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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 86.31.131.239 (talk) at 19:34, 30 September 2013 (→War Chief, synthesis, and over-quoting). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Fair use image removal

Disputes not withstanding, the indiscriminate use of fair use images in list articles such as this one is not supported. For the supporting policy, see WP:NFCC. For supporting guideline, see Wikipedia:NFC#Non-free_image_use_in_list_articles. See similar discussion at Talk:Supporting_Harry_Potter_characters#Overuse_of_fair_use_images and Talk:List_of_James_Bond_henchmen_in_Die_Another_Day#Fair_use_image_removal (and observe that fair use images remain removed or tightly limited on those two articles). --Hammersoft (talk) 17:48, 22 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I will reluctantly agree that the current interpretation of the "minimal use" requirement restricts the usage of fair use images in articles like this. However, I really wish that there had been an attempt to discuss which images were most appropriate to keep, instead of a blanket removal of all of them.
Unfortunately, due to the nature of Doctor Who, in most circumstances there are no "cast shots" of multiple villains, companions, and so forth. It might be possible to find a BBC-created montage from something like Justin Richards' Monsters and Villains and other reference books; would a scan from a source like that be acceptable?
I do think that some of the images used in this article can be justified. The guideline says, "Consider restricting such uses to major characters and elements or those that cannot be described easily in text, as agreed to by editor consensus." The Abzorbaloff, for example, is not easily described (although the text attempts to do so, and contains [IMO] sufficient "critical commentary" about the appearance of the creature to justify the use of Image:2008-07-12 Dr.Who 03.jpg, or a screenshot from the episode. (Image:2008-07-12 Dr.Who 03.jpg was uploaded by someone who thought, erroneously, that a photograph taken at a Doctor Who exhibition was free enough for Commons' purposes; turns out that it's not, and it's been tagged for removal, so I suppose we could use Image:Loveandmonsters.jpg and/or Image:Absorb1.jpg with as much justification.
Based on which images are a) discussed with "critical commentary" in the text, and b) are unusual enough to be difficult to describe in text, I suggest that the following images be restored to the article:
That provides a selection of images from the new and classic Doctor Who series, and reliable sources exist describing the makeup or CGI techniques used to create each character, which could be provided for the critical commentary required by the NFCC. I hope that this proposal can be seen in the spirit of compromise in which it was intended. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:47, 24 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That other one... that was never seen...

In The Five Doctors, the Second Doctor mentions a female villain, I think it started with a 'V', to the Brigadier, then mentiones that he hasn't heard of her because the encounter hasn't happened yet.

Later, much later, the Sixth Doctor mentions this character as well.

I cannot remember the name, but I'm almost certain it starts with a 'V' and is referred to as a female. She may not have an appearance, but has been referred to as "a real villain" by the Sixth Doctor, and deserves a stub of mention here.

Can anyone recall who that was?

(For the record, it's my theory that it was her hand that picked up the Master's Ring at the end of Last of the Time Lords, just because it would be more amusing than it being The Rani like many other people have surmised.) 96.225.212.89 (talk) 05:34, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

She's the Terrible Zodin (sp?). DonQuixote (talk) 06:13, 29 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The image File:The Next Doctor.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

  • That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --12:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Good reference page

[1] Could be of interest?Hrcolyer (talk) 12:34, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criteria for inclusion in this list

What are the criteria for inclusion in this list? The header describes it as "a list of villains from the long-running British science fiction television series Doctor Who".

Most of the entries are from the TV series, as per header, but there are several from novels (e.g. Eve), comics (e.g Pied Piper), and audio adventures (e.g. Sebastian Grayle, Headhunter).

