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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 96.238.26.136 (talk) at 01:54, 17 May 2013. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Former good articleZoroastrianism was one of the Philosophy and religion good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
May 7, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
June 16, 2006Good article nomineeListed
May 6, 2009Good article reassessmentDelisted
August 11, 2009Peer reviewReviewed
Current status: Delisted good article

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Influence on Hinduism and Buddhism?

from the article: "Zoroastrian ideas led to a formal religion bearing his name by about the 6th century BCE and have influenced other later religions including Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity and Islam"

Isn't there also evidence (alluded to in the article by the linguistic comparisons with Hindu texts) that Zorastrianism has influenced Hinduism (and therefore Buddhism because Buddhism was influenced by Hinduism). — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobinReborn (talk • contribs) 12:49, 10 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

a date is wrong

Zoroastrianism originated in the 16th century BC, not 6th century. I can cite, if need be (Fisher, Mary P. Living Religions. 8th Ed. blahblahblah. p. 235. Print.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.70.13 (talk) 00:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'm a reader and copy editor, not an expert on this topic but I take the following from the article: "Zoroastrianism emerged out of a common prehistoric Indo-Iranian religious system dating back to the early 2nd millennium BCE." (that would be later than the1500s BCE though) and then a line later (new subsection) "Although older, Zoroastrianism only enters recorded history in the mid-5th century BCE." Neither of these sentences if at odds with a 6th century BCE origin in the lead nor with your 16th century BCE, depending on terminology. Can you provide the actual text from Fisher's book? I think that would help clear this up but I can't find a copy easily. Thanks. Jojalozzo 02:03, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
sure thing: "...the prophet Zarasthustra... may have lived some time between 1900 and 1500 BCE in Central Asia. The Greeks in the time of Plato mentioned him as an ancient prophet." not a certainty, but still far more accurate than 6th century. Also, quick googling led to a BBC page in which the dates given are "1200-1500". Let me know if you need more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.70.13 (talk) 03:15, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
1900-1500 is a wide range. Maybe we should just clarify the 6th century date to refer to recorded history. What do you think? Jojalozzo 04:06, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's infuriating when you're trying to explain the ways in which Zoroastrianism may have influenced Judaism and they point to wikipedia, saying that Zoroastrianism didn't exist until the 6th century BCE. That's what prompted my coming here; that, and a lot of websites quote wikipedia as saying it was created in the 6th century. Clarification is probably best. Shame that Alexander destroyed most of their texts and we can't find something more concrete.::: — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.11.70.13 (talk) 04:28, 2 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article gives two different dates for the beginning of Zoroastrianism (6th Century B.C. and 1200-1500 B.C.). It can't be both. Regardless, The article also says that it influenced Judaism, but it couldn't, because Judaism predates the earliest date given by centuries.72.74.136.49 (talk) 22:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Basic beliefs

"He is said to be the one uncreated Creator to whom all worship is ultimately directed." [1]

There are several problems with this entry.

1)The link to the source leads to an Encylopedia Iranica article titled "ZOROASTRIANISM i. HISTORICAL REVIEW." Not "Zoroastrianism: Holy text, beliefs and practices."

2)This is presented as a quote and nowhere in the sourced article does that sentence appear. The word "uncreated" is only used once in the entire article. This is the sentence it appears in. "It was opposed to the dualistic theology that held Ohrmazd and Ahriman to be primordial, uncreated spirits."

3)If you read the entire paragraph it atributes the concept of Ohrmazd and Ahriman being primordial, uncreated spirits to Manicheism and Zurvanism. Both are derivative of Zoroastrianism. But niether are Zoroastrianism even though they both could be included in Mazdaism with Zoroastrianism. They are both seperate and distinct works outside of Zoroastrianism.

4)Ahura Mazda is more properly described as always existing. Always existing and uncreated can be viewed as being synonymous. But there is a very subtle difference that is very important to understanding the differences between Ahura Mazda, Spenta Mainyu and Angra Mainyu. Ahura Mazda is the always existing creator. He created the primorial spirit Spenta Mainyu to which a twin arose in opposition to the creation. That twin is the uncreated primodial spirit Angra Mainyu. This is evidenced in part in the AHUNAVAITI GATHA 30, 3 & 4 with the twin primorial spirits creation of "life and not life." That opposition carries all the way through the creation begining with Spenta Mainyu(created)and Angra Mainyu (uncreated). So to portray Ahura Mazda as being uncreated only sets the stage for confusion in trying to understand the nonexistential nature of Angra Mainyu. That confusion always leads to the misunderstaning that Zoroastrianism is dualistic. Ahura Mazda exists above and beyond both good and evil as their Wise Lord. So it is therefore truly monotheistic. The supreme being is niether good nor evil as in other religions. In Zoroastrianism the supreme being is Wisdom.

