Talk:PlayStation 3/Archive 11

• Archive 1 (May 2005)
• Archive 2 (May 2005 - July 2005)
• Archive 3 (Jul 2005 - Dec 2005)
• Archive 4 (Dec 2005 - Feb 2006)
• Archive 5 (Feb 2006 - Apr 2006)
• Archive 6 (Apr 2006 - May 2006)

Removed Bad Label from Pricing chart

Someone named it Green Ray? Changing. EDIT Or not. Someone did it for me. Thanks. EDIT- Someone decided to name it green again. Edit - Fixed.

archived

Talk page archived - if I missed an unfinished discussion - sorry.HappyVR 06:55, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

removed region coding

I removed region coding again (see talk section 'Blu ray' archive 6) - the table is wrong - doesn't say if it's for dvd or blu ray and in my opinion - unecessary.?HappyVR 07:04, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

card slots and video output on 20GB version

Made some edits - but wanted to check - the 20GB version has no memory card functionality at all? the 20GB version has no digital video ouput at all (not DVI either) - has anyone heard mention of VGA or similar output - I assume that 20GB buyers will not be limited to 480p?HappyVR 07:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

20GB version has the same AV Multi-Out you find on a PS2, as a result I don't think it can output DVI. HOWEVER, it can still output 1080p, through High Definition component AV cables. new*allusion 15:58, 13 May 2006 (GMT) --

Power supply

There's been a suggestion that the three pin plug socket on ps3 does not necessarily mean the power supply is inside the console itself - can anyone confirm the plug socket is for mains electricity?HappyVR 12:13, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I think that we should just leave it out all together since we don't know either way yet. The 360 has the same power connector as the PS3 appears to have, and as I pointed out- that has an enormous external power supply unit. new*allusion 15:58, 13 May 2006 (GMT)--

However looking closely at the new picture of the rear of the ps3 the socket does say ac in (ie not dc) plus the switch above it says something like 'main(s) power'. Not proof I know but also the weight of the thing (5kg) suggests that the console contains a heavy transformer? In this case I think it's safe to assume that the power supply is internal? (how much do xbox 360 parts weigh - could be useful in deciding.)HappyVR 15:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

I've now read something implying that this is true:

[1] Sony had a real PS3 up and running at E3 and there was no sign of an external PSU. Suggests there is no external power supply unit at all afterall, and on closer inspection the PS3 and 360 do not have the same power input ports either. My mistake. Sorry! new*allusion 20:49, 13 May 2006 (GMT)

And now here too:

[2] new*allusion 21:21, 13 May 2006 (GMT)

It would be better if it is just left out as you cannot tell if its external or internal from a preproduction model. If you look at the pictures Microsoft released at E3 05 the 360 had the same pin socket as is shown on the PS3 now and we all no that the 360 is far from having an internal power supply. Until someone has their hands on a production PS3 we cannot know anything else is guess work. TheEnlightened 15:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

PS3 Controller- Number of simultaneous controllers via Bluetooth

The four LEDs imply that the machine will now only support four controllers via. Bluetooth at any one time. Should we make this explicitly clear in the article. I would also assume that the 3 other Bluetooth frequencies are open for other pieces of hardware, for example- cellphone communication, Bluetooth mice and Bluetooth keyboards. new*allusion 15:58, 13 May 2006 (GMT)

This is probably true but an extra 3 controllers can easily be identified by - say - using led 1 lit plus one of leds 2-4 lit to indicate controller number 5-7. So only having 4 leds doesn't necessarily imply that 4 is the absolute maximum. ? HappyVR 15:47, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Could be true, nice idea! I've also realised the PS3 has no IR port for a remote, so another frequency could be just reserved for that. new*allusion 20:48, 13 May 2006 (GMT)

I'm assuming the eight devices are: PS3, Controller 1, Controller 2, Controller 3, Controller 4, and then any combination of: Headsets, Remotes, etc. Shaun Eccles-Smith 02:35, 14 May 2006 (UTC).

