Talk:Epicanthic fold

An

.."An epithcanthal fold...is the origin of the...term "mongoloid."

What does that mean? A-giau 10:23, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just guessing here, but mongoloid now means people with down syndrome and asians. They both have the epicanthal fold. Mongoloid first refered to Asians (Mongol +oid) a bit latter it was applied to down syndrome people because they looked a bit asian. Hope this helps.Itler005 22:30, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

First, it's Down Syndrome (in caps) and Asians (in caps). Second, for at least the last thirty years it has been unacceptable to call people with Down Syndrome "Mongoloids", a practice which is demeaning to both Mongols and those affected with Down Syndrome. Myles325a (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

the term is still utilized in scientific literature by all sides e.g. asians , historically speaking the mongols have made significant impressions on the europeans - kahn and atilla - and since other asian ethnicities resemble the mongols more or less in facial characteristics , the europeans have made the connection from mongols to mongol-oids with oids meaning resembles .

in medical literature , the term is not used as of today . it's been discovered that people with down syndrome simply have excessive genetic content - they have an extra chromosome or part of an extra chromosome , the term to describe this phenomena is trisomy . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.64.117 (talk) 17:33, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and should provide complete and accurate history and ideology of words and phrases which are relevant to an article. Should evolving standards of civility, tolerance, in deference to other cultural norms render an older word or phrase demeaning or politically incorrect, Wikipedia should not "rewrite" history, but rather, assume the modern norm is known or reference it parenthetically. Articles are written for a global audience and history has to be recorded accurately. It is more demeaning to whitewash over prejudices suffered by a group of people. Should the article regarding the Anne Carlsen Center omit any reference to the Crippled Children's School? 76.14.128.97 (talk) 17:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)Da5id403 (talk) 17:29, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

Picture of Child With Downs Syndrome

The child in this photo does NOT have an epicanthic fold... Therefore this picture is inappropriate for this article and would best be removed. --69.216.135.167 17:56, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

America

Don't Amerindians and Eskimo have it too?

Many Latin Americans have it, too. This is because, like the American Indian and the Eskimo, their ancestors crossed over the Bering Strait landbridge tens of thousands of years ago.--YoungFreud 12:42, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Epicanthic folds are more common in Native Americans than most other populations in the world beside East/South East Asians. BUT, the occurance of epicanthic folds in Native Americans is much less prominant than with East Asians. They tend to be most common among indigenous of the northern most populations/tribes. I have also noted they also seem fairly common among some arawak tribes of the Amazon. 69.213.87.141 13:34, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Foolish white. the epicanthal fold is a sign of superiority and intelligence. Asians > cRA KERS

who are you calling white? Surely not I!

Irish

I'm not going to add this, because I want to hear confirmation from somebody with a stronger anthropology background; but I have read before that the expression 'Irish eyes' refers to the tendency among Irish people to have whole or partial epicanthic folds. John F Kennedy had such a feature. (I did too when I was a child, though according to the article this is common among children who aren't of Irish descent as well.) QuartierLatin 1968 02:25, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

i am scottish, with possible irish heritage, and i have very distinct epicanthal folds....

so in regards to the irish thing, well, yes so it seems so!

In response to the two posts above: I have never heard this before, but I'll have to add myself to the anecdotal evidence of epicanthal folds as a possible feature of people of Irish descent. I have had very distinct epicanthal folds since birth and on into adulthood and I am of English, Irish, and German extraction. No one else in my family has this trait, though, so I can't figure out where it came from. And I don't think that JFK can be said to have had epicanthal folds, based on looking at some pictures of him online. Coreyander 04:47, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

epicanthic fold is not unheard of in scottish peoples, this may be due to gentic backgrounds involving scythians via the pictish people or from the 5000 sarmation shoulder brought in by the romans. I have epicanthic fold as do many of my male relatives and Im scottish descent. Some of my relatives also have exhibited mongolian spot.

Oz Clarke, Billy Davies, Louis Walsh - British/Irish people with folds, off the top of my head. 167.1.176.4 (talk) 07:28, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

---

Hi: Adding to conversation here. I keep coming across people on the net stating that they are 100% white yet have EPICANTHIC FOLDS. Usually they identify as Celtic, Portuguese, Spanish or Italian. It's understandable that many don't know what I'm about to share, we're not all geeks like me. So here goes.

