User talk:Nimbus10

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nicole Crespo (May 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Jeraphine Gryphon was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nicole Crespo and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also get real-time chat help from experienced editors.

— Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 15:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Hello! Nimbus10, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! — Jeraphine Gryphon (talk) 15:56, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

File permission problem with File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(6)light.jpg

Thanks for uploading File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(6)light.jpg. I noticed that while you provided a valid copyright licensing tag, there is no proof that the creator of the file has agreed to release it under the given license.

If you are the copyright holder for this media entirely yourself but have previously published it elsewhere (especially online), please either

• make a note permitting reuse under the CC-BY-SA or another acceptable free license (see this list) at the site of the original publication; or
• Send an email from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en@wikimedia.org, stating your ownership of the material and your intention to publish it under a free license. You can find a sample permission letter here. If you take this step, add {{OTRS pending}} to the file description page to prevent premature deletion.

If you did not create it entirely yourself, please ask the person who created the file to take one of the two steps listed above, or if the owner of the file has already given their permission to you via email, please forward that email to permissions-en@wikimedia.org.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have provided evidence that their copyright owners have agreed to license their works under the tags you supplied, too. You can find a list of files you have created in your upload log. Files lacking evidence of permission may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. You may wish to read the Wikipedia's image use policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 12:58, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(69.1).jpg.jpeg

A tag has been placed on File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(69.1).jpg.jpeg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted images or text borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 09:13, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Nicole O'donughue (55.1).jpg

A tag has been placed on File:Nicole O'donughue (55.1).jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted images or text borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 09:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(6)light.jpg

A tag has been placed on File:Nicole Crespo O´donoghue(6)light.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section F9 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the image appears to be a blatant copyright infringement. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted images or text borrowed from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be removed without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 09:15, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Response

I responded to your message here: User_talk:Jeraphine_Gryphon#File_permission_problem_with_File:Nicole_Crespo_O.C2.B4donoghue.286.29light.jpg. — Jeraphine Gryphon ^(talk) 09:16, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Your recent edits

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Thank you. --SineBot (talk) 22:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Nicole Crespo (June 22)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by FoCuSandLeArN was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Nicole Crespo and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you need any assistance, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk or on the reviewer's talk page.
• You can also get Wikipedia's Live Help real-time chat help from experienced editors.

FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 23:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Hello! Nimbus10, I noticed your article was declined at Articles for Creation, and that can be disappointing. If you are wondering or curious about why your article submission was declined please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 23:16, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Advice on Draft:Nicole Crespo

This is in reference to your comments on FoCuSandLeArN's talk page. I am an experienced editor of classical music-related articles and have participated in many Articles for Deletion discussions. FoCuSandLeArN suggested that I provide some additional advice for you. I'm going to be very frank with you here. Nicole Crespo does not currently meet the inclusion criteria for an article. There are two ways that those criteria can be met. Either she must have multiple significant coverage in notable publications which are completely independent of the subject. In other words, entire articles about her in either the mainstream or the specialist music press. Mere mentions, artist biographies provided by the artist and printed in programs or concert announcements etc., interviews in in-house publications like that of the British-Spanish Society do not count. Or, she must pass one of the alternative criteria at WP:MUSICBIO. Examples for a classical violinist would be:

1. Holding the First Violin chair in a major symphony orchestra
2. At least two solo recordings with a notable classical music label
3. Multiple reviewed concerts/recitals as the soloist in leading concert halls
4. Winning or placing in a major music competition. Being awarded scholarships and grants for young musicians does not qualify

There is no evidence of any of this in your draft. Asking other editors/reviewers to add what they think is missing is pointless. We cannot add what does not exist. The draft will not be approved until it provides such evidence.

Of course, you also have the option of creating the article yourself without going through the Articles for Creation process. However, if you do, it will be immediately taken to an Articles for Deletion discussion and I can pretty much guarantee that it will be deleted at the end.

I will also say that if this were an article, it would be drastically pruned and copyedited by others to remove the extensive and unencyclopedic promotionalism and puffery.

Finally, please note that while it is necessary to verify claims about the subject, their simple verification does not attest to the subject's meeting the inclusion criteria. You are also confusing "accomplishment" with "notability" (in the sense that it is used on Wikipedia). On Wikipedia, "notability" means "meets the inclusion criteria". Ms. Crespo appears to be a promising young artist. When/if her career develops, she may well meet the criteria. She doesn't now. Voceditenore (talk) 09:40, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for your message and your helpful comments.

