Talk:Female body shape

This article was nominated for deletion on 11 May 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Female Body Shape vs Male Body Shape

There is no corresponding article on 'Male body shape' so why do we have an article on Female Body Shape? Should either have both or neither. I also contest the usefulness of this article, as it is all over the place. veracity-or-mendacity (talk) 01:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Agree. Propose Merge with Human Body Shape article. JohnWycliff (talk) 23:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

I disagree. As much as I find the bodyshape obsession disagreeable, there is much material in both pop journalism and academia dealing with female body shape, body shape obsession, and societal implications of it. It's not Wikipedia's job to police things to our liking or our idea of fairness. BoosterBronze (talk) 21:48, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

If you feel that an article is required on Male Body Shape then feel free to make one.

Mistake in BWH Measurement section

I've noticed a mistake in the BWH measurement section. The article states that someone who measures 36A-25-38 and someone who measures 36C-25-38 both have 36" busts. This is incorrect. Someone who measures 36A has a 37" inch bust and someone who measures 36C has a 39" bust. I really can't figure out how to reword the section, though.

Fixed. 36A, 34C, both 37" bust. --AliceJMarkham (talk) 02:38, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Also, the "36" in a 36A bra indicates a 32-inch approximate rib cage measurement. When measuring for a bra, you add 4" to the actual measurement (defaulting to the tighter band if you are in-between), and, every inch above the calculated number increases the cup size, so, a 36A would have a rib cage of about 32" with a bust measurement of 37". But, I'm having trouble wording it straightforwardly rather than a correction to the misinformation. A straightforward statement with the misinformation removed would be better, I think. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.37.123 (talk) 19:09, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Inflection points

I dispute this term. The page itself links to the mathematical concept of an inflection point, at which the curvature is changing its sign. The BWH are merely the local extrema of the shape. There are only two inflection points per-se, and they are basically between these three points, but the actual placement is quite irrelevant. -- Jokes Free4Me (talk) 18:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

I've never particularly liked the term "inflection point" in this article but hadn't found a suitable alternative. I agree with your suggestion that local extrema is probably a correct term, even though I don't really like that term per se. I'd probably be inclined to describe them as [local extrema|key measurements] or similar. --AliceJMarkham (talk) 23:25, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Sexism anyone?

This article reeks of it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.141.160 (talk) 06:01, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Acknowledgment of variability in the figures of human females is not inherently sexist; unless you feel that the article has specific NPOV issues that need to be addressed, your comment is entirely worthless. 64.211.50.218 (talk) 20:16, 27 May 2009 (UTC)Tiktok

Masculine Female Shapes

In the "Female Shapes" section, both "Apple" and "Banana" shapes are described as "More Masculine." Later, a study shows that 46% of women are banana and 14% are apple. If 60% of women are "more masculine" perhaps that isn't the right term. Even if that were not the case, I think that terminology seems to imply that the other two body types are better/more attractive, which I don't think we want to do. Kjsharke (talk) 01:38, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Higher estrogen leads to a more hourglass- or pear-shaped figure. Higher testosterone leads to accumulation of body fat in the abdomen and less pronouncement of hips (apple and banana shapes). Hence, yes, those are more masculine. It's also why hourglass shapes are indeed considered more attractive in real life. Men seek high-estrogen women because it signifies (instinctually, of course) higher fertility. I keep telling everyone that Wikipedia is not a place for sugarcoated PC demagoguery, but no one listens, LOL... Succubus MacAstaroth (talk) 21:19, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

If your terminology is taken at face value as correct, then one can only conclude that the terms masculine and feminine are themselves flawed; as the majority of women have a "masculine" shape. Perhaps this needs addressing on the pages for those terms? ... I went to those pages. Ineed, the definition of both is not considered scientific: "Cultural standards vary a great deal on what is considered feminine." So you are both correct. Yes, those shapes may be considered more masculine and yes there's a problem with using a societal norm to solely define women's body shapes. 76.182.83.46 (talk) 07:23, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Photo removal

I've restored the photo, which was removed with the comment 'nudity unnecessary'. I think past precedent and in particular this recent conversation are a pretty clear consensus for its retention. Olaf Davis (talk) 15:39, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks like you guys are still reverting each other back & forth : [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] Although I think the Image in question does little for the Article, labeling it "pornographic and unattractive" or "nudity unnecessary!" are not valid arguments to remove it. See WP:NOTCENSORED & Wikipedia:Options to not see an image -- GateKeeper^(X) @ 00:15, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Concerned about picture on Female body shape

This section was copied here from Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests by GateKeeperX. Olaf Davis (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Answered

 – Jezhotwells (talk) 18:30, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I am concerned that the image used on the article Female body shape constitutes pornography. My teenage children have browsed this website as an educational tool and I do not wish them to encounter such images. The image in question can be found around halfway down the page, captioned "Real woman demonstrating the hourglass body shape". Thank you for your time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Concernedfather (talk • contribs) 21:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia is not censored. Crafty (talk) 21:40, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, but I don't see why it must be a naked women. This seems to me as though it is peddling pornography for no reason. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Concernedfather (talk • contribs) 21:54, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

It's pretty obvious that a picture of a clothed woman will not demonstrate body shape as clearly as a naked one. That's why every woman pictured in that article (not just the one you are for some reason focusing on) is naked. Algebraist 22:00, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

(ec) I would suggest that the shape of the female body is most accurately illustrated by showing a woman without her clothes. I would respectfully submit that removing that image because you (concernedfather) or anyone else objects on the moral grounds would be contrary to Wikipedia policy. Discussion should focus on why the image is not suited to that particular article. You (concernedfather) might wish to pursue this matter on the article talk page. Crafty (talk) 22:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

• I would suggest you install some kind of content filter. See also WP:Options to not see an image. –xeno^talk 22:06, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

• According to the article on pornography, the images on the Female body shape page do not constitute pornography, because they are not a "...depiction of explicit sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexually exciting the viewer." The article on nude photography also distinguishes nudity from erotic nudity:

Nude photography is a style of art photography which depicts the nude human body as a study. Nude photography should be distinguished from erotic photography, which has a sexually suggestive component.

