Talk:Ali Shariati

Biography assessment rating comment ==

Untitled

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. -- KGV (Talk) 08:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

This article needs to be worked on.

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Did he really die?. Or did he go into a type of witness protection?.

I met in 1981 a man in the USA near Colorado ( close to the military base), that said he was his cousin. He looked identical to the late Shah in every way. A gentleman, but one with ideas on going back to claim zilllions of family monies or gold left behind he said. There were other thoughts he had which were quite interesting.

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—Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.45.70 (talk) 09:50, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Is it a given that SAVAK killed him, or is this just speculation? -- Zoe

It is a speculation Alireza Hashemi

Thanks, I'm going to put that into the article. -- Zoe

In addition to SAVAK, I believe it has also been speculated that he was murdered by supporters of the Khomeinist clerics, since after the clerical takeover the regime severely downplayed his role in the Revolution, and banned some of his works, since he was a deeply committed nationalist and supporter of Mossadegh and the National Front (Jebhe Melli), which the Khomeinist clerics were very much against. Shariati's rational and realist philosophy was also very much at odds with Khomeini's tyrannical fanaticism, so it would not be surprising at all if it was, in fact, Khomeini's own supporters who murdered him. I've heard this sort of speculation far more than the possibility of SAVAK having committed the deed. After all, the Shah did have the opportunity to have Khomeini killed, but didn't go for it, citing that he didn't want to create any martyrs. So this SAVAK idea doesn't make much sense. Just my two cents. -- Anon

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Copyright infrigement (The author of Shariati biography)

"All the materials in this page including texts, picture filesand audio files are protected by copyright regulations. All of their rightsare reserved and belong to Dr. Pooran Shariat-Razavi (Dr. Shariati's spouse) and Dr. Ehsan Shariati (Dr. Shariati's oldest son)."

........................ Dr Shariati belongs to the nation not the family! Where were they (the family) when we sat at his lectures and endangered our lives?

82.70.40.190

FALSE Quotations

82.70.40.190

“I have no religion, but if I were to choose one, it would be that of Shariati.” - Jean-Paul Sartre

This quotation is false and its NOT true. I dont know what kind of website or Encyclopedia is this that you can put whatever NONSENSE you like in it!!!!

The other thing is that, the organizers of the site first give the right to edit and when one try to edit they scream vandalism!!!!

My question: What is the source of the quotation? Shariati himself or his wife? (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24 June 2005))

regards —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 16:20, 22 June 2005.

We accept good-faith edits, not vandalism, not personal attacks on the subjects of articles, and not the adding of nonsense. I hope that that's clear now. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:07, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

HOW about the quotation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Farvahar (talk • contribs) 17:23, 22 June 2005.

I know of no grounds for suspecting its antecedents; it appears on various Web pages, in different versions, not only on the official Shariati Web page. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

You got to be kidding me? What is your education level? High school? Is this the level of quality of this so called Encyclopedia, refering to other websites? How about Jean-Paul Sartre site? Where and when did he say that? YOU HAVE NO IDEA, right?

Pleeeease! I asked for the source of the quote, you are not providing it, since there is none. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 18:46, 22 June 2005. (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24))

If I thought that you had any genuine reason for challenging it – if you'd made good-faith edits rather than childish vandalism – then I'd take the trouble to do a proper search. As it is... Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:59, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I was trying to prove that you lack QUALITY in your work.

When ANYone can post materials and ANYone else can edit it, then the whole site loses its credibility. furthermore I have proven that you are not able to corret and improve the information on your site, due first to your lack of knowledge and second your childish attitud. (corrected by Farvahar 11:05, 24))

You call it encyclopedia, I dont. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 22 June 2005.

Actually you've proved that we can detect and correct vandalism very quickly. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 18:14, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No boddy, you have proven that ignorant people can be found anywhere. Islamic terrorists and all the mullas in Iran thank you for your great work. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.250.82.62 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 22 June 2005.