My initial thought is that they don't belong in this list, given its description. 86.7.30.217 (talk) 19:05, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Also there are some from the spin-offs, like Torchwood. I would be willing to change the heading to reflect that the list includes villains from spin-off materials. 101090ABC (talk) 19:11, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The article is already pretty long. I'd favour creating a "Spin-off" and/or "related works" list, rather than extending this one. Allowing novels, comics etc. into this list is inviting a slide into inclusion of every "fan fiction" villain that's ever been created. 86.7.30.217 (talk) 08:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Splitting works also. However, I don't think that letting novels etc. into this list is inviting fan fiction, because Wikipedia's standards state that no such material is important. 101090ABC (talk) 18:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Accuracy

Not meaning to nitpick, but the section on Sutekh is quite fundamentally wrong. Sutekh was imprisoned on Earth, not on Mars.[1] I haven't checked any of the other entries. Poglad (talk) 11:00, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramids_of_Mars

It's been corrected. DonQuixote (talk) 11:41, 29 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hacked Spoilers

Viewing this page on mobile results in a giant black screen popping up spoiling the season finale. I can't find it in the edit code, so it must be some type of inject through secondary means. Can someone with more knowledge on Wikipedia fix this and maybe lock the pages? 173.62.183.163 (talk) 05:29, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, that's bad. You should bring it up at the wp:Village Pump (technical). These are the people that can fix this. CSB radio (talk) 07:43, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

War Chief, synthesis, and over-quoting

Just like to point out that citing one source that says one thing, citing another source that says another thing and putting them together within the context of a single character, as is the case here, is synthesis. That is to say, quoting the War Games novelisation, which mentions the War Chief, and quoting the Colony in Space novelisation, which mentions the Master, and then juxtaposing them under the War Chief to lead the reader to the conclusion that they are the same character is original research. We need a reliable source to say that that's what's going on here in the novelisations. What we can do, however, is summarise each novelization in such a way as to retain what the texts imply without leading the reader to a conclusion, such as the summary of Tymewrm: Exodus. Also, there is excessive quoting of the source materials as if to prove through interpretation of the text (original research) that the connection should be emphasized (with the corresponding personal emphasis of key words and phrases).

Bottom line: the way that it's presented now is original research that favours one POV. (Note that the editor of the new material removed the bit about FASA mentioning that the Master and the War Chief were allies [2]...which, incidentally needed a cn tag.)

Also, see talk:Master (Doctor Who) for previous discussions. DonQuixote (talk) 15:32, 18 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That's a, eh, creative way of interpreting things. The Colony in Space novelisation recaps what is The War Games. And leading directly into that is the two Time Lords talking about the Doctor and The Master and the younger one asking the older to tell him more about the Doctor and the Master. You only consider it synthesis, because you don't like what it says. It is also properly sourced, unlike more than 90% of this article. And certainly unlike the FASA piece, which was someone just stating something, without a WP:RS(for which see WP:BURDEN. And indeed, the only part of the Timewyrm:Exodus piece (the paragraph that that you seem to hold up as the shining example) that was sourced, was sourced by me. Yup, the rest has no WP:RS, has never had a RS, yet you regard that as being the thing to aim for. It is only the last sentence that was given a RS, and that was by me.