It is only by means of a preconception that "nude is lewd" that the images on the page can be seen as pornographic. The images on the page illustrate the female form in a sensual, not sexual, way. We somehow manage when we see our naked pets in greater detail around the house and we understand their excretory needs. These images, showing less than the family dog does, show us more about ourselves. The images are educational; they are not pornography catering to a prurient interest. Newportm (talk) 00:00, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

If you don't want your children to encounter pictures of naked women then keep them locked in dungeon for the rest of their lives! Jezhotwells (talk) 10:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

The explanations here are a little disingenuous; the reason there's an article on female body shape and none on male body shape; the reason there's a photograph of a nude woman but none of a nude man on human body shape, and the reason WIkipedia's editors chose the particular photo under discussion are all the same, and is an open secret: we're on the Internet, and a lot of hormonally activated teenage boys who might not get to see real nude women edit here. They edit what interests them, and that's nude girls. The fact is, that the photo is certainly not pornographic, but it certainly is there at least partially for titillation, even if some care to think otherwise. But the photo won't be removed: the community here likes these pictures. Viewing the photo won't have much of an effect on your children, though I understand wanting to protect them from her sagginess. - Nunh-huh 11:25, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

• Comment : Generally the goal of scholarly or scientific work is to show reality as explicitly, starkly, and clearly as possible in order for everyone to understand and benefit. I've personally never understood the need for various types of concealment but if education is the goal, explicit is the most direct route. Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 22:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

• Your concern about your children viewing images of nude woman seems based on the assumption that this would cause some harm to them, however no scientific studies have shown that viewing images (sexually explicit or otherwise) causes "harm." If you're concerned, as I suspect, that it would cause your children to ask you uncomfortable questions, perhaps you should look inside yourself to see why this is so rather than attempt to publicly resolve a personal issue. Lexlex (talk) 23:20, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

• The OP said something about educational purposes and gave no indication of specific issues beyond the uninformative label "pornography" and Ed Meese isn't returning my e-mails. While historically many taboos have existed around sex, body fluids, or corpse dissection, educational purpose AFAIK is synonymuous with explicit and clear. Presumably this goal is primary before any possible hazards- corpses and body fluilds are not always safe but I'm not sure what hazards exist with information. Generally it is best to be explicit about your fears and not assume we are mind readers. In short, what are you worried about and what limits do you wish to place on education and learning ? Nerdseeksblonde (talk) 00:06, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Quality of nude photo

I do not object to the idea of a nude photo demonstrating an hourglass shape but I think the particular photo on display should be replaced. The fact that the model's legs are crossed drastically obscures her shape. Moreover, were her legs uncrossed, I think we would find that she does not have an especially hourglass-like hip-to-waist ratio. PetiteFadette (talk) 07:06, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Pictures - is there a decent one available with body hair?

I notice that all the pictures illustrating this article are of women with a weird absence of body hair. I know this has been conventional in some painting traditions, but this article isn't just about those traditions. I think this article would be more useful if at least one of the pictures featured a woman with something approaching normal levels of body hair. But looking at the article, I see the pictures (other than the abstracted diagrams) have been (tastefully) selected so that they are all classical paintings. Does such a classical painting exist that shows some body hair, since I don't want to disrupt the article? 86.164.66.4 (talk) 22:43, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Redirects to Female body shape article

There are a number of redirects to this article. Per the Principle of least astonishment (WP:REDIRECT#PLA) these terms should be mentioned at the beginning of the article and they are not. I think many of these should be changed and would like to get everybodies input on this before changing them. Here's my suggestions

• Amazonian build → don't know, leave it for now, maybe delete it later.
• Buxom → soft redirect to Wiktionary using Template:Wi
• Curvy → soft redirect to Wiktionary using Template:Wi
• Volupshious → redirect to Big Beautiful Woman as it describes voluptuous
• Voluptous → redirect to Big Beautiful Woman as it describes voluptuous
• Voluptuous → redirect to Big Beautiful Woman as it describes voluptuous
• Voluptuousness → redirect to Big Beautiful Woman as it describes voluptuous

Does anybody have any input before I update these redirects? - Hydroxonium (talk | contribs) 07:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Seeing no objections, I have changed the redirects to those listed above. Anybody is free to change them back if they feel the need. Please keep in mind the Principle of least astonishment from WP:REDIRECT#PLA. Thanks - Hydroxonium (talk | contribs) 13:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Link to eating disorder pages

I think that since this page talks a lot about 'ideal' body image, and because there is already so much pressure on women and girls from the media to have that ideal body even if very few people /do/ have it, there should be links to the Anorexia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anorexia_nervosa) and the Bulimia page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulimia_nervosa).

Srjohnst (talk) 15:14, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion to change name of article

I think that the article should be rename "Female figure", which is probably a more commonly used term. Ewawer (talk) 07:54, 22 March 2011 (UTC)