Talk:Crucifixion darkness

Dating of the gospels.

The article currently states the date of composition of Matthew as a fact, relying on Harrington. The Gospel of Matthew article, however, carefully following its own source, says most scholars favour 80–90. This is the date and the wording we should use here. (This probably means splitting the sentence in two.) Similarly, the date of Mark's gospel is stated as fact (70) whereas the Gospel of Mark article says "probably around AD 60–70". And it's the same situation with Luke, though the dating of that gospel has even less consensus. StAnselm (talk) 19:58, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

OK, I have reworded for neutrality, using Scholz as a source, though other sources have slight variance of the dates that "most scholars think" the gospels were written. Perhaps we could give a longer bracket (e.g. 80-90 for Matthew). StAnselm (talk) 00:32, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps another solution is available

One wonders what on earth could explain the darkness described in the gospels about the crucifixion and yet seemed to be confirmed by pagan sources as well. The description that it occurred across the entire earth and that passover occurs during the full moon eliminate the possibility of a total solar eclipse in regards to the coverage and amount of time involved. The gospels also describe tombs opening and the earth quaking. Standard explanations for this seem to defy the evidence as well. So what caused it.

One argument is that is never occurred. I offer an alternative. It did occur, hence the reporting of it, and the confirmation by other sources. If a very large asteroid or planetoid passed between the earth and the sun, and the pass was close enough it would not only darken the sun for a period, and depending on it trajectory it could have darkened it for hours. As it passed close to the earth its gravitational distortion of space/time (gravity field) could of disrupted the earths mantle/crust sufficiently to cause tremors and quakes.

Not being a deep investor in such coincidence, then the moments of the crucifixion and the passing of this large mass in space at the same time would appear to be coordinated, requiring much more knowledge of the heavens than we currently even possess. If this argument has weight, then the appearance of this large asteroid would herald just spiritual changes, but would effect the earth physically as well. If this asteroid in fact existed and is the explanation for what happened, being the beginning of a change in our understanding of God, then might it also be the same planet killing Asteroid that will herald the end on its next pass, whenever that may be.(open speculation)

This event may be verifiable should astronomers, astrophysicist, geologist, and climate archeologist know what evidence to look for.

Science and Religion aren't at war with each other, if you simply view science as the explanation of how God works.72.251.170.140 (talk) 19:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Such an asteroid would have to be a miracle in its own right to fit all your requirements considering it would have to pass very near the Earth, be very VERY large, and move very VERY slowly. Anything of that size would have to be still around somewhere - or have been captured by the Earth and ended life as we know it - and there is no evidence today of these events.

However, this Talk page is not a discussion Forum and is thus not really meant for our pet theories.Ckruschke (talk) 19:51, 21 February 2014 (UTC)Ckruschke

I will update the name of the roman historian that wrote,"during the 322nd olympiades in Rome there were many reports of an earthquake and eclipse on the 6th hour in the region of Jerusalem. This is recorded in greek history. I am not home to obtain my notes on the name of the historian that was a non-biblical source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cheekers777 (talk • contribs) 18:54, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

Naturalistic explanations, A further explanation and its Merit

I was advised that to avoid an edit war, I should post my position on this talk page.

It has recently come to my attention a historical fact that seems to have direct relevance to the crucifixion darkness. This fact is that many ancient naturalists seemed to have the opinion based on eyewitness accounts of strange weather phenomena, preceding earthquakes. For two thousand years ancient European and medieval (including islamic) natural philosophers have considered a dry, warm gas, the "pneuma" ( breath, exhalation), escaping from the earth, as precursor and trigger of earthquakes. Also in China an escaping gas or breath (the qi) was considered the cause of earthquake, first in a document from 780 BC. We know today that escaping gas is not causing earthquakes. But it may be that natural phenomena that supported such a pneuma-concept have again and again been observed. The unpolluted environment and the largely absence of distracting artificial stimuli may have allowed the recognition of distinct earthquake precursors, such as described by ancient observers:

1) the sun becomes veiled and has a dim appearance, turns reddish or dark 2) a narrow long stretched cloud becomes visible, like a line drawn by a ruler, 3) earthquakes preceded by a thin streak of cloud stretching over a wide space. 4) earthquakes in the morning sometimes preceded by a still and a strong frost, 5) a surf - line of the air sea is forming (near the horizon).

The described phenomena may be interpreted as a kind of smog forming above the ground prior to an earthquake, a smog exhaled from the ground, which is triggering water condensation, releasing latent heat, changing visibility, temperature, heat conduction and radiation properties. This could perfectly match the phenomenon, which is at the origin of satellite monitored temperature anomalies preceding earthquakes. [1]

Anaxagoras (according to Aristotle [Aristot. Meteor. II. 7, 365 a 14 ff. (Aristotle, 384–322 BC).]), in the 5th century B.C. already assumed that a gaseous ether forces its way through the porous earth and through the contained air from below the earth’s disc thus generating earthquakes. Aristotle based his earthquake concept on this pneumatic mechanism communicated by Anaxagoras. His elaborated ideas have been conserved in his famous book on meteorology [18]. Basically he assumes, that a compressed dry and warm gas, pneuma, escapes from the earth thus producing earthquakes. The same origin has also a sign that according to Aristotle used to precede the earthquake: “In clear weather during the day and shortly after sunset, a narrow long stretched cloud becomes visible, like a line drawn by a ruler, because the pneuma is disappearing. What remains is a kind of surf line of the air-sea”. Aristotle also describes some of the fog’s properties: “Besides the weakening of the sun and the (relative) darkness that comes about without clouds, the calmness and great cold that occasionally occur before earthquakes, that happen in the morning, confirm the cause”. The strange cloud or fog, which appears before the earthquake, and is described by Aristotle, has also received attention during a later historical event and Pliny the Elder explicitly mentions it as one of four possible earthquake precursors [Pliny the Elder, Historia Naturalis, 2:84. (Gaius Plinius Secundus, 23–79 AD)].

There have been a number of eyewitness accounts reporting the same anomaly, such as the one reported in the New Madrid Earthquakes of 1811-12. These quotes are on record in different places, from books to sites dedicated to that earthquake. They report that "The skies turned dark during the earthquakes, so dark that lighted lamps didn’t help.[41] The air smelled bad, and it was hard to breathe. It is speculated that it was smog containing dust particles caused by the eruption of warm water into cold air. [2]

All this is supported by a number of Scientific articles on the subject of Meteorological Phenomena as Earthquake precursors, which the Crucifixion Darkness seems to be one such event. 1) http://geospatialworld.net/Paper/Application/ArticleView.aspx?aid=999 2) http://www.mdpi.com/2076-2615/3/1/274/htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeremias19 (talk • contribs) 00:31, 3 February 2015 (UTC)