Talk:Salsa music

add a link to Izzy?

Could someone add a link to Izzy Sanabria? He was instrumental in popularizing the term "salsa." His site is here: http://www.salsamagazine.com/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.0.58.18 (talk • contribs) 07:16, 12 February 2006

FAR concerns

As of what it is now, I plan on bringing Salsa music to FAR. However, I have to list concerns on the talk page first. In the lead, the article is tagged with a {{Original research}} tag. Also, I see unreferenced sections in the article, as well as a large amount of Red link all over the page. If anyone is interested in fixing up the article, please let me know if you want to as I will not watchlist this page. GamerPro64 (talk) 21:47, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

What is FAR? Cold Salsero (talk) 04:25, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Talk Page Too Long, Set Up Auto Archiving?

This discussion page has gotten way too big, we should begin archiving older discussions. For instructions on how to do this, visit Help:Archiving a talk page.

I would like to set up automatic archiving of this discussion page. Information about automatic archiving can be found at Wikipedia:ARCHIVE#Automated_archival and Wikipedia:ARCHIVE#Automatic_archive_box. Is there anyone who disagrees with this? Cold Salsero (talk) 04:23, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

Sounds good. I see you've already set this [1] (also, I saw your note [2] on the helpdesk). I've tidied up a bit. Cheers,  Chzz  ►  04:17, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Claim That Trombone Is a Defining Characteristic of Salsa

I marked this claim as needing citation. You can see that claim made in the picture subtitle for the trombone in the Characteristics section.

I've never heard this stated before; instead, I'm always reading and hearing about how the clave is a defining characteristic of salsa, and in my experience, the tumbao pattern in the congas also set salsa apart from Son, which is another Afro-Cuban music genre with clave, but doesn't have conga tumbao, and so doesn't sound and feel the same as salsa.

--Rumba y Son (talk) 08:49, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

The tumbao pattern in the congas is not in ancient Son but is in Son Montuno and Mambo. All these styles are called "Salsa" by non Cuban speakers. From this point of view is clave pattern the common thing in all styles called "Salsa" (guaracha, son, son montuno, mambo, chachacha, etc.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.124.137.20 (talk) 22:15, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

So I checked the archives, and apparently I'm not the only person to have challenged the claim that the trombone is "a defining characteristic of salsa". Unless anyone objects, I'll the claim and the picture and replace it with something that is indeed always an important part of salsa music, the conga drums.

--Rumba y Son (talk) 06:06, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

En los momentos en que se era salsero o antisalsero, es decir, cuando dejó de emplearse la razón, el maestro Armando Romeu ilustró en varias charlas -o clases magistrales- las principales diferencias, al menos entonces (años 70) entre la Salsa y la música que se ejecutaba entre nosotros; y con una simple ecuación de primer grado explicaba la diferencia en los planos tímbrico y orquestal; allá (en Nueva York) habían cambiado y modernizado las secciones de vientos, manteniendo el ritmo tradicional; aquí se había hecho todo lo contrario, introduciendo la electrónica en el bajo y los teclados. Veinte años más tarde, diríamos que en líneas generales hay diferencias en: la manera de tocar y combinar los instrumentos de percusión; los montunos del piano; los bajos; los arreglos y formatos orquestales; las voces (inflexiones vocales, improvisaciones y estribillos); los movimientos escénicos, y los textos cantados.

Es un hecho conocido que los salseros en sus textos reflejan la vida cotidiana y la lucha social de la minoría hispanoparlante más o menos marginada en Nueva York y otras grandes ciudades de Estados Unidos y el Caribe. Y el hecho de que haya características propias de los textos de un género o estilo de música popular es importante, como lo demuestran la guaracha, el guaguancó, el tango, la ranchera, los blues, el bolero, y más recientemente la nueva trova.

Please write your comments in English. Since this is an English Wikipedia article, you should expect your audience to only understand English, not Spanish. Sorry. --Rumba y Son (talk) 00:46, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Not enough credit given to Nuyoricans

Salsa was born in New York City, with obvious influence from Cuba, Puerto Rico and African American music. Whoever wrote this wiki salsa article is VERY bias and contradicts himself in the interpretation of salsa music history. I CHALLENEGE HIS IGNORANCE!!! Solo se cita convenientemente a los musicos que apoyan que la salsa es cubana cuando otros musicos han opinado diferente ... el articulo tiene que citar toda opinion de todo musico de la salsa para que no sea BIAS.

Mira unos simples ejemplos ... citando al Cubano Leonardo Acosta ...

"En cuanto a parámetros exclusivamente musicales, hemos señalado los arreglos y formatos orquestales, con la preeminencia del trombón entre los vientos, lo cual proviene de una tradición boricua que pasa directamente de Mon Rivera a Willie Colón y se impone hoy en Cuba. Otro ejemplo sería el del contrabajo, que en Nueva York y el mundo salsero sigue la línea establecida por Cachao, Julio Andino y Bobby Rodríguez, mientras en Cuba se impuso el bajo-guitarra. Andy González lamenta con razón este cambio, con el cual se pierde la profundidad y el swing que proporciona el contrabajo acústico a la sección rítmica afrocubana (y al jazz). Andy, quien ha visitado Cuba, atribuye esa pérdida al hecho de que en la isla no entró el 'baby bajo' –sólo producido por la Ampeg en USA-, que posee las ventajas de la amplificación electrónica sin perder la calidad del sonido del contrabajo (Larry Birnbaum, 1992). En cuanto a los cantantes, al escuchar a ciertos salseros resulta evidente lo que deben a los pleneros y demás tradiciones vocales del Caribe. Por este camino y mediante el análisis de una discografía bien seleccionada, podríamos llegar a enumerar una serie de aportes de esta música a la tradición afrocubana y afroantillana. Baste ahora señalar que gracias a la 'actualización' o 'reinterpretación' de nuestra música por los 'neoyorricans' y otros caribeños, ésta siguió difundiéndose por el mundo durante tres décadas de aislamiento de la música cubana." Herencia Latina (http://www.herencialatina.com/Leonardo_Acosta/Termino_La_Polemica_Sobre_La%20_Salsa.htm)