There is nothing that I added that was unsourced. In addition, every source explicitly mentions The War Chief and/or The War Games. What you don't like is that the source material also happens to make it clear what became of the War Chief after the War Games, and to remove that bit would destroy the source material. I have not made any pronouncements, I have merely provided relevant RS(which mention the War Chief and/or the War Games), removed unsourced statements(and haven't even scratched the surface of those unsourced statements). Yet this upsets you to the point that you felt the need to break the WP:3RR, and have now started this totally unnecessary discussion. 41.135.172.46 (talk) 06:17, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the straw man. If I didn't like what it says, as you claim, then I would have removed the Tymewrm bit as well. Look, unless the two novelisations actually point out the connection, we can't put those two things together to lead the reader. We can, however, put the bits in their respective articles and let the reader come to his or her own conclusion...like what you added in the Master (Doctor Who article (which I also didn't touch because it was fine the way it is). As I have said many times before, no one is saying that the Master cannot be the War Chief, and in fact we can describe those texts that do say that. The point is that we can't cross over into original research, which is what you're doing when you put those two sources together in an act of synthesis. Please try to understand, I (and the other people who have commented at talk:Master (Doctor Who)) have nothing against the War Chief being the Master or the Monk being the Master or anyone else being the Master, it's just that we as editors can't put our own interpretations (original research) into the articles. Citing Tymewrm here is fine, citing The War Games here is fine. Citing Colony in Space in the Master's article is fine but citing it here is crossing over into original research. DonQuixote (talk) 15:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That was not a straw man. You are not even addressing the actual issues. The Timewyrm part was clearly the fact that you were happy to leave in a totally unsourced section, and even mentioned it as being how the whole article should be...while at the same time repeatedly removing(breaking the WP:3RR in the process) information that did indeed have valid WP:RS. You praise unsourced material, but start an edit war over sourced material. And again, you and you alone seem to feel that this some sort of WP:SYNTHESIS and/or WP:OR. However, every WP:RS explicitly refers to the War Chief and/or the War Games. The Colony in Space novelisation can be cited here as it specifically refers to the events of the War Games, and both gives background information on, as well as tells what happened to the Time Lord who had organised the War Games. Which is exactly what an article(well a few paragraphs in an article on the War Chief should do). And it is all properly sourced. Unlike the Timewyrm bit, where the only proper source was added by yours truly. So, it is not original research. And it is not synthesis. It is a set of WP:RS that both give background information on, as well telling the next move(s) of, the War Chief. I have not stated "the War Chief is the Master", because the sources I added do not say that in those exact words. They do however refer to the War Chief and the War Games, and give information on both. With proper RS. If someone wants to properly source the Legions Of Death, then please go ahead, and state exactly what it says there, word-for-word. And the Wikipedia reader can decide for him/herself, from whatever RS there are. And none of it is OR or SYNTHESIS. 41.135.42.99 (talk) 06:55, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"The Timewyrm part was clearly the fact that you were happy to leave in a totally unsourced section...."
"...the only part of the Timewyrm:Exodus piece (the paragraph that that you seem to hold up as the shining example) that was sourced, was sourced by me...."
So which is it? You're claiming that I "like" it because it's unsourced and then go on to take credit for sourcing it. I will go on record as saying that I don't object to it because of the fact that you sourced it and didn't include any original research. That's it. That's the point. If you can properly cite reliable sources and refrain from original research, then no one will object. And I will go on record as saying that I think that the Master and the War Chief have been portrayed as the same character. However, we must, again, cite reliable sources and refrain from original research. So you're claim that I simply object to the edit because I dislike the idea is bogus and a straw man.
Again, the novelisations imply that they are the same character but don't explicitly say it. The fact that we have to infer it makes it original research. Putting the two texts together to emphasise the inference is synthesis.
Again, inference is original research and putting the texts together to emphasise the inference is synthesis. That's the issue. It has nothing to do with whether or not I like the idea.
And your point about the novelisations providing background is fine, as long as it's in regard to the respective War Games and Colony in Space articles. However, putting it here by placing the texts together to emphasise the inference is synthesis. DonQuixote (talk) 14:31, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Here are a couple of examples of similar synthesis and original research: Rory Williams and talk:Rise of the Cybermen#Cracks between the parallel universes. Yeah, and I have to guiltily admit that that last bit of original research was by me and it was rightly pointed out to be an inference and rightly removed from the article as well as the Doomsday article. So, again, no one is against your idea (that is, no one is trying to be antagonistic), it's just that we're trying to keep the articles from crossing over into original research (referee's trying to keep things from going out-of-bounds). And the fact that the rest of this article needs to be cleaned up means that the rest of this article needs to be cleaned up. It doesn't help to add more original research that needs to be cleaned up. DonQuixote (talk) 14:57, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I fail to see what you are even saying about the Timewyrm part now. As I have already stated:

You said that you think the Timewyrm part is the best post-War Games part of the section. However, up until very recently, the Timewyrm section was completely unsourced and was complete OR(as is 90% of the List of Doctor Who villains article as a whole!) The only sourced section of the Timewyrm paragraph was added by me, not you DonQuixote...me. Are you now taking credit for adding sources?....And then you complain and start an edit war over the only section in the entire article that has been meticulously sourced? That is what I find strange, and that is what I have now stated again.