Celtic? Theories have been put forth that the Celts are actually a hybrid group resulting from the mingling of Caucasian & Asiatic peoples in the regions of the Caucaus mountains/Eurasian steepe before begining their migrations west. Once arriving in the British Isles/Gaul they then interbreed w/ the resident population recorded as having dark complextions, eyes and hair. These persons have genetically been confirmed as having Asiatic and Cro-Magnon origins (ie Basques). Therefore, those thinking they have "100%" white Celtic blood, don't quite understand what Celtic really is. That's ok.

As for those 100% white Italians, Spanish and Portuguese. These regions consisted of the mingling of Caucasian, Asiatic, Middle Eastern and African peoples. Native Iberians interbreed with Celts. These offspring interbreed with Romans. Then came the Germanics and finally the Arabs, Berbers and other absorbed populations that arrived during the Moslem conquests which swept from Eurasia to the Atlantic. So its not suprising that those who think they are 100% white have EPICANTHIC FOLDS...they're not 100% white. And that's great. Kinda dispells the myth of racial purity in Western Europe doesn't it?

Quick side note, those from Scandanavia and Germany who claim pure "Aryan" blood need to realize that 1) their Viking forebears brought back captured women from Celtic Countries, the Middle East & Africa w/ whom they interbreed (making modern Scandavians), 2) the Norse interbreed w/ the indigenous Saami populations of Scandanavia who have genetically/linguistically shown to be of partial Asiatic & Cro-Magnon origin(again making modern Scandanavians), 3) the Roman legions placed on the Northern border of the Empire were largly taken from the Southern Provinces (North Africa & the Middle East) and gradually interbreed w/ the local Germanic populations. This was to lessen the risk of Roman soldiers joining with the subdued population in any insurrection. So this supposed pure "Aryan" race (which by the way is an Sanskrit word appropriated by Germanic racists) never really existed......and if it did it ended by (at the latest) in the 1100's AD. So we were all big mutts even before we got to the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.71.217.81 (talk) 09:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Epicanthoplasty

Epicanthoplasty is the name of the operation for reduction of Epicanthal fold. Blepharoplasty is the creation of a "double eyelid" from a "single".--Hontogaichiban 01:01, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

"Blepharoplasty" is a generic term for reshaping the eyelid. Perhaps you are referring to Asian blepharoplasty. -AED 17:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for that, you're right and I certainly did mean to say Asian blepharoplasty.--Hontogaichiban 22:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Down Syndrome

I fail to see why Down Syndrome should be mentioned in this article? I believe individuals with Down Syndrome also have mouths but it doesn't mention that on the mouth page!? I can see why it might be mentioned on the Down Syndrome page as a feature that is more exaggerated in that condition, but here I would have to question the reason it has been stated.--Hontogaichiban 13:34, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I've read from somewhere that the Down syndrome anomalous fold is not actually the same as a healthy fold. But, an epicanthal fold on a person who normally wouldn't have one is a simple diagnostic clue, and has to be mentioned. The issue here is like with lactose intolerance: a "disease" in Europe and genetically associated areas, but normal elsewhere; yet lactose intolerance is a symptom of irritable bowel syndrome, which is not normal anywhere. --Vuo 01:33, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

When there is a dispute like this, it certainly helps to provide references for the assertions. -AED 03:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your input on this one, I am always open to being proved wrong! :) However, I'm still not happy about this. Firstly, if the fold in question is not the same as an epicanthal fold and is best refered to as "Down syndrome anomalous fold" then it shouldn't be here, it should either be on a separate page or on the "Down syndrome" page. Also please define "a person who normally wouldn't have one". I don't think in the vast majority of cases, clues are normally required in diagnosing Down Syndrome, the diagnosis is fairly obvious and straight forward. As for IBS, not all IBS suffers are lactose intolerant, not by a long way, do you have a source for this one?--Hontogaichiban 02:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

And "Cri du chat anomalous fold"? The article is about the feature, not just about its occurence in people of various ethnicities. (Red hair mentions its incidence as a symptom of kwashiorkor, for example.)

I imagine "a person who normally wouldn't have one" has as intended referent a person who has a chromosomal variation who, in the counterfactual situation where they did not have that variation (i.e. the mutation in their gamete which caused the variation failed to occur, or was reversed early in embryonic development), and from then on experienced a healthy, typical pregnancy, would have been born without an epicanthal fold. (Yes, I know I'm just rephrasing. Personally, I believe that causality is a primitive concept. "Normally", again, is incredibly slippery, but I think I know what Vuo meant by the term; I can't see any wildly different interpretations that would still make sense. I doubt Vuo is referring to a person who has temporarily acquired an epicanthal fold through makeup or cosmetic surgery, for one.)

