Talk:My Lai massacre

The Part about "College Dropout"

As veteran who served there after being drafted out of law school, I would note that it is essentially meaningless to say Calley was a college dropout. That suggests that graduating from college was somehow essential to serve as a junior officer or to know how to do the right thing. I would also note that I never saw, or heard, of any similar atrocity during my time in that war; this is a crucial point because critics of the war used the massacre to suggest such events were typical. In other words, they used the tragedy as an ideological hammer to pursue their own agendas. Anyhow, it would be futile for an actual veteran to try to edit the article, which -- like most such articles -- are written by nonveterans pursuing their own goals.

Picture your mother, sister, wife or daughter

As of June 2010, this derelict article -about one of the most important events in American military history- says absolutely nothing [SFA] about the sexual crimes against females that took place before, during, and after the wholesale murder of hundreds of noncombatants.

These were not alleged crimes. Not only were they witnessed, they were recorded by an embedded Department of Defense reporter-photographer team, Jay Roberts and Ron Haeberle. Hundreds of Vietnamese females were defenseless in the grip and trap of the Platoon led by Lt. Calley. In the eyes of these troops, since all the women were soon going to be killed, there was no sense "wasting them". At least one final use should be made of them. Some of the men took this opportunity to become what were euphemistically called =Double Veterans=. This chest ribbon was earned by raping a female and, after releasing inside her, executing her. This particular circumstance was reported to and by Bilton and Sim in "4 Hours at My Lai".

Two days post massacre, when helicopter door gunner, Ron Ridenauer, passed over the remains of the massacre, he spotted the nude body of a woman. "She was spread-eagled, as if on display. She had an 11th Brigade patch fixed between her legs, as if it were some honor. At least three members of Charlie Company were formally charged with rape in connection with the My Lai massacre. Although the Army eventually confirmed in its official findings that systematic rapes had indeed taken place, the charges against the accused men were quietly dropped."

Quotes in this comment are from the 1975 book by Susan Brownmiller: "Against Our Will: Men, Women and Rape." She discusses the sex crimes at My Lai upon pages 103 to 105. Anyone reading this material ought to visit a public library and at least read those pages. --Ed Chilton

This attack was clearly a war crime, perpetrated by a battalion, and covered up by the higher command. Is it too late for war crimes charges to be laid? This did occur more than 20 years after nazi war crimes, which are sill being prosecuted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.197.15.138 (talk) 20:58, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

More about the media

This page is being used for advertising. There is no need to mention Oliver Stone. Stone made one half-way decent film in his life, Platoon. The rest was hyped-up trash. Long ago, film-making for Stone became a cover for other activities, like narcotics and prostitution. He was never serious about making Pinkville. He bilked United Artists out of $6 million for a tiny film set in Thailand. Through five years of bull-shitting, Stone managed to make his name synonymous with My Lai. Considering his comments in the press he doesn't know Peers from Koster. So, let's edit Stone out.

Some of the 2010 movie My Lai Four by the italian producer Gianni Paolucci can be viewed on You Tube. This film looks like trash. If it is to be mentioned on this page then another movie about My Lai, by a Vietnamese film maker, Le Dan, also released last year, should also be mentioned. This is a film romanticization about William Calley, leader of the first platoon into My Lai.

The 2008 British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) documentary, The My Lai Tapes, included a few interesting points. Unfortunately, not many listeners can go to the National Archives to hear all 400 hours of audio tapes of testimony before the Peers Commission. The excerpts played on the BBC program, which ia available on You Tube, arouse interest. But the program seems to leave some doubt that there is really more on the tapes worth hearing. BBC should try again.

Good idea! Until a Hollyood film is actually released let's have no more advertising. Signed: Surfer

This is a talk page about this article, not your personal views on Oliver Stone's directorial efforts. Stick to the subject, anonymous Hellbound Hound (talk) 13:26, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

-Don’t get emotional, bub. Are you the Hollywooder who hi-jacked this entire site for several months a couple of years ago?

Just mentioning known and relevant facts.

The $6 million My Lai movie set is below the Karen village of Mae Aw in the south of Chiang Dao District of Chiang Mai Province in Thailand. Go see for yourself. It isn’t worth $60.

Stone and Willis wanted to play up the old media myth, which the army found convenient, that Calley was responsible for the massacre. If Calley had F. Lee Bailey on his side he wouldn’t have spent a day in the brig.

