Talk:Heights of presidents and presidential candidates of the United States

Old discussion

No offense intended, but the information on this seems to be vastly incorrect. For one thing, I know for sure that John Quincy Adams was about 5'2. Can you show a source? Rhymeless 06:30, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

No offense taken as I am certainly not any kind of serious scholar, but a search on "shortest president" suggests that many believe Madison was the shortest at 5'4", so if you know something that is contrary to popular belief, please document it if only for my benefit.

It appears that you're entirely right. I could have sworn that I had a book that said otherwise, purchased as a souvenir at the white house when I went there (long gone now) but everywhere on the web seems refute this. Sorry to bother you. (quite embarrassed now) Rhymeless 06:56, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Quite all right; I'm in no position to judge. :)

There are lots of errors on this page. GWB is 6'0" and there's no way Kerry is taller than 6'3". Others are suspicious. Teddygoff 06:55, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

He seems to have been removed from the list completely. Many people would argue that it doesn't really matter but there is no objective way you can say he is 6'0". He wears lifts and boots an awful lot and is in around 5'10. --194.125.112.57 16:31, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, James Polk was no taller than 5'9", NOT the 6'12" listed (That's 7 feet for you in Rio Linda).

Further, Theodore Roosevelt was an even 5'10". Compare photos of him next to McKinley or Taft. At a minimum, refer to the listing for Theodore Roosevelt in The Peoples' Almanac by Wallachinsky and Medved from ca. 1976.

Many of the heights listed here are inaccurate.

John Kerry, is about 6 ft 4 ins. This article suggests he is 6 ft 6 and 3/4 inches tall (taller than Michael Jordan) which is blatantly false.

President George W Bush is not 5 ft 9 1/2 as this article says.G W is infact about 6 ft tall (His National Guard Records list him at 5'11).

Who ever updated the height index as of feb 4, 2006, thankyou for correcting them.

The list contradicted many of the heights found on the presidential height list page, and since that page seemed to jibe better with most other outside sources, I updated this page to match it, or at least the parts I noticed, anyway. -Alex68.110.114.40 05:50, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the 1912 section include Taft? At 6'0" he was taller than Wilson, so in 1912 the tallest candidate actually didn't win. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.86.46 (talk) 02:38, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

It's just between the two candidates with the most votes, so the taller candidate did win in 1912, since the next best result was Roosevelt's. Wcp07 (talk) 06:18, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Colors

Could we get some better colors, specifically some that have higher contrast? Also, remember that fully color-blind people can only see shades of grey (...or is it gray? I hate that word.), and that those colors are very similar in shade.

Would be thrilled to update, just don't know what colors I good. I dug around some color-checkers and ended up a great deal more baffled than when I started. Any ideas? jengod 02:04, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

McClellan

According to "McClellan's War: The Failure of Moderation in the Struggle for the Union" By Ethan Rafuse (review at http://www.historynet.com/acw/reviews/acwreview0306-1/), George B. McClellan stood "perhaps half a foot below 6 feet tall" ( probably the source of his nickname "Little Mac" ). Tentatively I'm listing his height therefore as 5'6; he certainly must have been much shorter than Lincoln.

Upcoming Election

Can we add a section for the upcoming election. I think Rudy Giuliani is about 5'9", Hillary Clinton about 5'7" and Barack Obama about 6'1", but these are just estimates. 86.139.60.204 23:23, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Pointless

Is this possibly the most pointless article on Wikipedia? 4kinnel 15:40, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Dunno, I kind of like it 12.177.23.62 (talk) 00:52, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

You did go through the trouble of finding it.--Loodog (talk) 01:18, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

look up "No u", i found this article by using the random function :3 --84.202.250.163 (talk) 10:31, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Clean up metric conversion

I know this might not be important for people in the non-metric World, but someone needs to clean up the metric conversion. 6ft 4 is not 2 meters by any means. Actually 6ft 6 is about 2 meters (and even that is a little less than 2 meters).

anyway, it's an interesting article nevertheless.

