Talk:Dayton, Ohio

Template:OhioSA

this Dayton, OH article is more about the Dayton region

By Wikipedia standards, wouldn't most of the material in this article serve the Wikipedia community better if it were in a separate article titled "Dayton, OH Metropolitan Area" or "Miami Valley OH" or at least segmented within this article?DjKinDayton (talk) 16:53, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Dayton metropolitan area and Miami Valley articles exist. Relevant material can be repeated in each or cross-referenced from each. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:45, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Culture | Religion

Areas for Improvement

Statistics for the different religions could be added. See http://www.census.gov/prod/www/religion.htm for potential sources like http://www.thearda.com/mapsReports/reports/counties/39113_2000.asp. This web site appears to aggregated material from http://www.asarb.org/ DjKinDayton (talk) 19:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Discussion of content and notability

Paganism predates the Monotheistic religions and is practiced fervently in the Dayton area, therefore it deserves mentioning.

When I first started editing this section a couple of years ago, it was basically an advertisement for a Protestant religion. Now it still has some of those same characteristics but is more encyclopedic. The US gov doesn't collect info on religious affiliation, but it does consistently use data from several sources I can't remember now. If you want to delete references to what you consider 'non-notable' religions, please justify the 'non-notable' label statistically. DjKinDayton (talk) 17:52, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

See WP:N for the notability justification. Notability is one of the pillars. The label doesn't need to be justified, the notability needs to justified through reliable sourcing. -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:05, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe the website links and end-note citation adequately justify the material. Per WP:N "On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a topic can have its own article." ... "These notability guidelines only outline how suitable a topic is for its own article or list. They do not directly limit the content of an article or list." The article here is Dayton, OH, a notable city. The topic is religion, a notable topic (but one not normally entertained on most Wikipedia articles about cities). While everything in an article must be substantiated, it does not necessarily need to be considered notable or about 50% of the Dayton OH article would be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DjKinDayton (talk • contribs) 19:18, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe WP:N still applies -- or at least WP:RS and WP:V and WP:OR still apply. -- JHunterJ (talk) 19:38, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I believe the material is properly cited by the embedded links and end-notes. DjKinDayton (talk) 19:59, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

I agree with JHunter notability is an issue. How significant is the Pagan Alliance to the culture of Dayton (i.e. adherents & visibility in the community)? Not every faith or belief should be noted in a city article, of which there may be hundreds depending on the size of a city...--Chimino (talk) 20:14, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. You'd be hard-pressed to find other city articles with information about non-notable congregations. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 20:58, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. I also stand beside JHunter and Ohnoitsjamie on this issue. I honestly don't even see the need for a region section in this aricle at all. It is not notable enough to be included. What makes Dayton different from any other similar city concerning it's religous affiliations? I don't see the notability. Texas141 (talk) 22:19, 3 December 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. ... with Texas141. If no one has the time to look at the statistical data on the websites above, let's drop the whole section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DjKinDayton (talk • contribs) 02:38, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Deletion dispute

I've restored the section for now, but taken out the non-notable stuff. It's not clear why one might imagine that the Dayton Area Rugby Club or Dayton Bombers or NCR Country Club or Pipestone Golf Course or various public schools to be notable, but not the various Dayton churches that have Wikipedia articles. Regarding whether or not this is done in other articles on cities, see Kent, Ohio#Religion - a Featured Article. I do agree that the non-notable stuff should be removed, which is why I took that out. However, if Wikipedia has an article on it, then one must assume the topic is notable - and if you really think that Sacred Heart Church (Dayton, Ohio) (for example) isn't notable, then take it to AfD. Just because DjKinDayton thinks it's really important to mention paganism, that's no reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:36, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Believe it or not, I agree with Jayjg. If our section on religion has the same quality as the one for Kent Oh, I'm all for it. But what we have I consider to be banal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DjKinDayton (talk • contribs)

"Banal" wasn't the excuse you used for deleting the whole section. And nothing in this article "has the same quality as the one for Kent Oh" - by that standard the entire article should be deleted. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:54, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Well, it's been removed again by an anon IP, but I have to say I agree with the reasoning. Featured articles of cities should be our standard here; most do not have a religion section in their articles, but if they do, it discusses how religious institutions affected the cities culture or are notable on a national or global scale (see Minneapolis). For now, I believe a generic listing of local places of worship does the article a disservice.--Chimino (talk) 19:21, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

A "disservice"? Seriously? The article lists the religious institutions in Dayton that have Wikipedia articles, which is obviously of "service" to the reader. It's no different than the "Public schools" or "Private schools" sections, that give random lists of a dozen of the 70 private and public schools in Dayton, or the table of fairly random and barely notable minor-league teams like the Dayton Dragons, or the aforementioned Dayton Area Rugby Club, Dayton Bombers, NCR Country Club, Pipestone Golf Course. Golf courses! And we're certainly not going to remove the section because a Single Purpose Account has a bee in his/her bonnet because he/she can't mention paganism. DjKinDayton, if you want this article to mention paganism in Dayton, then write an article about it. Jayjg ^(talk) 19:48, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Sports, parks, and recreation are all acceptable topics in city articles (see Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline), which would certainly include professional minor-league teams such as the Dayton Dragons, and yes, even local golf courses! Religion is acceptable as well, although the guideline shows the subject usually being listed under "Demographics" instead of "arts and culture", though I feel that placement isn't as important as content. For content, a good example to follow here would be the format used in Atlanta's article. Many religious faiths are listed with membership numbers, membership trends, church names, or other facts supporting its significance in the area. The key though is to include reliable sources that support that significance. A link to the Dayton Pagan Alliance's web page, for example, may not be considered reliable enough on its own. GoneIn60 (talk) 10:51, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Metro population

The reference currently used in the article for the 2010 census bureau MSA population is here: This reference is the official 2010 United States Census Bureau information for the population of the Dayton Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA). The reference that you are referring to here: http://www.census.gov/population/www/cen2010/cph-t/CPH-T-5.pdf Consists of Delineations which are estimates ONLY for statistical purposes and are NOT the same as the official United States Census information that is published every 10 years found as this reference: For the purposes of Wikipedia, estimates are generally not used unless referenced as an estimate with the official information provided first. Please see WP:CONPOL for more information. Also, if further dispute is to be discussed, please discuss it here before reverting properly referenced material. This talk page is an open forum for disputes of this kind. Thank you. Texas141 (talk) 18:07, 30 July 2013 (UTC)