"El historiador cubano Alejo Carpentier diría, que el Son vino a ser cubano, no por su origen, sino por su forma de interpretación. Igual ocurrió con la Salsa, que vino a ser puertorriqueña, no por su lugar de origen sino por su forma de interpretación." [ver más] Héctor A. García, Investigador e historiador puertorriqueño

El son tiene origen en La Isla Hispaniola ... Hermanas Gines, Manfugas, etc ... la llevaron a Cuba, PERO es Cubana por lo que dijo Carpentier.

Respuesta de Gloria Estefan: "...Cuando pienso en la música cubana, yo no pienso en 'La Salsa'. Pienso en la Rumba, Son Montuno y cosas así. Pienso que la verdadera Salsa, cuando se habla de sus sonidos y lo que la gente llama Salsa, es de Puerto Rico." Gloria Estefan - San Juan Star, entrevista de octubre 15,1995

"La música cubana es música cubana, la salsa es otra cosa". Israel López Cachao, músico cubano

"La salsa es un producto cultural para estúpidos”, dijo Dámaso Pérez Prado

"A Jerry Masucci (creador junto a Johnny Pacheco de la Fania) hay que darle el crédito por el éxito que obtuvo esta música, eso es innegable. Sin embargo en el otro lado de la ecuación, lo cierto es que su compañía (Masucci-Pacheco) se quedaba con casi la totalidad de los beneficios creados por estos artistas musicales. Esta situación le quita meritos a su gestión por no haber sido justo con los que crearon esta música." Rubén Blades, entrevistado por George Rivera

Y hay mucho mas .... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ninabeba (talk • contribs) 15:48, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

This article has been edited by many users, not a single author: if you look at the revision history statistics, it has had 907 users (so far) who have edited it since it was created in 2002, and that's not counting people who have not signed up for usernames (ip addresses). The article also cites a number of sources, some (if not all) of which are strong, credible academic sources, such as Hutchinson, Sydney (2004). "Mambo On 2: The Birth of a New Form of Dance in New York City" (PDF). CENTRO Journal. 16 (2): 109–137. Retrieved 12 August 2011., which was published in 2004 and comes from CENTRO Journal, from the Center for Puerto Rican Studies of Hunter College at The City University of New York. If you would like to change anything, I suggest that you make sure that what you change is not your own original research, and that it can be backed up by citations from credible sources that other people can verify.

Finally, I do not intend to sound mean or disrespectful, but since this is an English Wikipedia article, I think it would be productive for discussion if you wrote your comments in English and not Spanish. I for one do not understand a lot of Spanish, so I cannot understand most of what you wrote.

--Rumba y Son (talk) 00:44, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

If you barely understand spanish then you should not write or contribute to the subject since most of the history on Salsa has been written in spanish. It would be like a Mexican that barely knows English and writes on the history of Rock. I have seen this site for years and it gets worst everytime and loaded with contradictions. Example: "From New York salsa quickly expanded back to Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Colombia, Mexico, Venezuela, and other Latin countries (except Cuba due to the Cuban Embargo)". How can something go back to a place it never came from? Or why would it go back to Cuba if its "Cuban" to begin with? Just the mention of it "from New York" its a clear admition that this style is ... well, "from New York". When did rock and roll go back to USA? All the spanish posts I put are of major artists, mainly Cubans, that don't consider Salsa Cuban music. Everyone knows it developed in New York, with obvious Cuban and Puerto Rican influence. But just like Rock and Roll has its influence from R&B and Rockabilly, you cant say its black music or white music when its a fusion of older styles of american music from two diferent "american" races. Is Rock and roll the same as british rock? Is it the same as heavy metal or punk rock or alternative? One came from the other, but its not the same. Why all these names and descriptions of rock? Because although they had common ancestors they are unique to places, eras and sound. Salsa has that evolution. Salsa essentially refers to cuban\puertorican fusion developed in New York City in the 60's and 70's. Anything else is a contradiction or simply a lie. Swing Music? Is it Jazz or not? Yes and no. Its Jazz essentials but played in Big Bang format with addition of obvious intruments and style. One came from the other, but you cant say tis the same thing. If a veteran wants to here Swing, are you going to put Jazz? Or if he wants to here Jazz, are you going to put Swing? Its simply not the same. This Salsa article sucks big time and contradicts itself to much. Originally it had a Guaracha picture years ago representing a Salsa band. When I mentioned it someone put an actual picture of a Salsa band ... but every other year that I go back to this site it gets worst in actual history versus many opinions and only a fraction of opinions are mentioned, NOT THE FULL STORY. Opinions are important but not factual. There are Germans that deny the holocaust. This article needs to be consistent and started from scratch giving credit where its due and at the appropiate level.