Talk:Fungus

Medicinal use section

I believe this is a better paragraph for this section of the page...

Many species of medicinal mushrooms have been used in folk medicine for thousands of years. The use of medicinal mushrooms in folk medicine, is best documented in the East. Medicinal mushrooms are now the subject of study for many ethnobotanists and medical researchers. The ability of some mushrooms to inhibit tumor growth and enhance aspects of the immune system has been a subject of research for approximately 50 years. International mushroom research continues today, with a focus on mushroom's that may have hypoglycemic activity, anti-cancer activity, anti-pathogenic activity, and immune system enhancing activity. Discoveries so far include, that the oyster mushroom naturally contains significant amounts of lovastatin, and that certain fungi may be a future source of taxol[1]. To date, penicillin, lovastatin, ciclosporin, griseofulvin, cephalosporin, and ergometrine, are the most famous pharmaceuticals which have been isolated from the fungi kingdom.

However, this page is difficult to edit (constant reverts), so I am putting it here in hopes someone can change it for me!Jatlas (talk) 17:54, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

How is this better? Overlooking the grammar and prose problems, the "future source of taxol" claim is interesting, but it seems (to me) to be too speculative for inclusion in a general overview article, and the source of the claim is an article in Chinese, making it impossible for most to read more than the abstract. There's a POV problem with the phrases "significant amounts" and "most famous pharmaceuticals". However, I wouldn't mind dropping a few more "famous pharmaceutical" names in that section, if others think it is appropriate. Other opinions? Sasata (talk) 20:44, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Sasata that this draft would not improve this section. I can see that the first sentence, "Many species of medicinal mushrooms have been used in folk medicine for thousands of years" could be a lead in, but it will need a solid reference for this claim. In addition, "folk medicine" is a bit of a fluffy term (which folks have practised this medicine?). This area is a can of worms, because it invites bold claims that are by nature contentious. Taxol is a case in point—since the paper by Stierle et al here describing taxol production by a fungus, there hasn't been a follow-up study in high-profile journals (say, PNAS or the like) that have corroborated their findings or taken it further to larger-scale production by these fungi. Considering that they published this >15 years ago, and that this is a compound for cancer treatment, something seems amiss (mis-identification, insurmountable problems with scale up, patent issues, etc). So to err on the side of caution, I would keep this section brief and entirely free of speculation with regards to medicinal properties and future applications. Malljaja (talk) 22:13, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok... :( well I thought it was an improvement... Thanks for the opinions... Jatlas (talk) 17:24, 4 September 2009 (UTC) I still think including pharmaceuticals isolated from fungi would be an interesting addition to this section (or possibly a new section).Jatlas (talk) 17:28, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Which pharmaceuticals would you like to include in addition to those already given in the section (beta-lactams, lentinan, polysaccharide K)? Lovastatin is the only one I can see right now that may be missing, but I don't think that this justifies a section solely dedicated to fungal pharmaceuticals. The level of detail should probably correspond to entries of similar breadth (see e.g., industrial use of bacteria). The entries for these compounds and the fungi that make them are probably giving enough detail. Malljaja (talk) 18:00, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah I guess you guys are right... In that case, I have a few suggestions for editing what is currently in this section.

• "Certain mushrooms enjoy usage as therapeutics in traditional and folk medicines" ...seems redundant we should say either folk or traditional medicine.

Done. Malljaja (talk) 15:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

• "Research has identified compounds produced by these and other fungi that have inhibitory biological effects against viruses and cancer cells." Instead of virus it should read pathogens since many fungal compounds also inhibit bacteria. Also I think it should be mentioned that the inhibitory effect on cancer cells, is most due to up-regulation of the immune system and not a direct effect (i.e. mention biological response modifiers).

The citations that immediately follow are reference for activities against HIV. I prefer to leave it like that for clarity, and because anti-bacterial effects are already covered in the "Antibiotics" section and are not really in the purview of medicinal mushrooms (which may also produce antibiotics, but I'm not aware that they're competitive with those from moulds yet). The latter is an interesting but tricky topic (some compounds are cytotoxic, but others are immunomodulators, and to distinguish these effects is not straightforward in biological models), and difficult to accommodate. This would need a good citation—I'll look into this. Malljaja (talk) 15:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

• "Specific metabolites with biological or antimicrobial activities, such as polysaccharide-K, ergotamine, and β-lactam antibiotics, are routinely used in clinical medicine". Since inhibitory effect on pathogens is already mentioned, this sentence should be simplified to "Specific metabolites of mushrooms, such as polysaccharide-K, ergotamine, and β-lactam antibiotics, are routinely used in clinical medicine"

Done. Malljaja (talk) 15:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

• The lentinan and PSK sentences should be joined due to the fact their MOA and clinical application is practically identical.

