Talk:List of spacecraft called Sputnik

Fiftieth anniversary coming up

Is it possible to bring this article up to "Featured Article" quality by Oct 4, 2007, the 50th anniversary of Sputnik I and the start of the Space Age? TechBear 21:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

This 50th anniversary Newsweek article claims that the U.S. was shocked by the launch is a myth[1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.114.117.103 (talk) 20:12, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

The Newsweek article is junk, just something one of their staff writers whipped up. Sadly, this article is not very high quality. I would suggest "featuring" the Sputnik-1 article, which is somewhat better but still not very good. DonPMitchell 19:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

Pic of the Sputnik Arming Key

It's in the Air and Space Museum? How did America get their mitts on the last surviving piece of Sputnik? That's a story that would be handy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pittsburghmuggle (talk • contribs) 16:34, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Nonsense vs. Notability

Most of this article is nonsense. There was no central "Sputnik programme". After the first two or three satellites, the designations were made up by Western organisations to allow for the identification of unrelated satellites whose names the Soviet Union had not disclosed. The word "sputnik" appeared in a number of other Soviet programmes, but these were unrelated and were due to the fact that the word "sputnik" is Russian for "satellite". This article should be cut back, and possibly moved to Prosteyshiy Sputnik, which was the name of the programme for the first two satellites. --GW… 11:06, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

• I agree. Sputnik-1 was a satellite ans Sputnik-2 was a spacecraft carrying a dog! Anyway, the Soviets only designated the development of Sputnik-1 as Sputnik Project or Sputnik Pogramme. Sputnik-1 is actually "Prosteishy sputnik" meaning "simplest satellite" in Russian. The actual Sputnik program or project refered to the development of Prosteishy sputnik and Sputnik-2 was a different and a follow-on programme of the Sputnik Pogramme. More info from Anatoly Zak's website -- [2] --Johnxxx9 (talk) 20:05, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

• • From what I gather, the official designation for Sputnik 2 was "Prosteyshiy Sputnik 2" --GW… 21:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

• • • Prosteishy means 'simplest' or 'simple' in Russian. It was used to designate Sputnik-1 as the design of the satellite was supposed to be as basic as possible. Sputnik-2 was not designated as Prosteyshiy Sputnik 2. Anyhow, the conclusion is that Sputnik-1 and Sputnik-2 aren't part of the same project so this article is baseless. --Johnxxx9 (talk) 14:35, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
    • There are quite a few references available for Sputnik 2 being PS-2, if you look. --GW… 18:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

The original satellite design for launch during the IGY was Object D. It was complex, heavy, with extensive experiments and telemetry. it was WAY behind schedule when an opportunity arose due to delays in the development of the re-entry vehicle for Sapwood there were missiles being produced which essentially had no immediate test program mission following the successful launch of 8L71 number Mi-8 in August. Korolev begged the commission controlling the development of the 8K71 to let him to modify to launch a 'simple satellite.' The results in little more than a month was the 8K71 PS and the orbiting of PS-1. A successful re-entry vehicle was not tested until spring of 1958.Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

• Have no idea on this topic, but do know there are other articles about spacecraft named Sputnik that surely belong somewhere. If Sputnik 10, Sputnik 9, Sputnik 8, Sputnik 7, Sputnik 6, Sputnik 5, Sputnik 4 and Sputnik 3 are notable (and they are if they retain existence here on Wikipedia), they belong somewhere. If not here, then under the proper program name (ie: Vostok programme or whatnot). Again, I don't understand the interrelationships/programs but from my outsider's viewpoint the Sputnik program did indeed exist. If not, someone who understands needs to find homes for Sputnik 10 through Sputnik 3 or flag those as non-notable (if they are, indeed, which I am not suggesting, since I have no idea.) - Ageekgal (talk) 20:35, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
  • From what I can tell:

"Sputnik" number	Correct name	Remarks
Sputnik 1	Prosteyshiy Sputnik 1
Sputnik 1	Prosteyshiy Sputnik 2
Sputnik 3	ISZ D-1 #2
Sputnik 4	Korabl Sputnik 1
Sputnik 5	Korabl Sputnik 2
Sputnik 6	Korabl Sputnik 3
Sputnik 7	Venera 1VA #1
Sputnik 8	Venera 1
Sputnik 9	Korabl Sputnik 4
Sputnik 10	Korabl Sputnik 5
Sputnik 11	Kosmos 1	Has also been applied to Vostok 1
Sputnik 12	Kosmos 2	Has also been applied to Vostok 2
Sputnik 13	Kosmos 3
Sputnik 14	Kosmos 4
Sputnik 15	Kosmos 5
Sputnik 16	Kosmos 6
Sputnik 17	Kosmos 7
Sputnik 18	Kosmos 8
Sputnik 19	Venera 2MV-1 #1
Sputnik 20	Venera 2MV-1 #2
Sputnik 21	Venera 2MV-1 #2
Sputnik 22	Mars 2MV-4 #1
Sputnik 23	Mars 1
Sputnik 24	Mars 2MV-3 #1
Sputnik 25	Luna E-6 #2