I wanted to let you know there is a problem with this part. I am now begining a search for a link to support Ahura Mazda being always existing to correct that problem.

MagusAmathion (talk) 17:36, 22 February 2013 (UTC) Magus Amathion[reply]

I have been able to find this to support Ahura Mazda always existing.

Moral Extracts From Zoroastrian Books For The Use Of Teachers In Schools by Jivanji Jamsehdji Modi B.A., PhD

At the bottom of page 25 of 122. The third sentence in "(A PRAYER TO THE DEITY)" says, "may there be praise for the name of Ahura Mazda, who has always existed, exists, and will always exist."

On pages 28 - 29 of 122 there is a list of Ahura Mazda's names, powers and attributes. "1. Self existing."

MagusAmathion (talk) 22:03, 23 February 2013 (UTC)Magus Amathion[reply]

Removed line from intro

I just took out this line again from the intro: Before the Bronze Age people worshipped many deities within a confusing, sometimes conflicting complex of mythologies.. First off, the article on the Bronze Age is very general, and not Iran (or Persia, if you will) specific. Worshiping many deities still existed a long time after the arrival of Zoroaster: Christianity became the Roman Empire's state religion in 380 - well into the Iron Age. Second, besides the fact that "many deities" are still worshiped today (i.e., Hinduism, Shinto), the word "confusing" is an obvious biased word against polytheistic religions. --Soetermans. T / C 17:19, 25 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 2 March 2013

Please remove the following with blank as they are at odds with current theories and established facts: "Whether Cyrus II was a Zoroastrian is subject to debate. It did, however, influence him to the extent that it became the non-imposing religion of his empire, and its beliefs later allowed Cyrus to free the Jews and allow them to return to Judea when the emperor took Babylon in 539 BCE."

I will begin with established facts and briefly include that no Zoroastrian belief includes Judea or the Jews. It is quite a bizarre comment given that it is widely-held among scholars and historians (and even the wikipedia page for "Zoroastrianism") that Zoroastrianism pre-dates Judaism.

Furthermore, it is widely believed and reported in outlets such as BBC's "Engineering an Empire: Persia", that Cyrus the Great freed the Jews so that they could act as a buffer state between Persia and Egypt. Darius's Canal (present-day Suez Canal) was also constructed by the Persian Empire for the very same purpose.

The page once again makes a false claim stating: "Almost nothing is known of the status of Zoroastrianism under the Seleucids and Parthians, who ruled over Persia following Alexander the Great's invasion in 330 BCE. " No citation is provided and from my own previous research & knowledge on the subject, I knew that to be incorrect as Magistanes (high-ranking Parthian officials/ Zoroastrian Priests) during the Parthian Empire were and are of great significance due to the rivalry between the Parthian Empire and the Roman Empire and the major role religion had between them. Steven Collins, in the book "The Missing Years of the Life of Christ" argues that Jesus Christ actually played a role in the great power politics which occurred between the empires of Parthia and Rome.

I also shouldn't leave out that there are extensive information regarding Zoroastrianism in the Parthian Empire and that the "Wise Men" who selected Jesus upon his birth and presented him with 3 gifts were Zoroastrian and one of their burial sites is believed to be in Orumieh, Iran where an Assyrian Church now lies (Fox News has a report on it that is accessible on youtube.) Quite contrary to the claim that "almost nothing is known of the status of Zoroastrianism under the Seleucids and Parthians."

The claims sound ridiculous and the overall Wikipedia page regarding "Zoroastrianism" is extremely murky.

The next claim: "It was also during the later Achaemenid era that many of the divinities and divine concepts of proto-Indo-Iranian religion(s) were incorporated in Zoroastrianism, in particular those to whom the days of the month of the Zoroastrian calendar are dedicated." is also in dire need of citation.