As for diagnosis, all diagnostic indicators are clues in some sense. When a baby who has Down syndrome is born, if prenatal tests have not indicated the baby as having the syndrome, epicanthal folds will be one of the indicators leading to medical practicioners pursuing a diagnosis of Down syndrome, if the epicanthal folds are unexpected given the baby's parentage. -- EdC 09:13, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm comfortable with the way you have phrased it now.--Hontogaichiban 12:19, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I hope people realise why adding this to this page is controversal. I note that on the down syndrome page the only mention of epicanthal folds is to point out how linking this feature between down syndrome and people with inherited epicanthal folds lead to a degree of racism that continues to this day. So it seems that to mention it here in this much smaller article is out of proportion and potentially misleading.

"English physician John Langdon Down first characterized Down syndrome as a distinct form of mental retardation in 1862, and in a more widely published report in 1866 entitled "Observations on an ethnic classification of idiots".[1] Because of his perception that Down syndrome children shared physical facial similarities (epicanthal folds) with Mongolians, he used the terms mongolism and mongolian idiocy.[2] "Idiocy" was a medical term of the century referring to a severe degree of intellectual impairment." - Quote from Down syndrome article.

--Hontogaichiban 13:09, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't see racism mentioned in that context; I do realise that it's a sensitive topic, but that's no reason to omit encyclopædic facts. Anyway, if the mere mention of a topic in an article appears to overemphasise that topic, the solution is not to remove the topic but to expand the article. We don't have anything on the connotations of epicanthic folds in various East Asian cultures, for example. That's something that I'm certainly not qualified to begin to write about, but if you could add any information it would help to redress the balance. We should (I think) be aiming for something like the article on red hair, which also deals with a minority phenotype with positive and negative connotations in the societies where it does occur. EdC 16:45, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree with everything you've said.

Re racism in the down syndrome article, what it is refering to there is the linking on down syndrome and the Asian "race" which still has ramifications today. I don't mind all this information being included, I just want to ensure it is done carefully and I hope we can all work together to achieve this.--Hontogaichiban 17:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

"Slanted eyes"

User:Hontogaichiban: you removed a sentence (diff), deceptively marking it as a minor edit. I appreciate that you did so in good faith, but "slanted eyes" is (whether you like it or not) a common shorthand in colloquial English for the appearance of epicathal folds. As such, it should be preserved, perhaps moved later in the article with a mention that the term carries undesirable undertones. But I'll let you do that. EdC 07:40, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't accept that "slanted eyes" is a common shorthand in colloquial English for the appearance of epicathal folds. Not only is it technically incorrect but it is also potentially offensive. Here is a dictionary defintion[1]:

:slant    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (slnt)
:v. slant·ed, slant·ing, slants 
:v. tr.
:To give a direction other than perpendicular or horizontal to; make diagonal; cause to slope: She slants her letters from :upper right to lower left. 
:To present so as to conform to a particular bias or appeal to a certain audience: The story was slanted in favor of the :strikers. 

:v. intr.
:To have or go in a direction other than perpendicular or horizontal; slope.

:n. 

:A line, plane, course, or direction that is other than perpendicular or horizontal; a slope. 
:A sloping thing or piece of ground. 
:Printing. A virgule. 

:A personal point of view or opinion. 
:A bias. 
:Offensive Slang. Used as a disparaging term for a person of East Asian birth or descent. 

Even if there are parts of the English speaking world where this term is not offensive, in this international encyclopedia, I do think we could avoid this term in favour of another. Which is actually present in the article already. When I removed the sentence it made no difference to the information content of the article leading me to believe the sentence may have been added as vandalism of some kind which lead me (without adequate thought) to mark it as a minor edit. - I do accept that this was an error on my part and which could amount to deception which I don't approve of in other people and I apologise for doing it in this case.--Hontogaichiban 12:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually having just reviewed what was actually written, I removed it primarily because in the way it is used in the article it is just plain wrong. The article does not say that "slanted eyes" is a colloquial description, it states factually that <various features> do give the appearence of slanted eyes. This is simply incorrect.--Hontogaichiban 12:42, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I have moved the phrase into its own section, although it does seem out of proportion to the rest of the article. Also please feel free to edit this if you feel it could be written better.--Hontogaichiban 13:11, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I see that. I appreciate the edit was made in good faith. I would point out that:

