Talk:Russian mafia

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Depiction of Russian mafia in entertainment was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 13 February 2013 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Russian mafia. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article was nominated for deletion on 2 April 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was speedy keep.

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Nonsense

i am sorry- as much as i like wikipedia, this article is absolute nonsense, i know more then most people do about the russian mob- and i am not trying to brag, it is just a matter of fact, this article is absolute tom foolery, nonsense and quite misleading! if you want to read an accurate book about the russian mafia- any of alexander litvinenko's books will do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.166.104.26 (talk) 04:22, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Then change it and source it. I thought I'd manage to clean and source up the mess it was before but improvements are always welcome. But Litvinenko is quite the contreversial figure, and Wikipedia needs agreeable sources. Nicknackrussian (talk) 20:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Links to Icelandic outvasion

There are 2 sources. One is in Russian. The other specifies that the information in the newspaper article (in the Guardian) about Russian mafia connections are "unsubstantiated", which could not be considered verifiable information. This part of the article should be removed as it is based on rumors being put forth in encyclopedia form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndoe187 (talk • contribs) 17:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've edited this section to improve its tone, which might address some of these issues. The question is not so much whether the matter is substantiated, but that fairly reputable reliable sources (national media such as The Guardian) report on the topic. It's much the same as how a hoax may be non-encyclopedic but the hoax as an event may be covered if discussed in reliable sources. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 03:22, 20 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fan page

This article reads like a fan page. It needs major cleanup to make it more encyclopedic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by UDFy-38135539 (talk • contribs) 09:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Niteshift36 (talk) 18:45, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Russian"

Give me a break. 90% Jewish. Also the Armenians are a separate gang. This article needs serious work-I don't have the time. 72.209.63.226 (talk) 17:10, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Russian" also means "of the former territory of the Russian Empire", "Rossiyskiy". Not only "of the Russian ethnicity". --Methylcarbinol (talk) 12:50, 12 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Most members are of pure Russian descent. I doubt it's 90% Russian Jews, but perhaps that population fits in somewhere. About the Armenians being a seperate gang, you're probably thinking of Armenian Power. Tom US A 20:22, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This page gets better, then worse, then better, then worse again

And right now it's pretty shit to be honest. Not very encyclopedic at all. Needs MAJOR reworking. The majority of the stuff on this page seems to be based on speculation by the writers themselves. Also not a very good understanding displayed of the various ethnic components to the organised crime (Slavic, Caucasian, Jewish, etc.) and no mention at all mentioned of the involvement of organised crime with politics. I'm doing my dessertation on this so I can rework this later, unless someone wanna save me the time. 91.85.169.34 (talk) 17:09, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It looks a lot better now with ethnic backgrounds and different groups within the Russian mafia. I've ehard of their affiliation with politicians, but it's not official to Wikipedia unless you have a WP:Source. Tom US A 20:24, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It has never been good enough to stand( Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:03, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

File:Mogilevich s1.jpg Nominated for Deletion

An image used in this article, File:Mogilevich s1.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Deletion requests January 2012

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Long and detailed infobox — let's consider shrinking it

I noticed that the infobox in the article is extremely long and detailed, and most of the info in it is unsourced. Let's remember that one of the purposes of the infobox is to help the reader find key information at first glance, and should contained just a few info. (WP:IBX). I'll consider erasing the info soon. ComputerJA (talk) 18:18, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly support that. Niteshift36 (talk) 19:54, 30 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. What do you think should be kept? I guess deciding on what to erase would make everything harder. :) ComputerJA (talk) 03:09, 4 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Third Empire

Could the Mafia be considered an empire since its a global influence. The Russian Empire was in green, the Soviet Empire was in red and the Russian Mafia could be called the "Criminal Empire" in which its states are in black. So can its oppression be considered the third regime of Russia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.76.42 (talk) 13:05, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No. General Electric, Boeing and BP Oil have global influence too, but they aren't empires. Niteshift36 (talk) 14:04, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Okay not an empire, but can they be put under certain colors in the case of the mafia its black because they are working in the black market?

Put what in color where? Please be specific. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:21, 9 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I superficially said put the color black for the mafia just as red was for the communist before it and green for imperialist before that as depicted in the portraitist in the articles of the Soviet Empire and the Russian Empire.