Bill Clinton's height

I would fix it myself, but I don't want to mess anything up, so I'll ask that someone more familiar with the tables take care of it. Clinton's height is 6'2.5" or 1.83m. Source Another source. faithless (^speak) 05:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

6'2.5" is in fact 1.89m. That means as well that Clinton was the taller of the candidates in the 92 election. Are there any other sources that verify Clinton's height? If he is 1.89m, then the 92 election in the table needs to be changed to a taller candidate win, which would confirm again the conclusion this article appears to be making on taller candidates.Wikischolar1983 (talk) 12:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

My mistake, 6'2.5" is 1.89m. But you need more sources? Surely the New York Times and Forbes are good enough? :) faithless (^speak) 19:09, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Though the Forbes article was only indicating that Bill Clinton was around 6'2". But never mind, a couple of the external sources at the end of this article also stated that he was 6'2.5", so I guess that's good enough:) I've put his new height in the table and updated the statistics on tall/short winners, which now reflect one more taller candidate win in presidential elections.Wikischolar1983 (talk) 06:58, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

McCain

is mccain really 5'6? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.137.204.166 (talk) 21:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he is. 24.23.48.119 (talk) 01:54, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed. 76.20.18.25 (talk) 22:57, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Confirmed, but probably inaccurate. The medical records may just be an estimate. Look at the pictures of McCain next to Nixon and Giuliani and he looks taller. He is more likely 5'7" to 5'8". Check out these pictures:

http://www.powerlineblog.com/Nixon_greets_POW_McCain.jpg

http://media.commercialappeal.com/mca/content/img/photos/2008/01/31/1gop.jpeg

Christidy (talk) 12:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

According to this McCain's height is 175.3 cm or about 5'9" (on p 7) . That would make sense of photos like this, where he's nearly level with the 180 cm Bush (this YouTube clip also shows him nearly level with Bush [at 0'38]). Celebheights believes reports that his height is 168 cm or 5'6" are suspect. Wcp07 (talk) 12:45, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Yes, medical records are the best source, even if we don't believe them, which I don't.--Loodog (talk) 17:24, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Article was sabotaged on 7/2/2008

Someone changed the words "tall" and "taller" to the words "short" and "shorter" and vice-versa in several places in the article, even changing all of the quotes. I realize that an article about the heights of the presidents and candidates is not of earth-shattering importance, but it's annoying that someone did this. Can a url be blocked? I believe I've reversed all of the changes, but the same person has done lots of editing in other articles. ReaderReader5 (talk) 02:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

2008 election update

The references for Obama's height should be retained as there's still no consensus on his exact height. Also the metric conversions for both him and John McCain need to be fixed. Wcp07 (talk) 07:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Vice-Presidents

Do we have any data for the heights of US Vice-Presidents? Wcp07 (talk) 12:23, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

William Jennings Bryan

This says that William Jennings Bryan's height was "about 5 feet 10 inches", not 6 feet as is currently listed. Do we have any other sources for Bryan's height? If not, I propose we change his height. That's going to affect the taller/shorter outcome for 1908 Wcp07 (talk) 04:37, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Wrong information

Normally, if there is wrong information, the editor removes or corrects it. However, there is an entire section that is wrong.

Taller man wins? section is wrong. Rather than eliminate it, consider modifying it. I don't want to OR (original research) so someone help me. In short, the section could read:

Multiple sources have proposed that the tallest candidate of the major political party will win the election (then quote many of the bullets as sources).

Note that John Kerry was taller than George Bush and Gerald Ford was taller than Jimmy Carter.

What probably is the case is the taller/handsome man wins. This is because Jimmy Carter, despite his bad teeth, looked better than dinosaur Ford but not as good as Reagan. Kerry looks a bit funny compared to Bush, even if you dislike Bush. However, this paragraph is OR so it can't get into Wikipedia, thank heavens!User F203 (talk) 22:06, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

GEORGE WASHINGTON

Washington was at least 6'3", according to every source except Ron Chernow. "George Washington was measured for his clothing at 74 inches in height, or 6'2". Though he complained that his clothes were too small. After his death, he was measured at 6'3" and 1/2 inches tall in his stocking feet. The average height of a man in the 18th century was around 5'7.5", so he was indeed a tall man. George Washington was also of an athletic, powerful build. Also known to have very large hands and feet, blue eyes and reddish brown hair.

