned in Argument from false premises. There are many chances for mistaken judgment. -Wikid77 (talk) 12:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

"Proven" is too strong. But many editors clearly acknowledge that they edit "over (t)here" under the same name, and for others there is sufficient evidence that it would be unreasonable to withhold the assumption of identity absent strong evidence to the contrary. I agree that a mere match of user names is neither sufficient nor necessary. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:30, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Do comments made at Wikipedia Review exist, for the purpose of Wikipedia? Herostratus, ontology is not a black-and-white issue. You might as well ask if red is black or white. - WAS 4.250 (talk) 13:55, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

The subject of WR has come up recently on one of the Climate Change pages and then on ChrisO's user page. My concern is with outside websites generally and I see two potential problems. One is that administrators/arbitrators/others in authority may make comments indicating prejudice on issues they're dealing with as administrators or arbitrators. For example, one of the administrators who is claiming "uninvolvement" in the CC pages recently posted negatively on an active CC editor at WR. This is a problem for that administrator as much as anyone, as it undermines his case that he is unbiased. The second potential problem is worse, which is use of outside websites to circumvent Wikipedia canvassing rules, to encourage participation on one side of a dispute. ScottyBerg (talk) 14:48, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be an implicit and not terribly subtle suggestion that there are agreed "emergency" cases wherein off-wiki statements become actionable on-wiki. I do not believe there is any such agreement. Certainly the case of off-wiki outing has been encountered many times before with very mixed results. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

As I recall, there was an arbcom case involving intelligent design where editors were held to have responsibility for off-wiki outing of other editors or similarly heinous actions, but were not required to maintain normal on-wiki standards of civility in off-wiki comments about other wiki editors. Someone will no doubt be able to find it in the archives. . . dave souza, talk 19:32, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Well, if someone can find that case, that'd be a good starting point if we want this to get off the ground. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 01:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Barry Kort (a.k.a Moulton) has spent the last few years experimenting with exactly where this line is. You could do worse than to start with http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Ethics/Moulton,_JWSchmidt's_investigation . - WAS 4.250 (talk) 16:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

The case dave souza is referring to may be this: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Intelligent Design, where there were statements such as "I see harassment by a large group of editors linked to Wikipedia Review" but also "Editors who have posted to Wikipedia Review have very reasonably objected to being described as... 'Wikipedia Review members'" Herostratus (talk) 17:08, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

It is reaffirmed by Jinbo

You kept silent the question. It is thought that the silence agreed positively.Do you abandon the authority of Wikipedia?　Is it agreed that the authority of Wikipedia Foundation is not applied to Wikipedia Japanese?Do you approve it for a domain donation[1]? It is your responsibility that makes an excuse. Japanese community is thought that you approved them. You should announce the excuse in Wikipedia Japanese.--山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 12:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

You already got a reply from Jimbo here. The discussion was moved to the archives to make place for new discussions. --Enric Naval (talk) 15:37, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Japanese community was resolved by the answer.The remark of Jinbo was translated by sysop. "Jinbo does not participate in Wikipedia Japanese". "I am not interested in Wikipedia Japanese". User_talk:Jimbo_Wales/Archive_63#Annulment_declaration_of_Wikipedia.27s_principles_and_Wikipedia:Policies_and_guidelines_in_Japanese_edition_3--山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 17:24, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I am very interested in Japanese Wikipedia. I am unable to read Japanese and therefore unable to participate directly. That is not the same as "not interested". I requested that several Japanese Wikipedians contact me separately to explain what I am being asked, because I really do not understand what you are saying. For example, when you talk about a "domain donation" I do not know what you mean.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:27, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

A trademark of "wikipedia" is used for the e-mail address of ja:Wikipedia:Info-ja　info-ja@wikipedia.jp.Jimbo contributes the trademark of "Wikipedia" or does the use permission. The person in charge of ja:Wikipedia:Info-ja possesses negotiation rights, and can protect the modification and the page of the content of the description. They disclose a use history and the IP address of each user to the police organization.--山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 04:46, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

You need to explain clearly what the issue is with Japanese Wikipedia. What exactly is occurring there that you think requires attention? The Wikimedia Foundation owns ja.wikipedia.org, as it does all other Wikipedias. They are not about to cede it to someone else. Fences&Windows 02:12, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Where are the other Japanese Wikipedians, User:山吹色の御菓子. We need to hear from them. --62.25.109.195 (talk) 17:14, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I did not plan it.It has been executed by sysop since about 2004. I opposed their ideas. Neither Japanese community nor syspo have the idea of consenting to the interrogation. This is because it is a decision by the vote by Japanese community. You (acceptable the deputy) should participate in Japanese Wikipedia if you want to question it. You are recommended to participate in thisja:Wikipedia:Help_for_Non-Japanese_Speakers. --山吹色の御菓子 (talk) 03:42, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

For sale?