• • I don't know how best to name the articles where the name includes the "#" symbol, since technical restrictions prevent its use in titles. I would suggest either removing it (as I have done above), or replacing it with "no.". Sputniks 11 and 12 are disambiguation pages for correctly named articles, whilst 13-18 and 23 are redirects to the correct names. I feel that 8 should be merged, and the rest moved to the correct locations, with the exceptions of Sputnik 1 and Sputnik 2, which are widely known by their shorter names. --GW… 10:08, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

You must understand just how propaganda and secrecy driven the Soviet Union space and missile programs were. The term 'Sputnik' was used for cover over the Zenit spy satellites, the Vostok manned space program, and various other military programs.

The USA used the term 'Discoverer' as a cover to hide the Corona and other spy satellite programs.

The list given shows this clearly. There WAS NO SPUTNIK PROGRAM. There was just a term which was useful for propaganda and to obfuscate.Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:07, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I should also add that sometimes Soviet satellites lunar, and planetary probes were simply referred to as 'sputnik (insert next number in sequence) by some western "authorities" when the Soviets openly called them by other names. As the 'real' names and purposes of all space probes of the times have now been revealed by both sides this kind of controversy needs to be resolved by dissolving the the fictions. This can be difficult because common usage has often become 'fact' while the real 'fact' has become lost except to the serious student. For example many 'histories' list the rocket that launched Explorer I as a 'Jupiter-C' when it was a similar Juno-I. The Jupiter missile was nothing like the Jupiter-C, but when it was equipped with the upper stages of a Juno-I, it was deemed a Juno-II.

That this article is termed "Sputnik Program" is laughable, but it is what it is named. The best we can do is try to shape it into what it actually seems to address. The first man-made earth satellites launched by the Soviet Union pursuant to the goal of orbiting a satellite during the IGY. Satellites which had a profound effect upon the world all out of proportion to their actual accomplishments.Mark Lincoln (talk)

You're preaching to the choir. I can find no evidence that the Soviets used the name Sputnik beyond Sputnik 3. There were some later spacecraft whose name contained the word Sputnik (eg. Korabl' Sputnik), since the word Sputnik became established in Russian as meaning satellite or spacecraft. If you look at the NSSDC entry for "Sputnik 22", it actually states that the Sputnik designations were assigned by the United States Naval Space Command, rather than the Soviet Union. --GW… 06:39, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I have several books from the time listing the booster as the "T-3." NATO soon gave it the name Sapwood, and designation SS-6. OKB-1 used the sequential R-7, but soon called it Semyorka "old number seven." The GURVO (Main Missile Directorate) used the industrial designation 8K71 (or 8K71PS for the satellite launcher). Later developments were the R-7A, the actual ICBM, which was produced in two versions the 8K74 and 8K710, both of which were also Semyorka!

We had our own confusing system of designations. As with the Soviet's it was largely a matter of bureaucracy and public relations, but lacked the Soviet security fetish. The Army Ballistic Missile Agency had a program called Hermes. One sub-project, Hermes C-1 was developed into a tactical missile designated XSM-G-14, later XSM-A-14, then by it's popular name 'Redstone." Eventually it ended up designated PGM-11 in the great nomenclature revolution under Sec. of D. McNamara. Redstone was modified into Jupiter-C to test sub-scale re-entry vehicles for the "Jupiter" (aka B-76 (after operational use was transfered to the USAF), SM-76, later SM-78, and finally PGM-19 and PGM-19A. 'The times they were a changing'! One had to be an avid worshiper of von Braun's Tomorrow Land shows or have a score card to keep up with the changes.Mark Lincoln (talk) 14:20, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Henry_Ford

Why is he here?

• muttnik
• Kudryavka
• sputnik
• Henry_Ford
• communist_satellite
• wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Wiki_editor_DonFphrnqTaub_Persina
• {{clarify }}
• < http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=_sputnik_&diff=331511275&oldid=331107334 >.

hopiakuta Please do sign your communiqué .~~Thank You, DonFphrnqTaub Persina. 23:10, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

Hi Hopiakuta, the "Henry Ford" was just a vandalism introduced in this edit. I have reverted it. In future, if you see obvious vandalism such as this you can just revert it yourself. -- Ekjon Lok (talk) 04:58, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of the word "sputnik"

Surely the translation "companion" is a bit naive - I would suggest that the better translation would be the more political "fellow traveller" Maelli (talk) 10:26, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. The public name was a political statement. The OKB-1 name was "PS-1" for "Simple Satellite 1."Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:43, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