Ron Chernow, in his new book Washington: A life, claims Washington be be 6' even. He bases this assumption on orders Washington placed in which he asks for clothing for a man of 6 feet high. However, Washington never seemed satisfied with his clothing and constantly complained that the legs are too short. In addition, we know Thomas Jefferson to be 6' 2 and 1/2" tall and George Washington was known to be taller than Jefferson. As Benjamin Franklin said, (who himself was 6 feet tall) of Washington, 'He was always the tallest man in the room.'" http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_tall_is_George_Washington — Preceding unsigned comment added by FlameHorse (talk • contribs) 22:35, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

notabiltiy

this article is nothing but WP:TRIVIA what is enecyclopaedically notable about warranting an article such as this. And EL on the presidentas page would be plenty (anddoubtful there too).(Lihaas (talk) 13:20, 30 December 2010 (UTC)).

I think the article is more than just trivia. The belief that the taller presidential candidate has an advantage in elections is widespread, as evidenced by the numerous sources on this issue the article brings up. Whether height actually does play a role in presidential politics is a separate issue, but the fact that it is believed to play one is certainly notable. There are also issues of heightism involved here. Wcp07 (talk) 05:36, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

After reading the three archived deletion discussions (linked at the top of this talk page), it is safe to assume that many (if not most) Wikipedia editors consider this article both notable and verifiable. As such, I am removing both tags from the article mainspace. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:33, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Perception

This article does not address perhaps the most important aspect of its subject: voters' perceptions of height. That is to say, campaigns do not explicitly refer to their candidate's height either directly ("Our candidate is 6' 1" and we believe that this height will permit him to see over the obfuscation of his opponent, Sen. ....") or comparatively ("Our candidate is 4 inches taller than any other candidate in the race, and we believe that this will permit him to ....") or hyperbolically ("Now the tallest candidate ever!") or any other way. At least none that I've seen in the some fifty years that I've been tuned in to political campaigns. If height has any effect on voter choices, it has to come from voter perceptions of height differences. They could get these perhaps through the news, as in a recent NPR report on Tim Pawlenty, which described him as "tall and trim, with a good head of hair...." It had no specifics about height, though. The only clues voters have, then, are the view of candidates with other candidates or with other people whose heights they know, such as local or regional political figures or celebrities. With those perceptions comes some margin of error for estimating the height of a candidate. Can a voter, watching the action from afar at a political event or on television or in a news photo, make a discrimination of 1/2 inch in a candidate's height? Of an inch in a candidate's height? If you give a range of 1/2 inch for discrimination, the table of wins and losses has 19 taller winners rather than 26, 17 shorter winners rather than 19, and 13 of equal height (+/- 1/2 inch margin) rather than 4. If you give a range of 1 inch, the table has 16 taller winners, 16 shorter winners and 17 of equal height (+/- 1 inch margin). In other words, height as a discriminating factor in wins and losses disappears. Whoever wrote this article got caught up in the raw and absolute numbers, and didn't try to interpret them in the human context. MaxwellPerkins (talk) 07:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Photos prove the list is wrong

Some photos prove de list is not correct. My points in particular:

• Barack Obama appears to be taller than Bill Clinton in several images: Image 1; Image 2; Image 3. Obama is likely 188cm and Clinton 185cm.

• Ronald Reagan is shorter than Gerald Ford: Image 1, Image 2. I watched recently a documentry on TV in which Ford stood next to Lyndon Johnson, Ford appeared only little shorter than Johnson.

Jerchel (talk) 17:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Re Obama and Clinton, it's possible that Clinton's height has decreased with old age. Since the height of each President ideally should be their height at the time when they were in office, Clinton's height of 188 cm could well be accurate for 1992 but not so much for today.

Re Gerald Ford, it's possible he's taller than the 6'0"/183 cm he's listed as; I've seen him listed as 6'1"/185 cm in at least one other source. If we change his height, however, we should attribute his new height to a reliable source. Using photos can cause inaccurate height estimations, as the angle of the shot, the unevenness of the ground and the types of shoes that people are wearing can all affect how they measure up against one another. Wcp07 (talk) 09:00, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Neutrality tag discussion -- where is it?

This article is tagged for potential NPOV, but this discussion page does not seem to have a discussion specifically regarding what is non-neutral. I propose the tag should either be removed, or the editor who applied the tag amplify the reasons here, in this subsection. Reasonable? JoGusto (talk) 10:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)