• The term has reasonably wide currency (111,000 pages on Google);
• The offensive slang marker is attached to "slant" as a noun, which I would consider highly offensive. "Slanted eyes" I would term less so.
• We do have a list of ethnic slurs, wherein:

  • Slant-Eye, Slit-Eye, Slant, Slant-Eyed Devil, Slant-Eyed Demon

    (UK Commonwealth & U.S.) a person of Asian descent

Further, I would contend that (a) the term(s) should be explained, and (b) they should be explained here. And that holds especially if the terms carry an incorrect assumption. -- EdC 17:22, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I will add Slit-eyed to the article and a link to the list of ethnic slurs. Fortunatley I have not heard the other terms list in use in the UK at least and so won't bother to add them here. If you feel they should be included feel free to add them. Cheers.--Hontogaichiban 01:00, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, here is an example of political correctness gone mad. When I came across this article, the first thing that I thought of was "Is this fold something that makes Chinese people look slant eyed, or is that done by some SECOND genetic trait?" Here we have an article that totally avoids this because "slanted eyes" is regarded as offensive, whereas "rounded eyes" is not. If you met an Asian person for the first time, this is the second thing you would notice after their yellow skin. If you were to write back home and describe this person, could you not reasonably say that their eyes were slanted compared to an Englishmen's, or would that be a racist slur? How stupid can you get! I suppose there are some who would argue that to be all proper and precious, you would say they exhibited epicanthic folds, that is use formal Latinate piece of medical jargon, and advise your reader to look it up on a medical site. And that would be better. Latin medical words are used for parts of the body that are considered indecent if publicly displayed, like vagina, penis, rectum and so on. So, why would calling slanted eyes, ocular entities exhibiting epicanthic folds be a better way of talking about a human? I'm going to add a reasonable and non-offensive detail to the effect that folds ARE the reason that Asian people's eyes look slanted. The preceding discussion above my contribution here could have come straight from "Alice in Wonderland". It's just complete gibberish. The fact that some word can have an offensive connotation to SOME people in SOME places is not a reason to forget that it can be used in totally innocuous and aptly descriptive ways too. For example, to some people, the term Jew is about the same as a swear word. But there is nothing wrong in using the word when it correctly identifies a person of the Hebrew faith. So much for "slanted eyes" being regarded by some as a "slur". So are a million other words for people with twisted minds, and we aren't writing or catering to them here at WP, are we? Myles325a (talk) 07:44, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

The fact you take the term "yellow skin" literally makes you lose any credibility you have, idiot. --68.123.152.132 (talk) 09:04, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I don't want to agree, saying "yellow skin" does really make that whole argument be thrown out the window, in fact that's when I stopped reading... As for this whole debate, no matter how many times you've used it, the fact is that even Webster classifies it as "Vulgar and slang", so no matter how much easier it would've been for you to understand it WITH the slang, NO credible encyclopedia would ever use the slang to describe something. Just like the "Black People" article won't have the n-word in it, or Chinese have c-word, and so on. It's not just a matter of respect towards a people, it's a self-serving unwritten (as far as I know) policy that if Wiki wants to be taken seriously it has to do. As a matter of fact I wasn't even aware that it's slang, or offensive, but that doesn't matter. ANY vulgar/slang work only belongs in it's own page with an explanation of what it is, and why it's offensive. The only time we would ever use a slang word is like, "More commonly known as ____", where the blank is NEVER a vulgar/offensive word, as this one is clearly defined by dictionaries. 24.91.72.168 (talk) 01:38, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to kick a dead horse, but Asian's do have yellow-ish skin tint. My grandmother is %100 Korean. They also have the titular epicanthic fold, which gives them the appearance of slanted eyes. I don't understand why some people find this so offensive. It IS a racial trait. Describing a person of Asian descent as having slanted/narrow eyes is different than calling them a "squint-eye" out of spite or racism. Are we just going to pretend that race doesn't heavily influence appearance and genetic characteristics? Even my grandmother refers to Asians as having slanted eyes, and Caucasians as having rounded. Is she an evil racist too?