It seems that the article engages in a degree of political correctness in attempting to use strict dictionary meanings at the expense of a colloquial meaning which any Soviet Citizen mid-20th century would have inferred given the context of use. As an avid fan of the old TV series "I Led Three Lives" in the 1950s I am aware of the political use of the term 'Fellow Traveller". As a person who has known a few old members of the CPUSA I can say that I have heard them use the term "Fellow Traveller" for someone who was not a party member, but travelled in the same circle concerning political and social issues. I think it would be neither pandering to the right, or misinterpreting the word given usage, to describe Sputnik as a "Felllow Traveller of Earth."Mark Lincoln (talk) 23:14, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

The Problems Mentioned

Clearly this article is not well documented. i guess some one has to take their books down from the shelves and get to it. I am not a masochist, but I guess that person is myself.

Feedback from others would be appreciated as I try to shape up this article.Mark Lincoln (talk) 17:35, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

I hope this work satisfies those who questioned the need for more inline citations and references.Mark Lincoln (talk) 21:51, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Mark Lincoln you have done a wonderful job adding resources I am removing the flag. Sgerbic (talk) 04:13, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

One problem I see with the article is the spurious reference to 'sputnik 40 and 41." The other is the degree of influence upon people at the times given in the "impact" section. One quaint relic in my library is is a book "Spacepower what it means to you." Published in 1958 is is typically void of fact and speculative as were most publications for the public at the time. It has a chapter "Sputnik's Impact on the free world." It is essentially 'source' material for that subject being written less than a year after the event. It lists 7 separate subjects and discusses the "Impact of Sputnik" upon leadership, strategy and tactics, missile production, applied research, basic science research, education, and democratic culture.

This could be used to slightly elaborate the 'impact' section. If there is a problem with length it might be prudent to slightly abbreviate the list of US Satellites mentioned as reducing anxiety. (Mom was far more impressed by SCORE than I, though I was and am a big fan of Ike).

Input please folks, I don't want to make any changes that will provoke a flame war.Mark Lincoln (talk) 13:36, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I have got rid of the section on Sputnik 40 and 41. I think we should leave a brief mention of them under "Impact". --GW… 16:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

A Basic Problem With This Article

There never was a 'Sputnik Program." The cultural event and device commonly called 'Sputnik" was not the product of any coherent program.

Sputnik was a term used by the Soviet Government as a name for it's first and some subsequent satellites.

The section on 'Sputnik 40 and 41" involves devices with absolutely NO connection to the Sputniks of 1957-58 aside from an attempt to grasp at some faded glory.

I recommend the article be pruned of utterly unrelated material and be renamed for the object, both technical and cultural that is evoked by the name 'Sputnik."Mark Lincoln (talk) 21:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

Naming

Might this article be better named and described by something like "Sputnik - Soviet IGY Satellites and Their Consequences"? Wow, is that awkward! At least it has a smidgeon of truth whilst the idea there was a "Sputnik Program" is without any historic support.

This article is a conflation of technical facts about a few early satellites, the political circumstances and consequences as well as the social and historic effects of those satellites.

To anyone who lived at the time the conflation is most rational.

To historians of the technology or times the conflation is necessary for context.

For Korolev the IGY was an excuse to pursue space flight. For the USA it was an excuse to establish the legal right of free transit above the sensible atmosphere. For both it could be justified on grounds of scientific research.

That both Korolev and von Braun were eager to develop military hardware that could be used to fulfill their dreams is ironic. That the United States decided to build a (theoretically) all "civilian" launch vehicle to establish a legal precedent while avoiding any interference or delay of ongoing military missile programs is also ironic.

That Korolev developed the most important space launch vehicle in history under the guise of the worst ICBM ever developed is another irony. That von Braun and the ABMA were launching space probes in a desperate attempt to survive Pentagon infighting over which service would deploy the long range guided missile gets drowned out in the still lingering resentments of who lost the claim of the "first Earth satellite" for the United States.

That the most efficient of the satellite launch vehicles used for IGY satellites was the 'despised' Vanguard is also an irony as it achieved exactly what it was intended to do.

The Juno is long gone, having passed while another Redstone variant, Redstone Mercury, went on to lob the first American into space a few weeks after a development of the R-7 put the first Soviet into orbit.

Vanguard lives on in a vastly mutated and developed form as unrecognizable and unrecognized as Delta.

Semyorka labors on in it's own greatly improved variant launching Soyuz and Progress missions. Today the old workhorse, the developed version of the 14A14, son of 11A511, son of 8K87, son of 8K71PS, "Old Number Seven," remains in harness, the only means either Russia or the United States have of reaching the International Space Station.

Meanwhile the passions, the shock, fear and pride which swept the world despite the initial modest responses of Dwight and Nikita have passed into history as they have.