OK, let's have a look at this quotation. From what I can see it is refered to a lot on various sties, but never with proper source information. I've not seen any reference to when and where he said it. I would sugggest that the quotation is either removed, or changed to read something like "according to xxx, Jean-Paul Sartre said: 'quote'". Thoughts? -- sannse (talk) 28 June 2005 11:07 (UTC)

Thank you for your input Sannse. All those sites have infact taken the quote from the "official Shariati Web page". If you go there you see the quote on the first page. This is my two cents, since there is no proper source, the quote should be removed. People who visit his web page will see the quote anyway, you shouldnt be "responsible" for it. If and when you find a proper source for the quote or ANY other evidence to support it, you could put it back. If you are really interested to improve this page on Shariati, you could contact this guy Siyavash AWESTA at http://persian.aria7000.com/usa.htm , he is Shariati's childhood friend and knows everything about him. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.156.10.51 (talk • contribs) 08:52, 29 June 2005.

The claim that all the sites took the quotation from the same source is conjecture; against it is the fact that they use different translations. I agree that it would be ideal if there was a specific source, and I'll keep looking — but multiple Web sources are surely good enough to keep it there for the moment. Given that the person insisting on its removal has vandalised the page on numerous occasions, and made comments suggesting a far from balanced and neutral stance, I'd want to see some grounds for rejecting the quotation to balance the grounds for accepting it. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 12:03 (UTC)

Its because different people translate the original quote which is in Farsi, thats why there are different translations. It is up to you to keep the level of quality of this site, if refering to other web sites is enough for you, then go ahead. If thats ALL you can do, I dont blame you. But in the world of academic(unfamiliar to some!!!!), quoting Jean-Paul Sartre and NOT having any real source for it, projects only low quality...... At the request of Sannse, I wont attack Mel Etitis personally, but only ask him to NOT distort the truth, refering to this comment(has vandalised the page on numerous occasions)!!!! AGAIN, this should NOT be about my actions here(my FIRST edit here), It should be about the FACTS. Question: Who should provide source for the facts introduced by this site, users or admins? Do users should prove YOU wrong or you should provide evidence for YOUR claim. Keep in mind that I AM NOT asking to add facts to this page, you are!! If I come here with a claim, without an evidence to prove it, do you put it on the site? If my evidence are only other sites do you allow me to add them to your site? Where lays the responsibilty for quailty and correctness? And one last thing, dont you think its more appropriate that this quote would be found in French and NOT in English???!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.156.10.51 (talk • contribs) 15:21, 29 June 2005.

1. It's pretty clear that one person is responsible for all the unsigned comments, as well as for the vandalism; the style suggests it, apart from anything else.
2. Are you saying that the original is in Farsi, or that it's in French (I assume that the latter is unlikely, as I'm unaware that Sartre spoke Farsi)?
3. If you mean, do I think that it's appropriate that the quotation be in English here, then yes, as this is an English-language encyclopædia. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 16:28 (UTC)

This is what I've found so far: the quotation appears on the back cover of Shariati on Shariati and the Muslim Woman, ed. Laleh Bakhtiar (Kazi Publications (1996). ISBN 1871031508) — this seems to be where some Web sites got it, at least.

That Shariati was known in Parisian intellectual circles seems clear (see, for example, [1], [2]), and the French wikipedia confirms that he knew Sartre. As Sartre corresponded with Fanon and Iqbal, the quotation could come from letters to one of them. When I have anything more specific, I'll post it here. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 29 June 2005 17:10 (UTC)

1-Well duhh.... Isnt it obvious. I didnt logged in when I wrote the above comments.

2-Yes thats what I am saying. And thats why Sartre could not have said it.

3-I mean IF Sartre have said it, then it should be VERY easy to find the quote in its original langauge, Sartre language. Which is more appropriate. But what you find is only in English and by Shaiati´s supporter and follwers and admirers, like this Laleh Bakhtiar. Doesnt prove anything.

Sartre and Shariati both went to Paris unversity, thats a known fact, but its not confirmed that they knew each other, or Sartre knew Shariati.

BTW, if you look at Amazon for the book Shariati on Shariati and the Muslim Woman, it says: By: Ali Shariati, Laleh Bakhtiar.

