Talk:Women's suffrage

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• September 2008-2011

Utah and (dis)enfranchisement

The push to grant Utah women's suffrage was at least partially fueled by the belief that, given the right to vote, Utah women would dispose of polygamy. It was only after Utah women exercised their suffrage rights in favor of polygamy that the U.S. Congress disenfranchised Utah women.

This doesn't seem to make sense. Is it misworded? Should the last sentence say enfranchised, not disenfranchised? I can't read the linked source to determine what was intended 2602:306:CC95:B20:BD47:E9E4:C102:E31 (talk) 21:40, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Disenfranchisement of *everybody*

User:MauriManya insists on including in this list a couple of countries which are not fully democratic, but disenfranchise women and men (more or less) equally. Surely this is missing the point. There are dozens of undemocratic countries in the world, are we going to list them all? – Smyth\^talk 02:26, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong the way it is & has been for some time. It doesn't matter if a country is or isn't seen as democratic, but if the voting rights are still there to be used, even if a small number are able to exercise it. Are there any other sourced nations that are missing? That-Vela-Fella (talk) 08:03, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Smyth insists on remove when this was discussed here Talk:Women's_suffrage#Women's suffrage denied or conditioned - Brunei, and has been in the article enough time. Besides, the table said that women's suffrage (for village elections) was accepted in 1959. In addition, the section says Women's suffrage denied or conditioned, is irrelevant if conditioned to men too. MauriManya (talk) 17:00, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, I missed that section above. Clearly there was no agreement there either. Whether something has been in the article for "enough time" is no argument at all for keeping it.

I would say it is highly relevant whether women's and men's voting rights are restricted in the same way. This entire article is about womens' campaigns to receive equal rights to men. In the countries at issue, they have already succeeded in doing so. Further democratic advances in those places are not a "women's suffrage" issue, they are a general democracy issue. Including those places in this list obscures those places where women are actually still discriminated against, and isn't discrimination against women the entire point of this article? – Smyth\^talk 02:20, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I see where you and maybe a few others might see this, but it's a very small & anomalous part of this article. In time they may all (possibly except the Vatican) be changed when laws to allow full & equal participation come about (S.A. for example would be taken out in 2015 IF the king's promise does happen). So rather than deleting these cases, would the heading be better to say 'restricted' rather than 'denied or conditioned'? Or would the issues with Brunei & even the UAE look better as footnotes? That-Vela-Fella (talk) 19:02, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

I still think that Brunei & UAE should be removed from the list, since they deny suffrage equally to men and women. Yes, this would leave a short list. That should be a good thing! Leave it to an article like Democracy Index to extensively classify voting rights. This article needs to focus on women's suffrage specifically. --Quantum7 21:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, that's the whole point. HiLo48 (talk) 22:00, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Then, should add a footnote to the case of Brunei? Because it is included in the main table. I think it should be clarified. MauriManya (talk) 02:11, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

North Korea is also included in the main table. Their "elections" only have a single candidate, and declining to vote for them will send you to a death camp. What about countries where there are racial restrictions on voting? Your argument would have us add footnoes for them too, since women of the disfavoured race are disenfranchised. This article just isn't the place to start commenting on the many states which are undemocratic for other reasons. The only question it should consider is whether men and women are treated equally. (For that purpose, of course, it can cover both de jure and de facto discrimination.) – Smyth\^talk 02:27, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

It makes sense to list these countries (possibly with footnotes) in the main table, which is a inclusive list of when women achieved some voting right. Brunei and UAE should be dropped from the other table, which is exclusive as it lists countries where some women's rights are restricted relative to men. --Quantum7 08:21, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

I will merge the lists into a combined summary table, with colors to highlight the few countries where women and men are treated differently. I also suggest we remove the column for voting age, since, in the vast majority of cases, this is not sex-specific and merely duplicates the list at voting age. I'll replace it with a general "notes" column in which we can also indicate those places where elections are currently suspended. – Smyth\^talk 03:11, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm fine with the matter it was put into. A bit more info could also be added or taken out when appropriate. I also agreed on the voting age, since another article was done just for that. That-Vela-Fella (talk) 22:53, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

South Australia

A number of editors seem to believe that Aborigines were excluded from voting in South Australia. This is not correct.

It is not the case that only "white" women obtained the right to vote and stand for Parliament in South Australia in 1894/5. In fact the South Australian legislation did not discriminate on racial grounds. South Australia was then a self-governing colony, however in 1901 it was subsumed into the Australian Federation and became a state of Australia. Under Australia's Federal system, some other states and for a time the Federal government had restrictions on Aboriginal voters, but South Australia never did. For more see here.Ozhistory (talk) 03:45, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

US/UK/Australia sections too big

I believe that when nations have their own articles about women's suffrage, the information presented on this overview page should be brief in favour of not excessively duplicating that information, so as to give greater precidence to other nations reflected on this overview page which lack their own articles.

To serve as an example, the nations of Japan/Kuwait/Switzerland all have their own articles and only a brief paragraph on this overview page. I think that is how the US/UK sections should look. There is a problem when the section on nations with their own pages are bigger than the sections on nations which do not.

For example, compare the size of the UK/US sections to the section about Canada, which doesn't yet have its own page. Ranze (talk) 22:37, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

there are two problems here --a very short statement about each country means the reader will never be able to get a world-wide viewpoint, which is the main goal of the article. Second, it gives every flag equal space which means some movements get 10 or 100x more attention proportionate to their female population. I think each country where there is solid infotrmation should get a couple paragraphsRjensen (talk) 23:38, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Agree with the problems related to short statements about each country. Also, the endless listing of tiny places that were "first" to extend suffrage to women tells readers nothing about why it happened there or didn't happen elsewhere. Surely there can be some regional discussions - also, it is missing any reference to organizing activities/actions across Latin America, which had active women's groups in the early 20th century, who gained suffrage in numerous places.Parkwells (talk) 19:54, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Paris Commune

The Paris Commune did NOT grant Women the right to vote. There were many women groups active, but suffrage for women was not an Issue. This sentence should therefore be cancelled (it's strange that it is in anyhow since there is no reference...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antjeschrupp (talk • contribs) 11:29, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Women sufferage effects / developments women sufferage

Hey I found an article on the effect of women sufferage. I'd like to recieve more sources so I may make this small headline, or create a different page if it'll be a large topic.Night-changer (talk) 10:50, 16 June 2014 (UTC)