Pic Change

The PS3 is coming out in Black only to start with, so I propose the image be changed to a black PS3 - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.108.204 (talk • contribs)

I agree and according to the consensus [3] [4] the black and final retail PS3 should be used instead the old silver TGS and outdated image. --Ragnarok Addict 14:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Then get an image of the final product that can be used under the appropriate license. If you find a nice photo, consider asking the copyright holder for permission to use it. There are a lot of people who would have had a chance to take such a picture, so it shouldn't be too difficult. What you shouldn't do is start another edit war. --James 01:09, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Not only that, but this actually isn't an accurate picture, because it is of the prototype from last year -- the new one is much larger, fatter, and has vents all over. Anyways, you can find some clean, hi-res images of the console here, from Sony's press center:

http://www.scee.presscentre.com/imagelibrary/default.asp?SubjectID=1530

(btw, I've probably formatted my comment wrong, and I apologize, I just have no idea how to use wikipedia's markup language... ;)) --209.221.98.5 14:59, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

UK Price

Do we have a reference for the UK price? It seems higher than I would expect and I didn't think that the UK price had been announced yet. As far as I can tell, £425 is just an estimated price that some retailers are putting their pre-orders at. TimTim 13:32, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Whatever it is, it's way too high for me (along with just about every other working person in the UK.) I think i'll just stick with my PSP. After all, it's the PSP that gets all the fresh GTAs now. -Msc44 21:21, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Wired Controller?

Someone added information stating that the 20GB version will have wired controllers:
"In addition, this version will ship with a wired controller, whereas the 60GB version will ship with a wireless controller, in videos available for free on the web sony spokes people say that the wireless controller is available with both the 20GB and 60GB versions."
I've seen nothing about the PS3 even having wired controllers, other than the USB connection on the wireless ones. Can anyone clarify or show a source? -th1rt3en 02:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Remove that paragraph. The PS3 controller is totally wireless with the exception of a USB port on the top- this port allows for both wired play and for charging. There will be no "wired" version. Daniel Davis 02:27, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I know where the contributor got the misleading info. It is only coming from one website that is claiming it. [5] Many websites are debunking the rumor. [6] --Who What Where Nguyen Why 03:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Component 1080p?

Is this confirmed? I don't know if 1080p can be output through the component cable. Jack Zhang 04:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

'Criticism' Section

"Parents would first handedly choose to give their child the 'Wii' mainly because it is cheaper and would have mainly child games. Hardcore gamers would majorily choose either the '360' and/or the 'PS3' because of the games that are expected to be released onto it. Right now, it seems as if those gamers will go with '360.'"

This seems ridiculously POV to me. first off, most of the wii games that have been shown off so far are made for teens and adults. bringing up the 'kiddie' game issue is blatant speculation. second, saying that hardcore gamers would mostly be interested in the 360 and PS3 is biased. I'm a hardcore gamer, and I plan on purchasing a Wii. I know plenty of Xbox or PS2 owners who feel the same way as well. if this is a quote, it needs to be marked as such, and if it's just speculation it needs to be fixed. I apologize for sounding so abrupt, it's just that this kind of thing is popping up everywhere... (Last Man Standing 19:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC))

It's been removed twice. :) If it reappears, feel fry to kill it again. Henry^Flower 19:43, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the section - named 'criticism' - just to clarify - without referening to its content straight away - is there any place for a 'criticism' section in this or any other article under Wikpedia guidlines - and if so what parts need keeping/deleting/editing.HappyVR 20:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Criticism is fine to have in an article, as long as it keeps NPOV and is written in a formal article style. This section does neither of these things. It either needs to be reworded, or deleted. CNash 23:44, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what all of the above is about, but I just checked this article to see if there was a criticism section, and am surprised there isn't. During E3 and since, gaming sites have been flooded with criticisms of the PS3, its high price tag and the abysmal attitude of the Sony execs behind it. See here, here, here, and so on. -VJ 03:26, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

(User:Infernix). Yes, but it has been all over Gamespot forums. This 360Wii boycott has become apparent in thousands of users and people at E3. If you don't believe me, I suggest you head there and see for yourself. Whatever, the person who wrote this is saying, it is most definitely true. At best, it needs to be reworded. But isn't opinions what criticism is all about? :S

Not your opinions. Opinions published in reputable sources. Henry^Flower 10:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

"Opinionated" remarks removed. So the article stays Yes?