-B184.153.119.55 (talk) 21:25, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Kicking the dead horse more.. And wondering - is/was there a "corresponding" racial slur used at any time or place calling Europeans "round-eyed devils"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimw338 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Major resectioning

I have resectioned the whole article for clarity's sake. I hope that this structure is better. I'm sure it needs some tidying up though etc...--Hontogaichiban 13:29, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Err...

It is primarily a cosmetic procedure, though it may increase the horizontal range of the eye[citation needed].

Yeah, really need a citation here. How could the fold increase the eye's horizontal range if it doesn't cover any part of the pupil?

Question...but don't get offended by it....

The article says that the epicanthal fold is seen in young children before the bridge of the nose begins to elevate. Is that why East Asian people have flat noses? (204.168.120.163)

i think it rather works the other way around: because Asian typical dont have a pronounced forhead and/or nose, they are more likely to have Epicanthal fold. (p.s. my parent are both chinese, but damn it work the other way around//// da>.<n~)--142.161.69.222 03:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, although the evolutionary reason for these folds being retained in some populations may be different again.--Hontogaichiban (talk) 03:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

The commonality of epicanthic folds and flat noses is that both are neotenous traits, i. e., East Asians adults simply retain both traits, while they disappear in Europeans as they grow up.

There might be an implication here that epicanthic folds are only retained in populations (or even individuals) which also retain a flat nose, but not the other way round, but I have no idea if both traits are necessarily correlated. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 15:55, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think epicanthal folds can be considered neotenous traits if a huge number of adults retain them (e.g. many East Asians, some Negros, a few Europeans). There might be a correlation between low nose bridges and epicanthal folds, but there are certainly other factors involved. --Supjet (talk) 13:12, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't understand.

The diagrams use arrows pointing to different locations of the face, and the png image shows a girl with no apparent crease in her eye whatsoever. I still have no clue what this mythical "fold" is. This encyclopedia page does work.

I agree. Eventhough I know what an epicanthic fold is it isn't well defined here and definately not through the pictures. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.213.87.141 (talk) 13:28, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

Having read the article over and over (apart from having read descriptions of it in books years ago) and viewed Image:Young_woman_with_dimples.JPG, Image:Brushfield_spots.jpg, and Image:Epicanthal_fold.jpg, well, it's as if the article presented totally opposite descriptions of what an epicanthal fold is. One picture shows what I think is a "double eyelid", the other a "single eyelid", and the last one looks like something in between. So what is an epicanthal fold, really? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.213.182.204 (talk) 08:00, 13 February 2007 (UTC).

Well single/double eyelids have little to do with epicanthic folds besides that in order to have a single eyelid an epicanthic fold must be present but double eyelids appear in eyes both with and without an epicanthic fold. Regardless, an epicanthic fold is something separate from an eyelid crease... It's the little flap of skin that appears in the inner corner of the eye.

The only way out of this mess is comparison photos/diagrams of all three of

In some Asian ethnicities, the presence of an epicanthic fold is associated with a less prominent upper eyelid crease, commonly termed "single eyelids" as opposed to "double eyelids". The two features are distinct; a person may have both epicanthic fold and upper eyelid crease, one or neither.

commons:Image:Epicanthalfold.jpg hardly points out the difference. It should only have color on the different part. And still, need 3 not 2 images. Also the grey line on the similarly named commons:Image:Epicanthal_fold.jpg is weird. Jidanni (talk) 21:55, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

Khoisan?

I'm wondering about the accuracy of this part. This is OR so far, but it looks to me as if Khoisan eyes don't fit the description of the epicanthic fold. They have no upper eyelid crease, but the fold goes the other way, covering the outer corner rather than the inner corner of the eye. See, for instance, the portraits at [2]. 82.25.232.106 12:07, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Restrict vision?

Do epicanthal folds restrict the field of vision at all? One of my schoolmates has extreme epicanthal folds and she seems to have vision problems related to these, while other asians with less pronounced ones do not. One recurring joke is that we can never tell if she's squinting at us.--Pewpewlazers 06:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Bad example

I don't think this picture really shows a good example of an epicanthal fold, and therefore I, perhaps temporarily, moved it here:

File:Brushfield.jpg

epicanthal fold in a child with Down Syndrome.

On the other hand, this might be a better example. Too bad it's not free to use. Mikael Häggström 18:12, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

New picture

I uploaded Image:Epicanthalfold.jpg. If you find it uncorrect, please change it. It's very easy. Just open it in Paint, copy the upper part to the lower and start painting! Mikael Häggström 06:21, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Pejorative Terms

In some parts of the English speaking world, the term "slanted eyes" or "Chinese eyes" is still in colloquial use, though it is widely considered offensive in urban areas.