Hi there. I'd like to buy Wikipedia; how much do you want for it? Tom (talk) 01:43, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Pointless; Wikipedia is already free, although not without value- and I think that that is the distinction you are missing. Rodhullandemu 01:51, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I am prepared to be exceptionally generous with my offer though. Tom (talk) 02:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I think the going price is about $1,696,268,500,000 (about $500,000 per article), so not cheap. There's also all the royalties you'll need to pay to all the article authors on top of that. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WikiProject Japan! 05:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I demand compensation damn it!! Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:26, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll give you £270,000 and a multipack bag of walker's crisps. If we can complete the deal within two weeks, I'll throw in a pair of K-Swiss trainers. Tom (talk) 11:05, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Jimbo, Walkers crisps are a savoury snack and not an exclusive brand of sports footwear; I think you are being being offered a poor value product... LessHeard vanU (talk) 17:07, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Exactly. Not "exceptionally generous" at all. A least you could offer 70 virgins in an afterlife paradise and thirty pieces of silver. - WAS 4.250 (talk) 17:24, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

How dare the both of you! My final offer is £310,000, a used Sweeney Todd DVD, any five books from my bookcase, three multipacks of Walker's crisps and a Paul Smith dressing gown. I can't offer virgins or pieces of silver, but if it helps I am willing to pay the money only in 20 pence pieces, which look silver. Tom (talk) 17:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I withdraw my offer. I'm going to try and buy google instead. Tom (talk) 20:13, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

My sock puppet case

Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Hinata I need you to checkuser me please. Thanks for the understanding. Hinata talk 14:38, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Please? Hinata talk 18:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, Checkuser is not for establishing innocence, however useful that might be to you, and although Jimbo could technically do this, in practice he does not. If a CU user decides that a check is appropriate, it will happen. Meanwhile, if you have nothing to worry about, I'd sit back and relax. The truth, as far as can be ascertained, will out, and in the absence of cogent evidence, you should not worry. Rodhullandemu 00:29, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Threats from the JIDF

Hi Jimbo, in case you have not been informed, "David Appletree" aka User:Einsteindonut the founder of the Kahanist Jewish Internet Defense Force has been using sockpuppets to make on-wiki threats [2] and [3] to disrupt the operation of Wikipedia once he is community banned. Appletree has been careful to protect his real identity, but should these threats come to fruition, I can provide information on sources that have disclosed his real name and they can presumably provide contact details should the Foundation decide to take legal action against him.--Peter cohen (talk) 17:15, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it far more likely that you will be blocked for making personal attacks than that the Foundation would take legal action against him.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 17:19, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can tell that would be an incredibly silly thing to do. I have convinced myself in the past (1) that the JIDF is openly attacking the Wikipedia community in an attempt to censor/embellish the JIDF article, and (2) that the one "attack" against the JIDF that it tends to react most strongly to is the allegation that it is a one-man operation. (I am not sure if this allegation ever made it into the article in any form, but the user who is behind the JIDF accounts such as Einsteindonut generally goes ballistic when it comes up in Wikipedia-internal discussions.) Connecting the dots, it appears that the JIDF is a one-man operation, by someone with severe ego problems, probably thinking of himself as an internet super-hero.

You may not know this, but Peter Cohen once made it onto a hate list that was posted on the JIDF website and which also includes FayssalF. [4] See Talk:Jewish Internet Defense Force/Archive 12#Final quote and link to JIDF Guide to WIkipedia Editors for some of the context. The post by a likely Einsteindonut sockpuppet (deleted by Spartaz) was an attempt to defend this edit, which introduced the hate list as a reference into the article. Hans Adler 20:12, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

None of that justifies insults and personal attacks on Wikipedia.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 14:54, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. To follow your logic, what we should do when faced with an organisation trying to attack us is 1) goad them on by suing them, thus giving publicity to their problems and claims and 2) ban them and ignore them completely, which historically has done oh-so much to keep people away. Ironholds (talk) 19:16, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I am not saying that it justifies insults and personal attacks. But you are attacking an active, constructive member of our community for stepping over a line while over-reacting to a self-promoter who has been trampling over several lines repeatedly in the last years, and who is basically invulnerable because he doesn't care about the fate of any of his incarnations. I doubt that this is what you are trying to do. It seems to me that you have at least two reasonable options:

• Rebuking Peter cohen publicly and simultaneously making it clear that you understand the real origin of the problem and that you support assertive action against the self-promoter(s).
• Telling Peter cohen quietly to stop over-reacting, while not really examining the case in detail, or without bothering to do anything about Einsteindonut or his current incarnation User:WPYellowStars. (Btw, I am not sure why so far no admin has bothered to block this account for the blatant WP:USERNAME violation – offensive and trolling –, which is being reaffirmed by the huge image on the user page. Instead, the SPI case is apparently being ignored. That may well be the kind of thing that causes such over-reactions.)