Stone and Willis wanted to portray Peers as a hero for exposing My Lai and then losing his career as a result. Utter nonsense. Who put them up to that? The CIA called My Lai. Peers, a long-time CIA man with the pacification program in South Vietnam, was sent in to hide that. The Peers Commission was a joke. Like the Warren Commission. Anybody can tell you that. Peers was never persecuted or ruined and he did not lose his career. Only the division commander, Gen. Koster, lost his career. His office was suspected in the massacre and he was damned for trying to “cover-up”. But Stone and Willis don’t want to say that.

Stone and Willis should be investigated. Their buddies too.

Don’t delete this comment. Don’t call it a personal attack. Or a racial slur. Or whatever. Don’t try to defend or advertise the baddies by attacking an honest Joe.

Signed: The Man on the Street (If you read, you know.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beginthebeguine (talk • contribs) 11:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

No. Why would you ask such a ridiculous question?Hellbound Hound (talk) 13:22, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Now who's getting emotional? This all reads like your POV, but if you've got reliable sources, don't be lazy -- insert them into the article.Hellbound Hound (talk) 13:55, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

-Do not vandalize my post again.

My comment above is correct. It is common knowledge. If it isn’t on this site’s main page, that’s because no one is taking the page seriously. Indeed, there are people advertising themselves and their buddies. There are people selling pictures . . .

If you want to know about My Lai, go to a library. Go to newspaper archives. Go to television archives. Listen to the My Lai tapes. Don’t go by Wikipedia. Nobody in journalism or academia relies on Wikipedia. And you won’t learn a thing from Hollywood.

If you want to know something about Stone, go see his “film set” in Thailand, as I suggested. Or read his crap for the past six years about his Pinkville “project”. A lot of it is still on the Internet. Or look at his films.

Signed: The Man on the Street — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beginthebeguine2 (talk • contribs) 12:57, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

First of all, I didn't vandalize your post. I responded to your comments.

Secondly, anyone can edit a Wikipedia article. If what you write is correct, simply insert the information into the article along with the citations. Is this too complicated for you to understand?Hellbound Hound (talk) 09:12, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation

The note for the pron says "At the time of the original revelations of the massacre, Mỹ Lai was pronounced like the English words "my lay".[this pronunciation is not included] Later, the pronunciation "me lie" became commonly used." Are there sources for any of this? 67.164.156.42 (talk) 06:42, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Alphabetical Order

I don't know what the standard is, but wouldn't common sense dictate that the names of the Commanders, which all include their rank, be ordered by heirarchy rather than alphabetical order of their surnames? WookMuff (talk) 04:31, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Undoing malicious hacking by Anna Frodesiak

Who is Anna Frodesiak?

Whoever it is just hacked about 100 lines from the My Lai talk page.

Anna Frodesiak is another obnoxious hacker who claims to be working as an editor for Wikipedia. Anybody can be an editor for Wikipedia. Many so-called Wikipedia editors have obvious conflicts of interests and very dubious motives. They vandalize sites and claim Wikipedia guidelines as an excuse. Anybody can do that. It fools no one.

Anna Frodesiak is probably just another crazy idiot. But there could be personal reasons for hacking the site as well. Of course, some hackers claiming to work for Wikipedia are actually employed by third parties to watch and hack sites. That could be the case here. Anna Frodesiak could be another Hollywooder. That seems most likely. A couple of years ago a Hollywooder deleted 90% of the My Lai talk page and locked up the entire site for several months. (“Just dotting i’s and crossing t’s.”)

There are countless websites for Anna Frodesiak but none offers a single biographical detail. He/She is a shadowy figure. His/Her home page says absolutely nothing. There is only a photo of James Wales, founder of Wikipedia. It is unlikely that Anna Frodesiak is James Wales.

Hackers claiming to work for Wikipedia and to have the support and encouragement of Wikipedia have been taken to court and sent to jail.

The comments that Anna Frodesiak hacked are entirely valid and belong in any discussion about My Lai and the media. After all, My Lai was as much about the media as it was about a military adventure. The media often distorted and misrepresented the facts. It still does. Hollywood and Wikipedia are part of the media.

People who live in glass houses should not throw stones. The public should demand - and Wikipedia should require - full transparency from all of its editors. Anna Frodesiak cannot survive transparency. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Godhctaw (talk • contribs) 05:26, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

I removed it because it had nothing to do with improvement of the article. It attacked Oliver Stone, and was soapboxing. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 05:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)