I agree if the two compounds have very identical effects and uses, which I'm not sure that they have, since they differ in chemical composition—one is a β-glucan, the other a protein-bound carbohydrate (I've not been able to track down its structure, even on NCI). So I believe leaving this info in two sentences would be clearer—one talks of use as a clinical drug, the other of therapeutical use as an adjuvant. Malljaja (talk) 15:42, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Let me know what you think and lets make these changes if they are agreed upon.Jatlas (talk) 23:07, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the changes... PSK and lentinan are both β-glucans (although PSK does have a protein attached). Also, PSK does not have a structure, since is it is a collection of molecules and not a specific chemical (which is described in papers as being primary beta-glucan structures). PSK is a specific fraction that has been isolated from Turkey Tail (based upon molecular weight differentiation, I think...). I believe their clinical roles are both adjuvants for cancer therapy. So that was my reasoning for combining them. Well, I'll let you guys decide. Glad you made the other changes for me!Jatlas (talk) 18:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Medicinal use section link

I would like to place a "Main article" link for Medicinal mushrooms under the title of Medicinal use. Please let me know if this is allowed.Jatlas (talk) 17:21, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Sourcing of collage photo

File:Fungi collage.jpg has an error in its source information. The bottom left image is not File:Aspergillus.jpg. William Avery (talk) 21:13, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Recent edits by Ddusenbery

I've reverted an earlier edit by the above editor, and an expanded edit by the same editor was just reverted. I see a couple of problems with these edits. One, the new section "Behaviors" duplicates most of what is already in other sections of the entry + the assertion that fungi have "rolled up" to become animals, while interesting fodder for inspired debate, is a little simplistic. Secondly, the editor uses the same name as the author of the book he cites, so I think there's a potential conflict of interest issue. I'd urge the editor to engage in discussion here, also to clarify whether he indeed is the author in question. Thanks. Malljaja (talk) 20:27, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree that this addition is suspect. Besides, the animals do not nest within the fungi phylogenetically so there is no reason to say that fungi evolved into animals. de Bivort 03:28, 30 January 2010 (UTC)

Incorrect Information

It is a kingdom seperate from plants, animals, and PROTISTS. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.196.251.134 (talk) 19:00, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

It's a kingdom separate from plants, animals and bacteria, like the article says, and also separate from protists and archaea. It's more complicated than you think; see Kingdom (biology). I think the present wording of that paragraph is ok, giving an overview of where Fungi fit on the tree of life without getting bogged down in detail or stating anything inaccurate. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 04:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I second Adrian's comment. Also, if you go to the Protista entry you'll notice that there is some taxonomic uncertainty re the placement of protists in a separate kingdom. They are not as easily delineated as the Plant and Animal kingdoms. Malljaja (talk) 14:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Nutritional value?

I think some more info would be nice. 85.77.213.2 (talk) 04:25, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

In my opinion, the Mushroom and Edible mushroom entries may be more appropriate places for such info. There's some there already, but not too much, perhaps because the nutritional value of dietary mushrooms is not very remarkable (not counting medicinal properties, which are relevant to nutraceuticals). Malljaja (talk) 15:20, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I think there's a case for including info here, as the relevance of fungi to human nutrition goes far beyond mushrooms. Think of quorn, vegemite (which is mostly yeast extract), tempeh and other molded oriental foods, and molded cheeses, plus there are plans for making so-called single cell protein from fungi or other microbes grown on agricultural wastes. The essential amino acid content of fungi is of special interest to vegetarians. Wikipedia seems to have a gap on this topic – I'll try to find something over the weekend. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 06:35, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Physiology and Nutrition

Icecooldesign (talk) 10:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I think this should be added, as it is one of the most important aspects of fungi (namely extra-cellular digestion):