In my comments to the editor FoCuSandLeArN I merely was trying to establish that Nicole Crespo, in my opinion had qualified in the rules that I had followed using Wikipedia´s guidelines. Which below I am only trying to demonstrate that having already being a soloist since 2011, in my opinion she does qualify. http://www.bilbaorkestra.com/eng/concierto.php?id=456 (tour with BOS) Bilbao & http://www.eldiariomontanes.es/20110718/cultura/musica/encuentro-musica-academia-programa-20110718.html

By presenting the rules which I followed, I was not being smart only trying to understand the problem. Wikipedia is a daunting experience for anyone and I congratulate you and the other editors on sparing time with your talents.

Criteria for musicians and ensembles (Wikipedia)

rule 9 - This musician (is the 1st prize winner of the major competitin in Spain The Euskadi prize.

rule 4 - http://www.bilbaorkestra.com/eng/concierto.php?id=456 (tour with BOS) Bilbao & http://www.eldiariomontanes.es/20110718/cultura/musica/encuentro-musica-academia-programa-20110718.html

rule 6 - Both Irina Vinogradova (piano)Ofelia Montalván (piano) http://www.aquiconfidencial.es/es/imprimir-noticia.php?IDN=4459 are worldknow musicians and toured in 2011 as an esemble with Nicole Crespo.

And these are just a few to demonstrate a solo career which was not the object of my article in the first place. I don´t want a list of achievements.

Not all solists want discographic fame or nomination to the Oscars which seems to be the main reason for being notable nowadays. In my opinion the person who dedicates to charity and fundraising is more notable than a pop star, of course this is my opinion. Is it not more important in an article to make references and links to museums, acticles,cancer fundraising, instruments, foundations and society´s like the British Spanish society who works to promote internatinal relationships? The majority of people when you study an article in a encyclopedia is to find information, not just on the person. The person is the lead into a world of information. The richness of an enclopedia is the information you can find and understand.

Having read your own interests I hope you can see why I didn´t want this article to be a competition of who has more discs but that of an example of information and access from the experience of a young artist´s study project and career to accomplish culture not discs.

If this is contrary to what Wikipedia wants in its encyclopedia then I have no business presenting an article here or ever. An encyclopedia is always information not notability even in music, arts and culture.

I have redacted a more likeable draft this morning if you would kindly like to review, I would appreciate.

Kind regards Therese10 12:03, 24 June 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nimbus10 (talk • contribs)

• Nimbus10. As you can see, I have copied the response you left on my talk page to here on your talk. Let's please keep the discussion all in the same place. I have your talk page on watch and will see any further responses from you here. I will respond in more detail to your comments above later today. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 12:19, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi Nimbus10. Trust me, I've read the latest version of your draft and the references very carefully and have even looked unsuccessfully for better ones. Re the criteria you mentioned:

9. "Has won or placed in a major music competition." This, this, this, this are major international competitions. The Concurso de Jóvenes Músicos de Euskadi is solely for young students/recent graduates from music schools in Spain's Basque region. It is neither major nor international. In fact, it isn't even a Spanish national competition.

4. "Has received non-trivial coverage in independent reliable sources of an international concert tour, or a national concert tour in at least one sovereign country." No evidence of non-trivial coverage. All you have are two concert announcements in which she is merely mentioned, and it is not even clear that this was a real tour to multiple cities throughout Spain. They appear to be two completely unrelated concerts. She was the soloist in only one of them. In the Comillas one she was one of two violinists.

6. "a musician who has been a reasonably prominent member of two or more independently notable ensembles". The fact that Irina Vinogradova and Ofelia Montalván were the pianists at one concert (and not in a major concert hall) does not constitute a notable or permanent "ensemble". This rule when applied to classical musicians refers to a permanent First Chair in a major symphony orchestra, or a member of a prominent and permanent chamber group, e.g. the Takács Quartet, the Borodin Quartet, the Kronos Quartet, etc.

I know how disappointed you must be, but I'm trying to explain to you how the inclusion guidelines work here. That means that Wikipedia may leave out things you think are important, but we all have to work within those guidelines. Articles for Creation reviewers will only approve drafts which have more than a 50% chance of surviving an Articles for Deletion discussion. To do otherwise would do both you and Ms. Crespo a great disservice. Deletion discussions which end in "delete" are not pleasant for either the subject or the article's creator, particularly so if the creator is acquainted in some way with subject.

The kinds of points I've made here are exactly the points that would be used in a deletion discussion to argue for "delete". If she is as potentially talented as she seems, then she will eventually make a breakthrough to an established international career. You will find major independent publications referring to her as a "virtuoso violinist" and writing about her in depth. Her solo concerts will take place in leading concert halls, and multiple publications will review them. That will be the time for an article. Best wishes, Voceditenore (talk) 15:18, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

violinist

Thank you!