Now, as far as "inference" or anything similar...that is what you claim. Again the sections are WP:RS that refer to the War Chief and the War Games, and give deeper biographical detail as to the character of the War Chief(you know the subject of the section). Everything that was added was entirely relevant, and was reliably sourced. Now, does it infer that the War Chief is the Master? Indeed it does, but that is neither OR nor SYNTHESIS. It is the RS that speaks of the War Chief. As you say, as the sources do not say "The War Chief is the Master", that has not been added to the article. Neither was the War Chief section merged into the Master (Doctor Who) article. However, what is clear is that these reliably sourced bits come from official, verifiable sources, and they are all absolutely relevant. I don't really see why this discussion even exists. As I stated, if someone finds a WP:RS that states something to the contrary, and it is properly sourced then it must be added to the article. However, your problem is with properly sourced material that is about the War Chief and the War Games. And it is neither OR nor SYNTHESIS. 41.135.42.99 (talk) 16:57, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please read carefully.
You: "The only sourced section of the Timewyrm paragraph was added by me, not you DonQuixote...me. Are you now taking credit for adding sources?"
Me: "I don't object to it because of the fact that you sourced it and didn't include any original research."
Note that I acknowledged your contribution. The point was that you sourced it and didn't include any original research. I was complimenting you on doing it correctly.
As for inference (dictionary.reference.com): "something that is inferred"...and infer: "to hint; imply; suggest". Given those definitions, the Colony in Space novelization is inferring that the Master in that adventure is the War Chief in The War Games--it does not explicitly say it. That's the point. Again, you can reflect the inferences in the source material, but you can't combine those inferences together to claim as fact, or even imply, something that they just infer, that's synthesis. From WP:SYNTHESIS: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources." Given that and the above definitions of inference and infer, it is definitely synthesis. You are combining material from multiple sources (War Games novelisation and Colony in Space novelisation) to imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. This is why it's synthesis. Please read this paragraph carefully. DonQuixote (talk) 17:31, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No. I gave WP:RS that all refer to the War Chief and/or the War Games. This expands the biographical detail of the War Chief. The reason I used the sources I did, and not any others, is that these are the ones that do just that. End of story. Anything else is entirely your problem. 41.135.42.129 (talk) 18:42, 20 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That may have been your intention, but the point is that your edit still matches the definition of synthesis, as outlined above. Original research is not desired on Wikipedia. As it stands now, the best thing to do is to just edit it out and find better sources which explicitly mention the connection without the need for synthesis or original research. A case in point, the FASA roleplaying game explicitly mentions that the Monk was a prior incarnation of the Master, and as such is mentioned in the Doctor Who Roleplaying Game article. Similarly, any other explicit statements made by any reliable source can be added to the appropriate articles. DonQuixote (talk) 17:03, 21 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No. it is not OR. And it is not SYNTHESIS. All it is is a collection of RS, all of which specifically refer to the War Chief and/or the War Games, and add biographical detail about the War Chief. What you object to is the content of this biographical detail of the War Chief. Whatever you may claim, everything I added is a RS, everything I added specifically refers to the War Chief and/or the War Games, and everything I added gives additional biographical detail to the character of the War Chief. You are only claiming SYNTHESIS and OR because of what the Reliably Sourced information says about the War Chief. As I stated, if someone can properly source something like the Legions of Death FASA Game, then please go ahead immediately. I don't have a copy of the module, so i can not. And if someone does just that, I will most definitely not claim OR or SYNTHESIS, like you are doing with these reliably sourced pieces of information about the War Chief. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.116.93 (talk) 07:08, 22 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, you can't say that it's not synthesis anymore since I used the explicit definition at WP:SYNTHESIS to show that it is synthesis. The Colony in Space novelisation does not mention the War Chief, however it does provide background information on the Master...which is appropriate for the Master article. Saying that it provides background information for the War Chief is synthesis. As for the FASA module, look, I'm trying to keep both sides from crossing over into original research. I might be getting the various anonymous dynamic IPs mixed up, but some IPs are saying that the Master=the War Chief, which is ok if reliable sources are cited and there's no original research involved, and some other IPs are saying that the Master=the Monk, which is also ok if reliable sources are cited and there's no original research. What's happening is both sides are complaining when I point out any original research that they are involved in. Please, understand what original research is and understand what synthesis