Talk:James Dean

Porn Star Influence

There is a porn star who goes by James Deen. His hair looks similar to that of the late actor. [1]

Quality issue

What a dreadfully written article, at times incoherent. Worse, what's with the mention of "premonitions" and "curses"? Never mind the inaccuracies and tabloid gunk.

Photo for the main page

Why doesn't Jimmy's page have a photo of him, on the top right? Other famous people's pages do. Can someone upload a nice one on there?

Another Janes Dean movie

Recently, my son and I went to a used movie/bookstore and found and unheard of movie that had James Dean in it. It is called "Hill Number One." It is a movie about the cruxifiction of Jesus Christ. He plays a small role in the movie, but it is well worth mentioning. Can anyone add it in for me? Thank you.

Current version of Dean entry

Hi Flyer22

Thanks for letting me know the reason why you reverted the changes I tried to make to the Dean article on Wikipedia. I hadn't looked at the article in a long time, and I was concerned to see what a gossipy mess it appears to have become over the past months. Everyone seems to have added their two cents worth. Even though references are given, some of them are to books which frankly are simply gossip mongering tomes written for fans rather than serious works.

I was particularly disturbed by the fact that Dean's, shall we say more well established and documented relationships, had become mixed up with the section concerning speculations about his sexual orientation, which I would agree should come secondary to the bare facts of his life.

Dean, unfortunately, like all icons, has become public property, which means everyone has a claim on his or her version of what he was "really" all about. However, I think, quite obviously, in a biographical article, one shoud stick to sources who are actually known to have known and been a part of the life of the subject, rather ideas spun by third parties, amongst whom I would definitely include gossip columnists.

The Wikepedia article as it now stands is an inaccurate and amateurish hodgepodge. If I can't clear it up, maybe you, or some moderator, could do Dean the service?

Sincerely,

KitMarlowe3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by KitMarlowe3 (talk • contribs) 21:53, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

As I stated on my talk page: The speculation about his sexual orientation has been in the article for a long time now. I think since the last time you edited the article, months or a year ago. Its talk page is full of complaints about it (look above). What changed was how it was originally a part of his Personal relationships section, as though it is all truth. Everything said about Dean's sexual orientation is someone else's word but not his own, which makes it all claims and speculation. I didn't think it was fair to present these people's words/theories as fact, and so I divided the information, leaving the Personal relationships section to deal with his known relationships...and the Speculated sexual orientation section, which has had something to do with his popularity in the LGBT community, to deal with the claims/speculation. This can be seen above at #Category:Bisexual actors?. Are you saying you feel that most of what is stated about his sexual orientation should be removed? If so, what would you recommend fill that section? What sources?

Also, would you keep this discussion in one place? I don't want to respond at my talk page and here. Flyer22 (talk) 16:06, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Hi Flyer 22. Actually, the way the article reads now works for me. This much we know: Dean claimed to be homosexual in order to avoid the draft. He had a sexualized relationship with Rogers Brackett, and a long friendship (not "lovers") with William Bast that was marginally sexualized. Jonathan Gilmore also claimed he had a marginally sexualized friendship with Dean. However, Dean also had a collection of different girls that he hung out with, some of whom have identified themselves as having had a sexual relationship, including Liz Sheridan, who has stated that their relationship was sexualized. And finally there is the statement that David Dalton attributed to Dean in his biography, that when asked about his sexuality, Dean replied that he wasn't homosexual, but also that he wasn't going to go through life with one hand tied behind his back. Rather than referring to the fighting boast (beating someone with one hand tied behind your back), I think this is more likely to refer the practice of tying a lefthander's left hand behind his back in order to make him write with his right hand. This is about all we can really say. Maybe "apparently bisexual" would be the best term one can use for Dean. KitMarlowe3 (talk) 20:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Still, with the exception of what Dean reportedly told David Dalton about his sexuality, everything else stated about Dean being bisexual or gay are claims or speculation. I would like to think we can trust Bast's claims, but they are still claims. You say "this is what we know," but I'm saying "we really don't know."

I'm confused about what you want done with this article now. You started out saying, "Dean, unfortunately, like all icons, has become public property, which means everyone has a claim on his or her version of what he was 'really' all about." Which is exactly what I complained about earlier. But now you are saying, "Actually, the way the article reads now works for [you]." Flyer22 (talk) 01:12, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

No, you're quite right Flyer22 - we don't really know what Dean was. Some of his friends say one thing, others say another. However, if we apply your rule, quite a lot of celebrities and famous folk cannot be said to be said to be definitively heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual; very few have actually gone on record. But Alexander the Great and Julius Caesar and Hadrian, for instance, were widely recognized by their contemporaries as bisexual, and this much is stated in the history books.KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:49, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

"Early Life" addition

On 25 March 2011, User Ryanlively added: "After Giant co-star Elizabeth Taylor's death, in an off the record statement in interview she gave in 1997, Taylor revealed that Dean was sexually abused by a minister after his mother's death, at age 11."

After her death, Liz made an off-the-record statement? Dean's mother died at age 11? Color me skeptical. The News Hound 21:22, 25 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by The News Hound (talk • contribs)

The source looks like a blog to me, and I was similarly surprised to see this get into the article. Doc talk 23:18, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

It's one of those reliable sources blogs, per Wikipedia:Verifiability#Newspaper and magazine blogs. It's best to always check and see if a news source has a Wikipedia article here, to better grasp its notability and to see what it is about, and The Daily Beast has one. As for being surprised to see junk or vandalism get into an article that is "Accept revision" locked, don't be. Too many editors apparently just push "Accept revision" without looking or without looking carefully. Flyer22 (talk) 14:18, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

I tweaked the statement to this:[2][3][4]

I leave the rest up to others to tweak or remove. Flyer22 (talk) 14:38, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

On the outher hand, Taylor's statement does seem to corroborate Joe Hyams statement (in "James Dean: Little Boy Lost", Hyams, New York, Warner Books, 1992, pp 18-21) that when he interviewed James DeWeerd (the minister) a year after Dean's death, DeWeerd acknowledged his intimacy with Dean, but quotes him as saying "Jimmy never mentioned our relationship nor did I. It would not have helped either of us." KitMarlowe3 (talk) 20:02, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

I have taken the liberty of juxtaposing the Taylor information with the DeWeerd material.KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:32, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

I dunno. Maybe the whole molestation issue should be placed in the "speculated sexual orientation" section, perhaps after "...ambivalent sexuality"? Any thoughts anyone?KitMarlowe3 (talk) 23:39, 29 March 2011 (UTC)

posthumous

"remains the only actor to have had two posthumous acting nominations." I believe that Heath Ledger had MORE than two posthumous awards.