What to do with the awkwardly named "Sputnik Program" article?

I have attempted to resolve the need for citations, and make a few additions and alterations that seemed necessary. I think that doing any radical surgery without input would be not only rash, but perhaps feckless.

Input pleaseMark Lincoln (talk) 00:27, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

• My preference would be to move to either Prosteyshiy Sputnik (the name of the programme which led to the first two satellites), or Sputnik (over a redirect) if we intend to cover Object D as well. --GW… 06:45, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

There wasn't even a Prosteyshiy Sputink program. The two "PS" launches were ad hoc and utterly opportunistic. The delays in both the re-entry vehicle and the Object D scientific satellite created the chance which Korolev seized to launch the space age. p.s. one thing that caused both confusion and mirth in OKB-1 in the late summer of 1957 was the pun mixing the initials of Prosteyshiy Sputnik and Sergei Pavlovich. The initials in each case having only slightly different pronunciation.Mark Lincoln (talk) 13:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I feel that the word "Sputnik" fits both the first three Soviet satellites AND the political/diplomatic/social response.Mark Lincoln (talk) 13:21, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Sputnik suits me. --GW… 14:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

Sputnik program → Sputnik – Current title is misleading as it implies the subject was a clearly structured and defined programme, rather than a series of loosely related missions, as demonstrated in previous discussion. Sputnik, which currently redirects here, would be a more appropriate title since it is free of those implications. --GW… 14:19, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Sputnik was a name given the Soviet Government for the PS-1. PS-2 and Object D Earth Satellites. Thereafter it became a generic term applied to satellites of Soviet origin. Even when the Soviet Union gave other names to other satellites, planetary probes and solar orbital vehicles many in the west continued to give them the 'sputnik' name followed by a sequential number.

No one working on the PS-1, PS-2, or Object D satellites thought of them as part of a program as far as I have been able to find out.

"Sputnik" was a generic term, and became a term which describes not only the object, but the world's response to it's launch. I cannot recall anyone in 1957 talking of a 'Sputnik Program.' Indeed I cannot recall ever seeing the term until opening this article.Mark Lincoln (talk) 15:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps I'm missing something but if there was no such thing as a Sputnik Program in the first place then, regardless of the name we give it, why do we have an article on it in the first place? Couldn't the information in this article simply be merged into those of the specific satellites? ChiZeroOne (talk) 16:15, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

That's actually a good point. Quite a lot of this article duplicates information in Sputnik 1. I would be in favour of either a move, or getting rid of this article altogether. In the event of a merger I feel that Sputnik 1 should become the primary topic for the Sputnik redirect, not a disambiguation page. --GW… 16:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree Sputnik should redirect to (or even be title of) the Sputnik 1 article. Powers ^T 17:10, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I would be strongly opposed to moving Sputnik 1, its name is established, and there were other Sputniks (2 and 3), so it would make sense to preserve the consistency of numbering. --GW… 18:05, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I favor using the common name over maintaining consistency; most people mean the first one when they say "Sputnik". Powers ^T 18:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

I don't think that it is that much more common, and it would be both confusing and misleading since generally if a number is not present, then it is implied that there are no more highly numbered spacecraft of the same name. --GW… 20:09, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Oh, wow. I've only just realised from this conversation that Sputnik does not point to Sputnik 1! That is clearly unacceptable because at least 9 times out of 10 someone typing Sputnik will mean that one, the first satellite. I suspect the common name guideline would favour Sputnik as the primary for that rather than Sputnik 1 but personally i'm not that fussed, as long as one points to the other.

This article cannot be renamed Sputnik as to most people it means something else. I suggest this page is removed as it documents something that didn't actually exist, it feels a bit like historical revisionism by misrepresenting the situation. Anything worth salvaging should be moved to the appropriate pages. ChiZeroOne (talk) 21:41, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

For two generations in the world "Sputnik" meant more than just an object. It was an event. Perhaps the whole problem with the name is "Program." There was no 'program.' There was, however, and immensely influential event and resultant response. Most of the people in the world were not "Space Cadets" as people who were eager to see exploration of space were called in the 1950s. Space exploration was seen as 'science fiction' at best, insane at worst.

Suddenly the world woke to the advent of the "Space Age." The effects were global and for both the USA and USSR, formative. Sputnik reformed the Cold War and was the impetus for the 'Space Race" which landed man on the Moon.

Sputnik 1 was an object, device. "Sputnik" was far, far more and it took the USA 12 years to overcome the feelings of shock and fears of inferiority it induced.

The second word is the problem. Perhaps the article should be shaped and named towards the "Sputnik Revolution,' or "Sputnik Era"?70.241.19.66 (talk) 14:05, 17 August 2011 (UTC)