is. DonQuixote (talk) 15:49, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but your argument is nonexistent. You said "synthesis", so that means it is "synthesis"? You need to explain how it is synthesis. Not merely say "I said synthesis". And, for the umpteenth time, all of those are WP:RS. They all mention The War Chief and/or The War Games. Therefore all they are are RS that add additional biographical detail to the War Chief. Please understand that if you claim something, you need to explain why that is relevant. Which you have failed to do. Let me say it for the millionth time....Everything I added was a WP:RS that directly references the War Chief and/or the War Games. That is not SYNTHESIS. That is not OR. The only one who has a problem is you, because you dislike what the RS actually state(and again 99% of this article is completely unsourced, yet you take no issue with any of that...). So, it is not SYNTHESIS, it RS that directly relates to the actual topic of the section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.229.135 (talk) 06:47, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seriously, you need to work on your reading comprehension. From WP:SYNTHESIS: "Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. If one reliable source says A, and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C that is not mentioned by either of the sources." And from above: "You are combining material from multiple sources (War Games novelisation and Colony in Space novelisation) to imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. This is why it's synthesis." That's a direct one-to-one mapping between the definition and your edit. You are not paying attention.
As for the other 99%, most of them summarise the primary source without original research or synthesis. Any original research and synthesis have been edited out. DonQuixote (talk) 10:51, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, you need to work on your reading comprehension, as well as your manners. Let's say this for the millionth time... Every source I added explicitly mentions the War Chief and/or the War Games. And this is a section about the War Chief. Wow! Fancy that. That's not synthesis, that's just trying to improve the article. The only reason you are claiming synthesis, is because of the content of those WP:RS that explicitly mention the War Chief and/or the War Games. Did I at any point ever state or imply anything that is not directly mentioned in the sources? No. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.229.135 (talk) 13:39, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Er...no it does not. The Colony in Space novelisation does not mention the War Chief. It alludes to the War Games, and as I have pointed out above, it makes an inference that the Master is the War Chief. Please listen closely. This part right here, where source B implies alludes to the events of source A and thus implies that the Master is the War Chief is synthesis. Neither of those sources explicitly states that the War Chief is the Master. So, yes, you are implying something "that is not directly mentioned in the sources"...thus it's synthesis. DonQuixote (talk) 14:51, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It mentions the War Games, and adds information on the Time Lord who organised the War Games. That's not SYNTHESIS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.132.229.135 (talk) 16:08, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Have you even read WP:SYNTHESIS yet? You have taken wildly disparate items and synthesised them into a theory about the War Chief and the Master. The canonicity of the books. radio plays etc is always in doubt. In any event reading the books is not considered a WP:RS as they are the original item. What you need are secondary sources to back up your theory. In thiks case that would be interviews with the authors stating that they were alluding "On Purpose" to the Master as they wrote about the War Chief. Lastly DO NOT remove the OR tag until this discussion is closed. You should consider yourself lucky that DQ has compromised by using it as I to (and others I suspect) would continue to remove the whole section outright since it has no business being here. BTW thre are blogs, facebook and even a DE Wikia where you can post this theory as an alternative. MarnetteD | Talk 18:40, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hang on. Didn't DonQuixote just state that all the sections here give an overview of the story they're in? But now those stories themselves don't count? Should this entire article(from A to Z) be deleted then? And how can the original themselves not be a [[WP:RS}]? because then we would have to remove most of the articles about audios, novels etc. as well as all the characters contained therein. And are you seriously bringing up the canonicity argument? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.46.222 (talk) 05:34, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The primary sources (episodes, novelisations, etc.) can be summarised. "Reading the book", that is, interpreting the allusions and implications requires "secondary sources to back up your theory" otherwise it's original research. It's your interpretation of the text, and others, like myself, might share it, but we're not acknowledged experts in the field and thus, in regards to being editors of Wikipedia, it's non-notable. We can, however, publish our analyses in a secondary source, such as Doctor Who Magazine, and let other editors cite our work (otherwise it can be construed as a conflict of interest). DonQuixote (talk) 13:59, 28 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You are yet to actually answer the questions I have posed to you. And your own arguments are self-contradictory.