Again, be specific. Portraitist? What? Do you mean a map? You're not making sense. Niteshift36 (talk) 12:39, 10 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I mean a map. The nations in pitch black have complete influence of the mafia and the ones in shaded black have partial influence of the mafia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.76.42 (talk) 04:36, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since there are no countries "completely under the influence" of the Russian Mafia, this is a moot discussion. Even russia isn't completely under their influence. Niteshift36 (talk) 13:48, 11 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But they are reports that they are causing a virtual tidal wave of crime. That means they are all over Europe but some places more then others. Particularly in Eastern Europe they are around pretty much every corner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.206.76.42 (talk) 04:37, 12 May 2012 (UTC) Being present and causing crime doesn't equate to "completely under the influence". No, I'm not buying into this. Maybe someone else will. Niteshift36 (talk) 05:19, 12 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Structure and composition

I've cleaned up most of the article, but my work have been all about the Russian Mafia's history and notable groups. I haven't done other important topics about it, like the groups' organizational structure and how they operate. Most of that can be found here and here. My interest has kind of dwindled in the past few days, so I'm probably not gonna get to them. If anyone else is interested, he or she may edit the article to include this kind of stuff. And don't forget to cite sources correctly! =) — Enter Movie (talk) 07:01, 24 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

The Russian mafia has a huge Jewish contingent so I added that to the ethnicity box. 25:15, 12 April 2013 (UST) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.210.0.82 (talk)

In US probably... In Russia it has not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.87.135.143 (talk) 09:59, 29 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Hopeless BS

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm known as a very polite user, but this... text got me) It's simply helpless. Constantly straying away from title and respective term, it is a sorry compilation of various cattle feces uploaded and called "Russian mafia" on the web. As for sources, the U.S. government sources, they are as good as following:

Translated from: Dictionary: Prison, Camp, Blotnoi, Jargon (Speech and Graphic Portraits of Soviet Prisons) Authors-compilers: Dantsik Sergeyevich Baldaev, Vladimir Kuz'mich Belko, and Igor Mikhailovich Isupov. (Occupation of authors unknown.)[1]

Oh, and there's the most hilarious "the Jewish branch of the Russian mafia" in both the article and the sources)))

Fast delete as WP:Synthesis? Ukrained2012 (talk) 03:19, 14 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

NeilN, where are your questions? Ukrained2012 (talk) 10:43, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anticipating further requests, I wanted to make it clear that disattributions and unwarranted, ambiguously worded generalizations are the main, and grave, flaws of the article. These are tagged by me, usually by ^{[clarification needed]} and ^[who?]. Everyone is encouraged to find and fill in more specific and/or appropriate templates. Not mention to fix the article) ... which I believe is doomed under current title and scope anyway. Happy edits, Ukrained2012 (talk) 10:59, 15 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

To start with, please explain what clarifications you require for these:

However, the existence of such groups has been debatable
- The previous sentence lists undoubtfully existing groups of the post-Soviet society) Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Vladimir Lenin attempted to wipe them out after being robbed by a gang of highwaymen
- Please reference or link to one of a whole WP cat of articles on Lenin. And, IMH knowledge, Bolsheviks were initially linient to criminals as "socially related element" , which is stated in many Russian writings and documentaries on org. crime. Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In 2009, FBI agents in Moscow targeted
- "targeted" like how? "Arrested", "investigated", "surveilled", urinated on their doorsteps? I could easily walk past such a weasel word in many articles, but not in this one, with such a controversial, cliche title. Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Within the post-Soviet criminal world there exist a multitude of strong ethnic criminal gangs who often cooperate with each other regardless of ethnic origin
- It is unclear 1) what makes them ethnically strong this way; 2) how is it relevant, unique or notable in a worldwide context? Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like you're asking for more details. The wording is not confusing to general readers.

It is not confusing, it is extremely confusing( As with those "debatable" groups above. Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Also, copied from my talk page, "You'll note that there's no who? in Sicilian Mafia, just alternate names. Like in Shakers. Or French Foreign Legion. Or Ku Klux Klan. Or..." It's a term used by English speakers to describe an organization. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:26, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article neither claims nor nearly proves that some "Russian mafia" is an organization of any noticeable unity or uniformity. As many users noted before, this article is very loose compilation of facts or claims on the very different criminal groups originating from the former Soviet Union. In other words, it is subjectless and mistitled for now. Happy edits, Ukrained2012 (talk) 15:01, 18 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]