1. Why do you neither log in nor sign?
2. Why do you insist on the hostile and aggressive tone?
3. The fact that it appears somewhere in Farsi shows only that it was translated into Farsi, and certainly says nothing about whether or not Sartre could have said it.
4. I don't expect to find everything on the Web; why do you?
5. The book is a collection of pieces by Shariati, edited by Bakhtiar. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 30 June 2005 08:34 (UTC)

1- I maybe dont feel like it, or I might have forgotten, I might have other reasons. If your system allows me to write without logging in, then Its ALLOWED. Beside its VERY obvious that its the same person who is writing these comments.

2- Because I have NO respect for you and your wrok AT ALL. You dont know what you are doing, you have NO reason whatsoever for keeping the quote, you can NOT find any evidence for your claim, you refer to other webs sites to prove your case ....... but you still insist that you are right and you keep the false qoute on this page. I only respect knowledge.

3- Your arguments are weak as your logic. How dose finding a quote in Farsi prove the quote has been translated into Farsi? If the quote have been MADE UP in Farsi, then its found only in Farsi. You are assuming that the quote is correct, without having any proof. I suggest that you change the name of the site to "The free Assumptions".

4- If you base your whole world on the web, if your whole argument is that the quote exists on the web, therefore it MUST be true, then I also ask that you produce this quote in its original form on the web.

5- So THAT'S prove everything :), why didnt you say so :), come on!!!!

What comes first, your pride or quality of this site??????? ....... Farvahar ......

Mel, you shouldn't argue with Farvahar, he just doesn't like Shariati or anything related to Islam!

You people are reducing the whole value of Shariati's and Sartre's works to whether the quotation is true or not. It doesn't matter. In all probability, the quote was trumped up by someone who deeply respected Sartre but admired Shariati more, since I myself could not find the quote elsewhere. Sartre and Shariati were both completely independent human beings. Their worldviews differed, and if they were to judge each other's ideas, they would not be able to do so except by first reducing the other's ideas to the values of their own particular paradigms. That is why the world is not composed of just Existentialists or just Muslims. I myself am Muslim, and a particle physicist .. the Book repeatedly makes a strong point of how there are different worldviews, and therefore, to each his own. Farvahar, you need to overcome your Islamophobia and find more important things in your life to criticise, perhaps starting with your own self, not to sound too condescending. And in the true spirit of Shariati, we Muslims must be the ones to overcome Islamofascism and not have others who suffer from messiah complexes do it for us. Cheers.

Has Mel found any new evidence for his claims yet??

FALSE Quotations II

Forget this poppycock. There are some bloggers who cite the quote, no WP:RS by far, and it says so on Shariati's website, which is not a acceptable secondary source on anything Sartre related either. btw: Sartre was a radical twit, but not an Islamist - the quote is just the usual pious grandiloquence, popular in some places of the world, where green banners flutter and Western respect and acknowledgement direly felt absent. --tickle me 09:53, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

schooling

"University of Paris"? I thought he was a Sorbonne graduate. Somebody please chekc.--Zereshk 09:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC) 00:41, 13 May 2006 (UTC) 82.70.40.190

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he was killed either by SAVAK agents or by overzealous supporters of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

It is like saying " he ws killed by CIA or KGB! make your mind!

As MOSSAD does most of the Muslim assassinations why do you cut them out?

This is really a cock-up! You mean you even don’t know where the guy was graduated from?

82.70.40.190

University of Paris Sorbonne ;) Alireza Hashemi 02:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

SAVAK? Natural causes

Who writes that SAVAK killed him? In his biography [3] Ali Rahnema doesnt say anything about SAVAK killing him. In the book he writes that Mr. Shariati died of natural causes in London and he lists official death certificate and medical report which shows that this is true. There is no mention in the biography about SAVAK or anyone killing him which sounds like conspiracy theory. Khorshid 09:43, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

From the detailed account of the circumstances in Rahnema's book (drawn in part from Shariati's own family) it is hard to see that he could have been assassinated. 122.163.206.66 (talk) 07:46, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

more info on him!

Hello diligent workers, I am a fan of Ali Shariati's work, and wished to ask you all if you could put more information of his work on his wiki page. I have read most of the links provided by you at the end of the page (external links) but I just wanted to know, why such a famous writer/intellectuel as himself is not worth of a long and informative page filled with content related to his philosophy —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 21:38, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

rewriting

Deleted this sentence as misleading: "He became the main figure in the Iranian revolution in absence of Ayatollah Khomeini." Makes it sound like Khomeini dropped out and Shariati filled in. Of course Shariati died before the revolution and Khomeini dominated the events of the revolution. --BoogaLouie (talk) 16:33, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Shariati &Ali Khameini

The following needs to be removed or a credible source should be supplied.