Fungi are saprotrophic, meaning that by extra-cellular digestion they digest their food. This occurs by both exocytosis, and then endocytosis, in which vesicles are secreted onto the matter, digested, and then absorbed endocytotically. Hence, they are vitally important in such processes as the nitrogen and carbon cycles in which they help to digest products very quickly, and making them available for plants to take up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Icecooldesign (talk • contribs) 10:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Some of what you're proposing is already covered in the entry (such as extracellular digestion by hydrolytic enzymes). I'm not aware that fungi take up nutrients via endocytosis, since they have a cell wall. It seems that mainly small molecules, ie. monomeric sugars and amino acids, are taken up after extracellular breakdown. But perhaps the direct and indirect roles in plant nutrition could be slightly expanded. Thanks! Malljaja (talk) 15:27, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Rozellida

Someone might like to comment in the article on the Rozellida hypothesis (found while looking for new stuff on Nucleariida) - that is that Rozella and related uncultured species (probably also parasitic) are the sister group to (the rest of) Fungi. I'm not sure how robust (apart from the uncertain position of Microsporidia) the hypothesis is. Lavateraguy (talk) 01:37, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

Morphology, Microscopic structure picture

The picture in the Morphology, Microscopic structure section depicts Hyaloperonospora parasitica. This organism is an oomycete (Chromist)and not a Fungus. This picture is thus inapropriate for this article. DetourJan (talk) 20:55, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

An environmental isolate of Penicillium
1. hypha
2. conidiophore
3. phialide
4. conidia
5. septa

So it is ([2]), thank you. What does everyone think of replacing it with the image on the right? One issue I can see is that the terms conidiophore and phialide are not presently mentioned in the article. I'm not sure how detailed alt text ought to be for an image like this. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 06:00, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

To make detail such as the beads-on-a-string structure of the conidiophores easier to see, it should probably be cropped on both sides, and perhaps the top third could be cropped and the image made wider than standard thumb size. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 06:11, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

The suggested new picture looks ok to me and would be a good replacement—the numerals along with the various fungal structures make it look a wee bit cluttered, so some cropping might indeed help with that. The H parasitica figure should probably be replaced asap, thanks for catching that DetourJan. One of those things that text book editors could get bad rashes about, but luckily this is WP ;-). Malljaja (talk) 16:17, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Malljaja. I've replaced the image with a cropped version of the image on the right, 50% larger than the default image size so the structure of the conidiophores can (just) be seen. Adrian J. Hunter^{(talk•contribs)} 06:54, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Time of earliest fungi

Fossils of the alga Grypania have been reported in 1,850 million-year-old rocks (originally dated to 2,100 million years ago but later revised(Fedonkin, M. A. (2003). "The origin of the Metazoa in the light of the Proterozoic fossil record" (PDF). Paleontological Research. 7 (1): 9–41. doi:10.2517/prpsj.7.9. Retrieved 2008-09-02. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)). A diverse collection of fossil algae were found in rocks dated between 1,500 million years ago and 1,400 million years ago.(Javaux, E. J., Knoll, A. H. and Walter, M. R. (2004). "TEM evidence for eukaryotic diversity in mid-Proterozoic oceans". Geobiology. 2 (3): 121–132. doi:10.1111/j.1472-4677.2004.00027.x. Retrieved 2008-09-02. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)) The earliest known fossils of fungi date from 1,430 million years ago.(Butterfield, N. J. (2005). "Probable Proterozoic fungi". Paleobiology. 31 (1): 165–182. doi:10.1666/0094-8373(2005)031<0165:PPF>2.0.CO;2. Retrieved 2008-09-02.) The proto-fungi must have been before 1,850 million years ago, as fungi are opisthokonta within unikonta, while plants are bikonta, in a very different branch of the eukaryote tree. --Philcha (talk) 21:33, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

fungi and orchids.

Many orchids have tiny seeds which embody no food supply of their own. These seeds lie around until invaded by the hyphae of a fungi, then they take over the fungus as their food supply. [Some orchids (Gastrodia ) have taken this to the extreme of relying on the fungi for all their food.] This parasitic activity helps explain the apparent association of some orchids with a particular type of plant community. The association is really that of the fungi with a specific plant community, and the orchid in turn with the fungi. Suma rongi (talk) 06:56, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

fungi and orchids.

Many orchids have tiny seeds which embody no food supply of their own. These seeds lie around until invaded by the hyphae of a fungi, then they take over the fungus as their food supply. [Some orchids (Gastrodia ) have taken this to the extreme of relying on the fungi for all their food.] This parasitic activity helps explain the apparent association of some orchids with a particular type of plant community. The association is really that of the fungi with a specific plant community, and the orchid in turn with the fungi. Suma rongi (talk) 06:57, 25 March 2011 (UTC)