No. A criticism section needs to provided sources. "fans felt let down"- which fans? How do you know? "The lack of titles has already been a concern"- who is concerned? How do you know? Henry^Flower 11:10, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The entire section is POV and extremly biased. It adds nothing to the article, and only fuels flame wars. As stated by Flower, it needs to be re-written with much less bias, and reputable sources and research if it is to be used. Havok (T/C/c) 12:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

(User: Infernix) If that's your opinion on it, so be it. Just don't delete facts because you dislike what they say. We are providing people with information here, if any encyclopedia doesn't contain TRUE information then what's the point in having one? Here's the link to the criticism anyways. The E3 Forum. This is where I knew of the 360Wii revolution happen. http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_topics.php?board_id=909178334 So now you make the 'Criticism' section.

Wikipedia is about information yes, but not at whatever cost. I would suggest you read What wikipedia is not. "Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of items of information. That something is 100% true does not mean it is suitable for inclusion in an encyclopedia." Havok (T/C/c) 12:44, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

We shouldn't restrict information just because we don't like it. If it's a fact it should be for the world to know at their own will. We are not the tools of the government or anything else. Information is the only thing Wikipedia is good at. Let it be there for people to see.

Per WP:WEASEL and WP:RS, we can include some editorial statements and opinion, as long as they're NPOV and published by reputable sources. I've written a section which is a decent start to that (though I think it's a touch too conservative... the Ars Technica article is a fair bit more pessemistic about the ICT flag than I put it, though it's a bit difficult to prognosticate about what will happen in a very NPOV way. On the other hand, it would take almost no effort for movie studios to turn on ICT for a given movie since the technical bits are already designed and implemented. Also, even if it's POV, the movie industry has never been terribly responsive to customer's needs or desires) --Interiot 16:08, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for inserting what seems to me at least to be a neutral and well written criticism section. I don't think Ken Kutaragi (and friends) 'attitude/bullshit problems' nor 'stealing from nintendo' accusation is relevant here but there may be other things that people may want to addHappyVR 19:36, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Wondering if the possible uselessness of the cheaper version could be a possibility for inclusion in criticism - though not proven in this case yet there are numerous examples in the past of manufacturers producing a cheaper model which in many cases needed upgrading/was eventually discontinued - non neutral/cynical point of view would be to say the cheap version is there to make the console appear cheaper when in fact once the neccessary upgrades have been bought (larger hdd, tv with hi-def component input (vs. relatively cheap computer monitor with HDMI compatable DVI)) the version ends up costing more...Just wondering.HappyVR 21:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

The Controller

I notice that there was a minor edit scuffle between 65.2.82.173 and Larsinio about the inclusion of a sentence about the controller in the criticism section. I have re-written that part in a way that I hope will be ameanable to both parties. TimTim 16:20, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I have removed this section, it is extremly POV. The fact that Atari created this concept back in the 70s isn't talked about, or that Microsoft created a controller with the same properties with Logitech in the 90s. Sony didn't copy Nintendo, the controllers arn't even remotly the same deal; the PS3 controller is more reminiscent the nunchaku addon for the Wii remote. Havok (T/C/c) 23:26, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Gosh, I did try to keep it as NPOV as possible (while still acknowledging the point of that section of criticism), but I'm quite happy for it not to be there. To be honest I'm not convinced of the value of any of the criticism section. TimTim 10:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk Page vandalism

I've just reverted due to someone deleting almost all of the talk page, including archives. Sorry if your more recent edits got deleted - I will try and add them back in. TimTim 11:14, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Lost comments re-instated! TimTim 11:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Great, thank you. Havok (T/C/c) 12:34, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

PS3 image

I'm not sure how to change image but there is a much better image of the black PS3 with the real controller next to it (the non-boomerang one). The one currently displayed is terrible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.156.85.204 (talk • contribs) .

It is a problem with the Wikipedia Fair use guidelines. We can't use a Fair use image (like the black with the controller) if there is a free one (like the current) which has only little modifications when compared with the Fair use one. Please don't use the black image, we had had this article locked for around 10 days due an edit war because of the image. -- ReyBrujo 02:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Retail and Pricing POV

There is a load of blatant POV added by an Anon in this section, which I would normally revert, only it would seem that an editor has since then made some sincere additions to the section, and I don't want to delete those - this is why I've done an edit rather than a straight revert. Could 70.181.29.153 please keep their 'price comparison' and opinion pieces to their blog or forum posts! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tomisaac (talk • contribs) 11:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC).