``He also had a close relationship with Ayatollah Seyed Ali Khamenei,the current leader of Iran``

Shariati never had relations with Khameini and on top of that its an insult to his great name and philosophical works, he never collaborated with clerics (even though his father was a notable cleric himself), his idea of red shiism is in direct opposition to cleric authority. Please remove this. Its nothing short of propaganda in the name of Khameini the dictator.

Shariati didn`t even have deep relations with notable clerics at the time (Taleqani, Khomeini). Khameini was and still is a noone, during the revolution and well before it, his name was unheard of, a nobody. In fact even Khomeini at the time, who held a reputation, was not as well known as Shariati and his works. Khameini was promoted to a rank he didnt deserve (marja) just to fulfil a post he himself nor the public viewed as legitimate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 04:19, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Article Lacks

This article is lacking a lot of things. For one, someone should write about his trip to Algeria and how he joined the Algerian Freedom Movement with Frantz Fanon (who he had met while in jail).

He also had a relationship with some of the brightest intellectuels of the 20th century, such as Sartre, who is quoted to have said 'I have no religion but if I were to choose one it would be that of Shariati's'.

Please someone write extensively on Ali Shariati, he is a very slept on intellectual figure who deserves a lot more recognition! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.121.28 (talk) 07:18, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Please expand Shariati's wikipage!

Can someone please, please do so. If I was gifted with decent writing abilities I would but I am not.

Extend Wikipage

Shariati also read many poetic works, namely Sufi works by Molana, Hafez, Sadi, Ferdowsi, Hallaj, Junayd, Qazi Abu Yusef, Shabastari, Qusheri, Abu Said Abol Kheirr and Bayazid Bastami. He was highly influenced by Anatole France and read many of the works of Franz Kafka, Arthur Sschopenhauer. Shariati in his own works, had six rhyming poems, and of particular interest is the speeches of the Prophet Mohammad. He was a Mossadeqist at a time when people in Iran belonged to either the Tudeh or Mossadeq camp. Shariati got into fights at school and was even beaten up once by Tudeh followers. Shariati got involved into politics or started reading about it after he had formulated a lot of knowledge in Persian poetry and literature, and even read some of the translated works of Enlightened philosophers from Europe.

Shariati was also a Sufi follower of Malamatiyan early in his life. Among these, there are many interesting aspects of his life and if someone can add more things on his wikipage, I will be more than willing to provide the content of biographical works on Shariati. A really good book on his life is by Ali Rahnema's 'An Islamic Utopian: A political Biography of Ali Shariati'

Shariati in popular works is always said to have been influenced by Franz Fanon, Sartre, Marxism but this is not entirely true. He was also influenced by the lesser known Iranian author Ahmad Kasravi, especially his criticisms of idolatrous rituals and practices of Shiism which is echoed in Shariati's work (Black Shiism - Red Shiism). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ditc (talk • contribs) 23:32, 15 March 2010 (UTC)

Merci

Salamalykum and thank you for extending Dr. Shariati's wikipage. You have brought blessings upon his name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 05:01, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

relationships

It is worth noting that Shariati was a friend of Jean Paul Sartre, who is quoted as saying "I have no religion but if I were to choose one it would be that of Shariati's" (SOURCE: http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=i+have+no+religion+but+if+I+were+to+choose+one+it+would+be+that+of&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=12d854179172b838)

Michel Foucault also wrote extensively on the Iranian Revolution in some papers published in an Italian newspaper. He also mentions the character of Shariati (http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/007863.html)

Shariati was not only a political figure, in fact before he even got into politics (aligning himself with Mossadeqists and becoming actively involved in politics) he studied and read a lot about Sufism (Molana, Hafez, Sadi, Ferdowsi, Hallaj, Junayd, Qazi Abu Yusef, Shabastari, Qusheri, Abu Said Abol Kheirr and Bayazid Bastami). He is even known to have quit politics for a while and focused solely on his spiritual journey (sufism). He wrotes on this subject and how the Prophet was always concerned about the people's well being and welfare while at the same time maintaining a strong relationship with God, conversely he wrote about how Sufis are only concerned with their relationship with God and not so much the people because people distract them from realizing their oneness with God. These are some random points but worth noting source- Ali Rahnema's 'An Islamic Utopian: A political Biography of Ali Shariati —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 07:32, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

weak argument

the following needs to be removed or reassessed based on it's credibility and logic.