1)There are virtually no sources whatsoever for the article at large(your "summaries" are unsourced. For that matter it is most unusual that you criticise text which is quoted verbatim from the sources, and praise "summaries". Surely the "summaries" are the OR, and the quoted text is properly sourced)?)

2)There is nothing whatsoever in the sources I provided that is in any way OR. I have placed text(all explicitly referring to the War Chief and/or the War Games) from WP:RS into a section on the War Chief. In fact, this is the only section in the entire article that actually meets the WP:RS standards. Your problem is what these Reliably Sourced make clear. I have not stated anything other than what is stated verbatim in the text, all with RS. Your proposed "solution" to this nonexistent "problem" is to use OR, and summarise it! There is no conflict of interest. All we have here are Reliable Sourced sections of text that are relevant to the section of the article. That is it. That is exactly what Malcolm Hulke and Terrance Dicks(the men who created the character of the War Chief) stated, word-for-word(except the Timewyrm:Exodus bit which still needs stronger sourcing). Yet you have some problem with that, and your solution is to use OR, and rewrite it, removing RS, and using OR to rephrase it to your personal tastes. Clearly, you have a problem with the one and only section on this article that is RS, simply because of what those RS actually state. Lastly, what do you mean by "[my] interpretation of the text"? That is the text, the text written by Malcolm Hulke and/or Terrance Dicks. I did not write it. The men who wrote the War Games did. They selected those words very carefully, being professional writers/authors, and Dicks was Script Editor for the television series, and Editor for the Target Books line. There is nothing whatsoever in those Reliably Sourced sections that is "mine". It is the words of the creators, who are indeed acknowledged experts in the field. And as you admit, you are not...197.87.8.92 (talk) 06:11, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Please cite page and line where the words "War Chief" appear in the Colony in Space novelisation, otherwise, you're implying what the source does not explicitly state. And please exercise a little reading comprehension. I was stating that the only way to get your original research into this article is to publish it in a reliable source so that we can cite you, otherwise it doesn't belong here. DonQuixote (talk) 14:34, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ignoring your attempt at humour that is a personal attack, you have been contradicting yourself over and over, and refusing to read what i have actually posted. Since you persist in trying to make this an endless loop, how about this....On this very discussion page, below this post of mine, post a draft what you believe the section should look like and we can take it from there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.87.8.92 (talk) 18:35, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the acceptable draft...which is the section as it is with only the synthesis and original research edited out:
The War Chief was a renegade Time Lord who assisted a group of alien warriors in the 1969 serial The War Games, which was the last to feature the Second Doctor.
The warriors had been kidnapping soldiers from various wars in Earth's history to play war games on an unknown planet. The War Chief provided the warriors with basic TARDIS-like travel machines, called SIDRATs, which they used to kidnap the human soldiers and travel between era-specific zones they had created, as well as supplying the aliens with hypnotic mind-control devices to gain full control of the human armies.
When the War Chief and the Doctor came face to face, they recognised each other instantly. The Doctor initially feigned compliance in order to gain the alien's trust, but after exhausting any possible way of removing the soldiers himself he reluctantly summoned the Time Lords for help. The alien War Lord discovered the War Chief's plans to betray him and his people, and after cornering him in the SIDRAT hanger as he attempted to flee the Time Lords, he was shot by the War Lord's guards.
The New Adventures novel Timewyrm: Exodus has a further out-of-sequence [16] encounter between the Doctor and the War Chief who had survived his execution by the War Lord's guards, but was left heavily deformed after an aborted regeneration. Using the alias Kriegsleiter (German for War Chief or War Leader) he attempted to alter the history of the Second World War by supplying the Nazi party with weapons and technology. It ends with the War Chief regenerating into an incarnation described as "a young man, tall, dark and satanically handsome",[17] just as his base is destroyed by a nuclear explosion.
No synthesis and no original research. And no, I haven't been contradicting myself since my main point is that the current edit is synthesis, which, if it is to be included here, needs a secondary reliable source to state it explicitly (not you, not me, an acknowledged reliable source). Again, please cite page and line where the words "War Chief" appears in the Colony in Space novelisation otherwise you're implying something that the source does not explicitly state, which by the definition at WP:SYNTHESIS is synthesis. DonQuixote (talk) 19:05, 30 September 2013 (UTC

Now, what is so wrong with the Role Playing game that it had to be deleted from the section? It's exactly what it says in the sourcebook, does something need changing? If so, it can be changed.86.31.131.239 (talk) 19:22, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, i just wanted to point out that i am massively suprised this is all still going on after all this time. Out of curiosity, is this a common thing that happens on wikipedia or quite rare? It really is an insight into human behavior. Hats off to 41 and Don Quixote for managing to do this for well over a year, i gave up after a few weeks.86.31.131.239 (talk) 19:34, 30 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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