Thank You.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by KBadie (talk • contribs) 2 March 2013


The article isn't locked, so you are free to edit however you see fit (Wikipedia's WP:BOLD policy). I do urge you however to first read the guidelines, they contain vital information on editing. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. Thanks, and happy editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soetermans (talk • contribs) 2 March 2013
It looks like a few things went wrong with this request, but I have done ahead and  Done this as a good-faith challenge to uncited text. Sorry it took so long. —KuyaBriBriTalk 16:19, 26 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ahura Mazda & Angra Mainyu

From the article: "In Zoroastrianism, the creator Ahura Mazda is all good, and no evil originates from him."

According to the Avestic Creation, Ormuzd first created the Kingdom of Light. The translation of the second verse is as follows: "I cast my shadow, Angra Mainyu, who is all death." Angra Mainyu is Ormuzds creation, and evil therefore originates from him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.246.2.81 (talk) 23:12, 4 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 19 March 2013

Currently 2nd sentence of the "Terminology" sub-heading reads as follows "The first surviving reference to Zoroaster in Engish", spelling mistake in word "Engish", should be "English". I hope this helps. 121.99.48.167 (talk) 20:15, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Thank you for pointing it out. Marek.69 talk 20:27, 19 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request on 22 March 2013

I think the following statement is incorrect. "In the eastern part of ancient Persia over a thousand years BCE a religious philosopher called Zoroaster simplified the pantheon of early Iranian gods[1] into two opposing forces: Ahura Mazda (Illuminating Wisdom) and Angra Mainyu (Destructive Spirit) which were in conflict." I request that it should read as follows. In the eastern part of ancient Persia over a thousand years BCE a religious philosopher called Zoroaster simplified the pantheon of early Iranian gods[1] into two opposing forces: spenta mainyu (Holy spirit) and Angre Mainyu (Destructive Spirit) which were in conflict."

references below are from the "gathas" or divine songs of Zarathushtra. = [2]Ha 30 para 3 para 4 para 5 There are two opposing forces = their names are "spenta mainyu" and "angre mainyu" para 10 says "understand law of happiness and misery which ahura mazda has ordained" "age-long pain for the wicked sinful persons and advantages for the righteous person which lead to happiness" [3] Ha 29 para 4 "ahura mazda himself is the judge (of good and evil) So let happen unto us as He himself desires." the gathas (divine songs of zarathustra) clearly state that there is one god = ahura mazda = [4] ha 31 para 8 Ever since I have held thee (O Ahura Mazda) in ( my) eye I have always regarded Thee O Ahura Mazda as the first of all, as worthy of worship with pure thought as the father of Vohu61 Mana (good mind) as the real origin of truth (and) as the lord over (all) actions of this world."

there are two spirits in this world = spenta mainyu and angre mainyu In christianity there is holy spirit and the devil (or satan)(or shaitaan). Spenta mainyu or holy spirit guides a person Angre mainyu or (evil spirit) (sound is like "angry spirit") deceives you. Ahura mazda is judge of good and evil. Man has a choice. If he listens to spenta mainyu he will have good thoughts, speak good words and do good deeds and he will be happy and prosperous in this life and at the end of life he will go to garothman heaven (abode of songs). If he listens to angre mainyu he will be the opposite and he will suffer. The references are clear in the "gathas".

Demographics

I have seen several articles one by the New York Times claiming that there are Zoroastrians in Afghanistan. However no information about this Zoroastrian population seems to be available, just statistics which often vary. Does anyone have any more specific and detailed information about the Zoroastrians in Afghanistan. Ten thousand is a considerable number of Zoroastrians if there are any in Afghanistan but due to the fact I have only seen one or two statistics saying that there were Zoroastrians in the country I am skeptical that there actually are any in Afghanistan. Please clarify as to whether this skepticism is justified or not.

Sarosh mehta (talk) 12:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I can't understand a word of that. Could you just clarify your reasoning?--Launchballer 16:52, 6 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: Reasoning is not clear - I am not confident on what grounds this needs to be changed. Mdann52 (talk) 10:07, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism#Basic_beliefs
  2. ^ http://www.zoroaster.com/Gatha/Ahunavada/gatha%2030.htm
  3. ^ http://www.zoroaster.com/Gatha/Ahunavada/gatha%2029.htm
  4. ^ http://www.zoroaster.com/Gatha/Ahunavada/gatha%2031.htm
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