But rebuking Peter cohen publicly while apparently ignoring the root of the problem (sorry if I missed something – if you have said something about that it may not be sufficiently visible) is not a good reaction because it's counter-productive w.r.t. the ultimate goal of improving our social climate and retaining productive editors. Hans Adler 22:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

hi

hi jimbo wales Imo1234 (talk) 01:49, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Are you atheist???

Here is quote: [5] "The atheist Jimmy Wales was a lead founder of Wikipedia. Please feel free to contact the atheist Jimmy Wales"... If you are atheists, hten I stop editing wikipedia from today as I undertand its goals opposing God. However if you are not atheist - then I may have some hope for theistic wikipedia... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.132.239.216 (talk) 17:42, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Jimbo. If you are wondering what the hell this is all about, the best route into this unedifying spectacle is Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Hare Krishna. Basically this guy thinks we have a grudge against his religion because his POV and poor quality content is up for deletion. I would like to make him understand that there is no grudge and that good quality writing on religious subjects is very welcome but I don't think I am getting through. --DanielRigal (talk) 18:32, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

While I agree that the IP's comment was rude and uncalled for, and Jimbo's religion is irrelevant as far as Wikipedia's goals are concerned (to create the most comprehensive encyclopedia of knowledge ever created); I must however point out that bad English, poor grammar, and not following our procedure's when in good faith trying to contribute does not make someone's contributions unneeded nor unwanted. Please work with contributors who dont live up to your "standards", poor quality can be fixed and is not a reason to dismiss contributions made in good faith. POV is another issue, and yet we have plenty of POV-pushers who end up in the long run making contributions (though I would never call them good) that are kept around. Perhaps a mentor is in order if this IP wishes to truly help the encyclopedia.Camelbinky (talk) 19:28, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Comment / Request

Why aren't you active on other Wiki's that you understand the language of, like the Simple English Wiki? If you could leave a message on Simple talk (our equivalent to the Village pump), we would be very appreciative, and we'd know that our hard work isn't overlooked. Best, Battleaxe9872 ^Talk 20:45, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Because the English Wikipedia is bigger? Because we have meta? Because of real life? :| TelCoNaSpVe :| 03:05, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

You should know about this.

A few weeks ago, there was a proposed hook on DYK (did you know) about the FBI seal along with a picture of it.

I thought that the mechanics of WP were progressing with nobody stepping back and thinking what was better for Wikipedia overall. It was going through the usual process which would have resulted in it being on the front page. I, therefore, notified you not to intervene but for you to be able to use your wise thinking and understanding of the big picture of Wikipedia to offer advice.

Today, I bring to you a different matter, possibly less profound. There are lots of editors with conflicts of interest. We ignore them. However, if companies have a conflict of interest or people with identifiable corporate links, we jump all over them and often block them. This is not very equal treatment of people. I proposed that everyone should disclose their potential conflicts of interest. In doing so, the reliability and reputation of Wikipedia is increased.

Scientific journals do this all the time. If a Dow Chemical chemist writes an article about chemical X, even if Dow Chemical does not make it, the chemist will have a disclosure in their article saying "Francisco Gomez, Ph.D. receives support from the American Chemical Society and is on the speaker's bureau for Varian X-Ray systems".

People say that they don't want this. They say it is impossible. It is easily possible. One of many ways is to add a tab at the top of the article that says "disclaimers" or "disclosures" or "possible conflicts of interest". If someone edits the Russian Army article, they would say "Editor X, I am a member of the French Army" or "Editor Y, I am employed by a supplier of parts to the Russian Army".

If the consensus is that editors don't want this, then they are supporting the idea that it is ok to have undisclosed conflicts of interest. Wikipedia can live with it but Wikipedia's credibility would be greatly enhanced with better ethics and disclosures. If you have a profound idea, let us know! I will not post the links to the VP to avoid accusations of canvassing.

One problem is that editors will fiercely resist self regulation and don't want disclosures. That is the nature of the beast. Suomi Finland 2009 (talk) 01:03, 27 August 2010 (UTC)