What, so it's OK in rural areas? Revised this whole para. Rojomoke 11:05, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Ethnic group examples

There aren't sources for most of the ethnic groups listed, but the mention of Turks caught my eye (no pun intended). I don't think I've seen a Turk with any epicanthal fold. Ufwuct (talk) 14:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe it's a common trait among the Turkic people, though not the Turks (people of Turkey), because most people in modern Turkey are Europeans (Anatolians, Greeks, various Balkanites, etc) who were Turkicized, only a minority of them are pure Turkic. Edrigu (talk) 23:08, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Please include photo of a person without epicanthic fold

Please include a photo of a person who does not have an epicanthic fold, for comparison. That would allow the reader to more clearly compare the specific features that make up the fold. As it is, I see general features but still do not understand what the epicanthic fold is. -Pgan002 (talk) 18:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I second this Aurora sword (talk) 15:47, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Yep! As soon as I saw the piccies on the page, I thought this needs a photo of an non-epicanthic eye alongside, and from the same perspective. Sure, you could say everyone knows what typical Western people's eyes look like, but it's not the same thing as having two pictures to look at where you clearly see where the differences lie. Myles325a (talk) 07:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Came here specifically to suggest this also. 87.81.230.195 (talk) 07:36, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Why is the bigger picture the one *without* the epicanthic fold? It's confusing. In fact, all of the pictures are hard to see the fold on. Anyone have better pictures than these? Horus (talk) 03:59, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

What's more, he's smiling, and his facial lines are obscuring his natural eye shape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.3.208.161 (talk) 04:00, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Evolution

These evolutionary theories are not commonly held and are not even referenced. They should be removed. --Dneyder (talk) 03:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Epicanthic Fold

The second photograph (the "Older East Asian Male") should indicate that the subject has East Asian eyes that lack the epicanthic fold. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dneyder (talk • contribs) 14:57, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

be bold and correct it yourself. I don't know if you're right because as it says on my user page, I'm totally blind. Graham87 15:41, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

The difference between an epicanthic fold and that of which can be ascribed to as the " slit " appearance

The majority of Asians do not have the fold , a " slit " is not an epicanthic fold. The second picture was deleted because it was of poor quality - obscure - and the fold wasn't prominent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.98.64.117 (talk) 20:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

What IS it? Unclear

The descriptive text and the existing photos don't help me to understand what an epicanthic eye-fold is in the first place. Maybe the article needs a diagram, or additional contrasting photos? JKeck (talk) 04:06, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Alignment

My addition to the page was removed from the Front page and moved to the Talk page where someone also removed it. I believe it has a right to be in here. This topic and reference is what I wanted to add:

Alignment

The epicanthic fold can give horizontal alignment.

External links

Different alignment gives a different view

There is also a reference to this on Notcot.org: http://www.notcot.org/post/4206/ Michel_sharp (talk) 19:14, 11 januari 2011 (UTC)

Racial epicanthic folds

It looks like this page used to have extensive discussion of epicanthic folds as a result of one's racial/ethnic descent, but that due to controversy it was removed. Unfortunately, the current state of this page (that is, listing only neoteny and medical conditions) implies that having epicanthic folds is always a disease and is always abnormal. Since this is not the case, I added a stub section back in about racial epicanthic folds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zandperl (talk • contribs) 00:32, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

That section was an uncited list of various Mongoloid peoples, so I removed it. It was original research. I will add a quote from Ashley Montagu who claimed it is found on Mongoloid peoples.--Ephert (talk) 00:36, 6 July 2011 (UTC)

Rice....

This article was linked on wikipedia's home page today: Did you know ... "according to controversial Romanian anthropologist Henric Sanielevici, the Chinese eye fold comes from chewing rice?" There's no mention of that (absurd, to me) theory in the article, but it should be here, along with rebuttals made by other anthropologists. Wikipedia is not a place for POV.... Here's what is currently there as a theory: "Although it has become quite a well known fact, that due to the sand storms and particles of sand being in the air, the eyes folded over on them self to protect the eyes from the sandy winds, a conclusive theory that has been debated many times, but seems the only logical way that natural selection has made the Homosapien evolve." This is substandard. 24.27.31.170 (talk) 21:24, 18 March 2012 (UTC) Eric