"However, some counter that Islamist hard-liners are to blame, on the basis of similar treatment of Ahmad Kasravi."

Ahmad Kasravi is an exception because his view on religion was radically different than Shariati, even granted the fact that Shariati's concept of Red/Black Shiism was influenced by Kasravi. Ahmad was anti clerical and even irreligious to a point, especially when he wrote on the Shia Imam Jafar Sadeq and criticized his character (saying things like Jafar didn fight injustice but instead stayed in his home writing papers). Shariati never criticized religion to the point and degree that Kasravi did so therefore Kasravi cannot be used as an example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 07:38, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

good Shariati quote

or add onto "notes from speech" section

My Lord, grant me success in struggling during failure, in having patience in disappointment, in going alone, in Jihad without weapons, in working without pay, in making sacrifice in silence, in having religious belief in the world, in having ideology without popular traditions, in having faith without pretensions, non-conformity without immaturity, beauty without physical appearance, loneliness in the crowd, and loving without the beloved knowing about it. My Lord, You teach me how to live; I shall learn how to die. Ali Shariati علی شريعتی —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.113.143 (talk) 07:40, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

To Ali With Love

Can someone please kindly add more pictures, here is a link to Dr.Shariati's facebook, on page six, is a picture of his shrine in Damascus, Syria.

source: http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1353769015#!/photo.php?pid=281907&op=6&o=global&view=global&subj=11749543630&id=1832351999

Please update more pictures, and if I could, I would.

Thank you kindly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.97.19 (talk) 19:04, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

studied philology and not sociology?

In Ervand Amrahamian's book 'the iranian mojahedin', he states that 'shariati won a scholarship to study philogoy at the Sorbonne (p. 106)....many in Iran still think that he studied sociology rather than philology (p.107)..'

I'm not sure if this is correct but it would make sense, given that Shariati translated the works of Abdol Hamid Jawdat (Abu Zarr: the socialist God Worshipper), Louis Massignon (al-Hallaj and Salman Pak), Che (Guerilla warfare), Frantz Fanon (A Dying Colonialism and weretched of the earth), J.P. Sartre (What is Poetry?), Ozegan (partially translated -- Le Meilleur Combat)...

Someone please verify this. I never read this in Rahnema's Biography of Ali Shariati : Islamic Utopian nor in any other book on Shariati, perhaps but even on Ervand's journal article Shariati Islamic ideologue (not sure if this is correct title but something similar to it). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.132.222 (talk) 18:53, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

sources?

The following paragraph is extremely problematic and controversial. Exactly WHERE did this info COME FROM?

Shariati was allowed to leave the country for England. He died three weeks later in a Southampton hospital. This was a juncture of time when hard line islamists were regrouping and putting up an agenda to take over. They were supported by Syria and Libya. This triad would be known as "Jebheh Emtena" or the untied front for negation, challenging west powers in the region. Syria gave the team who was responsible for killing him, and snatching his body away to Syria, enormous logistic support including air support. Shariati's death was the subject of some controversy. The Syrian government sent an empty airliner to pick the body out of reach fearing that the body reaching his motherland would be autopsied. Some hope that a change in Syria could lead to the release of new information on Shariati's death. [edit] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.104.182 (talk) 06:39, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

deleted section

I understand I am not authorized to delete a section but the following excerpt (see above) which was recently added has absolutely no reference and is an unfounded accusation. Nowhere will you ever find such a conspiracy theory.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/007863.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.81.5.140 (talk) 04:38, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

incoherent quote

the quote from Shariati saying people in the East are praying and sweating (clear liquid) and yet they are frustrated and that the people from the West are enjoying themselves and drinking liquor hence they are happy or successful doesn't make any sense. This quote which was translated from farsi into english doesn't read right and should be removed.