Online services (PNP)

The wording in this section is somewhat deceiving. It gives the impression that the basic online service will include online gameplay. During Sony's E3 press conference, the list of Basic Services that they displayed in their presentation did *NOT* include online play. Because of the contradictory evidence, any comments as to whether or not online play will be free should be considered speculation and omitted from the article until a formal statement of the pricing and service structure is released. 131.107.0.77 18:04, 17 May 2006 (UTC)Dennis

Why things were left out

The Blog by QJ.net has more details on Linux on the PS3 (the link is already in ps3 article). But is also gives a link to the actual interview with Kawanishi. (It's in Japaneese so use BabelFish to translate). In the interview it tells why things like HDMIx2, GigabitEthernetx3, etc. were left out, and alot of other usefull information. I'm not sure if any of this can/should be added to the PS3 article? What do you think? Jdm64 17:07, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I forgot to note that also in the article it stated that the PS3 might still be able to output to 2 screens: one using and an anoaog connector and one using the HDMI. It would be kind of like a graphic card with a VGA and DVI connector that can run to screens. This should be noted in the article. Jdm64 18:17, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Backward compatibility

The current article contains the line "Most of the games that stood out from the pack as exceptional Playstation and Playstation 2 games obviously did not adhere to a performance restraining checklist based on Sony's Technical Requirements Criteria." The word "obviously" really doesn't belong in there. Aside from that, a citation is needed for the strong "most of." I'd suggest changing it to "Several popular games for the Playstation and Playstation 2, including [examples], did not adhere to Sony's Technical Requirements Criteria, which included constraints on performance such as [examples]." --LostLeviathan 19:16, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I note from http://www.ps3freaks.com/news/ps3-not-really-100%25-backward-compatible.php that "TRC (Technical Requirements Criteria), also known as TCRs by Microsoft and Nintendo, are a significant portion of the certification requirements needed to get approval to release a title on a given console system." This is from the page quoted in the article - however taking this as read this means/suggests that for a title to be released (ie with the sony hologram etc) it must pass the TRC - this is one of the reasons I have removed the section half of the section 'backwards compatability'. The other being that it states unproved info. as factHappyVR 19:26, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, there are plenty of games out there with Sony's seal that don't meet the TRCs. I am putting the stuff back, with (hopefully) a little more balance. If it still doesn't work, feel free to take it out again. I just feel that it's important. Dancter 21:22, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

Well as I see it, "fully backwards compatible" and "all games that adhered to Sony's Technical Requirements Checklist should be playable" are contradictory! I would say that fully means Everything, so it actually isn't total backwards compatible. It should read somthing like: The PS3 will be backwards compatible with every PS1 and PS2 game that met Sony's Technical Requirements Checklist, which is almost all games that can be bought at a retail store. Or somthing to that effect. Jdm64 20:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

The article reads 'Sony has claimed' and 'according to sony' which are good enough disclaimers for me - No doubt it would be simple for sony to publish a list of games produced which did not conform to their TRC - I have assumed that sony has some control over what games were published. Assuming Sony's backwards compatability mechanism works then I think the section is correct as it stands. However it does seem that the article bsically says the same thing twice.HappyVR 20:34, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

I removed the "full backwards compatiblity" and changed it to just backwards compatiblity. I thought it was kind of redundunt and awkward with full. Jdm64 04:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

criticism

I removed paragraph from 'criticism' section concerning hi def tv take up - it just didn't seem relevant enough - however perhaps a section pointing out the additional costs of buting a suitable monitor might be relevant.. If people want this I can add it.

Also I was wondering if adding criticism of the external design is suitable (or fair) - that being that sony seems to have re-used the PS2 'chassis' and added a curved top to it - rather than generating something new - doubt anyone will agree to any comments regarding the aesthetic quality of the design - either positive or negative??HappyVR 17:34, 19 May 2006 (UTC)