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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dobitocilor (talk | contribs) at 08:38, 4 April 2012. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Untitled

German name: Temeswarer Banat was what I found, as the spelling has usually been with s rather than sch, even though it is pronounced as the latter (Hungarian orthographic influence, I guess). I don't know if we want to bother giving all the various German forms of Temeswar on this page, since people can click on the main Temeswar article. For those who are interested: note that a literal translation of "Banat of Temeswar" would be "Banat von Temeswar", but more likely would be "Banat Temeswar", similar to "die Bundesrepublik Jugoslawien" (in German you would never say "die Bundesrepublik von Jugoslawien"). In any case, it should be more clear than all this, since German was probably the first if not the second language of the Habsburg empire.


Westermanns Atlas zur Weltgeschichte (1963) uses "Temesvar" to refer to the city throughout the book. It uses "Banat Temesvar" on the map "Hungary's Reconstruction after the Turkish Wars". It uses Temesvar (Timişoara) on "Europe after the First World War (1918-1937)". I will check my copy of Atlas zur Geschichte der deutschen Ostsiedlung (1958) next week to see the terminology used there. Olessi 21:49, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I wouldn't worry too much about Temesvar/Temeswar, lots of words loaned into German originally keep their "v" (Vojvodina) but then change to a more native spelling over time (Wojwodina), while others stay "v" permanently (e.g., all Latin words!). But about "Temesvarer Banat", it definitely sounds likely - I just did a quick Google search, and what I found could be referring to the area of the Banat near Temeswar. So in conclusion I would say that if they call it "das Banat Temesvar" in old books then we should probably call it "das Banat Temeswar", just as we call the 12th-16th century Kingdom of Ireland "the Kingdom of Ireland", even if it used to be spelled "the Kingdom of Irland" - that is, new spellings are used across the board. Anyway, thanks much for shedding some light - I simply don't have access to those kind of books right now. Adam Mathias 03:45, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have one old German map with name "Temeschwar". One thing is important here: the name of the article should be in German, and what of the 3 German versions of this name we will use is not a such important thing I think. PANONIAN (talk) 17:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

In fact, let just keep the current name that I do not have to change map again. :) PANONIAN (talk) 17:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

the 1774 population data does not have any sources, so should be counted as false. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.131.211.146 (talk) 10:58, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

editing

I edited the page, and I'll try to bring some references in the future. I removed also the population data which seems to be imprecise, and I'll try to look after some. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Joranne Sutt (talk • contribs) 09:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Scope of this article

Koertefa and Dobitocilor, I hope that you are aware that this speaks about an Habsburg province that existed from 1718 to 1778. This is not article about entire history of the Banat region (there is separate article for that). So, it makes sense that we mention what existed immediately before and after this province, but elaboration of entire history of Banat is simply out of scope of this article. PANONIAN 09:13, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

We discussed the same issue here: User_talk:Koertefa#Banat_of_Temeswar Dobitocilor (talk) 09:16, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
User pages are not good place for discussion, so please try to discuss the issue here. Also, regarding the source that mention events in year 1233, that should be either mentioned in history section of Banat article either separate article should be written about medieval province (with confirmation from more sources and with more info of course). PANONIAN 09:19, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think that such articles like this should give a brief overview of the history of the region, even if there is a separate article that discusses these issues in more detail. For example, in the article Republic of Serbia, in the "History" section not only the immediate predecessor of the country, Serbia and Montenegro, is mentioned, but also, for example, prehistorical events, even though there is a separate article about the History of Serbia. Therefore, I do not see any problem with briefly mentioning the history of the area in this article, as well. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 09:29, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There is big difference between articles about Republic of Serbia and Banat of Temeswar. Republic of Serbia is an existing political entity and it is common practice that histories of currently existing political and geographical entities are also including entire history of the geographical area which this entity includes. Contrary to that, former entities existed only in one strictly defined period and therefore their histories could be written only within the limits of that time period. Besides that, if we already have Banat article which elaborating entire history of the region, what is the point of repeating that history here? PANONIAN 09:36, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What about the Kingdom of Croatia (medieval), it is also a former entity, still the article discusses the arrival of Croats and other historical events. It does not just simply point to the Principality of Pannonian Croatia article. And I do not see a problem with giving a very brief (few sentences) description of the past of the region, even if there is a more detailed article about that, since it greatly helps the reader to put the entity into a historical context. Why do you think that it is a problem? KœrteFa {ταλκ} 10:23, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Wait a second: the "the Banat frontier province of the medieval Kingdom of Hungary created in 1233" is nothing else but the Banate of Severin (see the year when first ban of Severin ruled). PANONIAN 11:11, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
And here are further evidences for that: [1], [2]. PANONIAN 11:27, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the preceding history of the area, I now rewrote the sentence and elaborated this history in accordance with following criteria: former political entities that were centered in Banat or had sizable part of their territory located in Banat. PANONIAN 11:30, 3 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I also think that it was the Banate of Severin. KœrteFa {ταλκ} 08:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Speaking of the Banate of Severin, I proposed a page move: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Banate_of_Severin Dobitocilor (talk) 08:34, 4 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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