Violinist

Hi Voceditenore Thank you for your time, patience and consideration. Disappointment is for people who expect something.I merely thought I was contributing to something interesting. As a philanthropist and a sponsor of Nicole Crespo´s early career and many more young students worldwide I am surprised that Wikipedia is not what I expected and I was made to believe it is. I would honestly hope none of the projects I support would become a bucket list. Which is what I have seen in the last months of virtuosso violinists, pop stars and actors wikipedia´s pages.The history pages are actually encyclopedic pages but when it comes to live people, wikipedia is an achievement list of personnel information! My views of what an encyclopedic is and what others see are opposite polars. It has been a terrible daunting experience. I am not a computer user person and decided as my companies donate to wikipedia every year I decided to try out the experience. Not favourable at all.

Personnely I thank you again for your time,

Best wishesTherese10 16:04, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

violinist

Voceditenore

As this account will soon be deleted I have re-read your answers to my previous comments and quite honestly to have responded in the tone and attitude you did without knowing exactly the circumstances, I consider it most disrespectful. My editorial skills may not have done justice to Nicole Crespo´s work but to defame a person without knowing or investigating before you made those comments was quite risky. Even as a volunteer editor or an experienced editor of classical music-related articles does not make you a musician or make you a prominent critic of music. Before going so deep to answer I would have done my own private investigation into who Nicole Crespo is in the first place. She doesn´t need a wikipedia page! Because wikipedia has their own guidlines and criteria it doesn´t make them correct. It is of course their page but that still does not give any person to belittle another persons work because it doesn´t meet their guidlines.

"From Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales

Wikipedia is something special. It is like a library or a public park. It is like a temple for the mind. It is a place we can all go to think, to learn, to share our knowledge with others. When I founded Wikipedia, I could have made it into a for-profit company with advertising banners, but I decided to do something different. "

This is what I thought wikipedia was too but it is quite obivious wikipedia is only for famous people.

To claify your comments;

1. The Basque region is THE BASQUE COUNTRY, it is not a part of Spain. (That comment is not taken lightly by the Basques) The competition was NOT a students competition and the competition is international. There are different levels.

2. The Bilbao Symphony Tour was a tour around Spain and Nicole Crespo was the soloist.

3.Do you personnely know. the Takács Quartet, the Borodin Quartet, the Kronos Quartet, etc. Because I do! And I know what I am talking about, not just from editing or reading books but by my actual participation in the actual classical music world. So the rule, when you quote make sure you know what you are talking about.

4. "In the Comillas one she was one of two violinists." WRONG

There were three performers, A Basque SOLOIST, A Russian Soloist AND A CHAMBER GROUP on that tour which took place in the following places Palacio de Festivales de Cantabria y, fuera del Palacio, a great festical of classical music, 23 concerts in total. Three concerts in the Paraninfo del Palacio de la Magdalena de la UIMP, Seminario Mayor de Comillas and three concerts in the Teatro Concha Espina de Torrelavega, a Alfoz de Lloredo, Arnuero, Cabezón de la Sal, Castro Urdiales, Santillana del Mar, Laredo, Los Corrales de Buelna, Marina de Cudeyo (Setién), Potes, Ramales de la Victoria, Reinosa, Renedo de Piélagos, Ruiloba, San Vicente de la Barquera, Santa María de Cayón, Santoña, El Soto Iruz (Santiurde de Toranzo), Vega de Pas y Villapresente.

RegardsNimbus10 (talk) 00:39, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

• Nimbus10, I don't pretend to be a music critic, I am simply an experienced Wikipedia editor in that area. I was giving you an honest assessment of the likelihood of this subject meeting the inclusion criteria at this point with the kinds of references you had provided and the claims you were making. I stand by that assessment. I was also trying to explain to you what happens at an Articles for Deletion discussion and why the Articles for Creation reviewers want to make reasonably sure that an article won't end up there. Saying that a subject doesn't meet the criteria yet is neither "disrespectful" nor "defamation". Nor is it a reflection on their personal worth or accomplishments.

And no, we don't do "private" research to find out who the subject "really is" and then do a personal evaluation of them. It is a core policy of Wikipedia that we do not do this, and it's non-negotiable, especially in biographies of living persons. This is an encyclopedia. We summarize what reliable, published, independent sources have already written about the subject, and we require that there be a significant amount of such coverage. I looked quite carefully for such coverage and was unable to find any. There certainly wasn't any provided by you in the draft. If you can find in-depth reviews of the subject's performances and articles about her (not simply mentioning her name) in the mainstream or specialist music press, then simply add them to the draft and continue working on it.

I also gave you honest advice on how the criteria at MUSICBIO are interpreted in practice and the kinds of supporting evidence that are required for this. I can't do more than that, and I would be doing you a great disservice if I did less than that. You are of course entitled to your negative opinions of Wikipedia, and of me, but I won't be communicating with you any further here as it has obviously become very unproductive. If you want further opinions on your draft and whether the subject meets the inclusion criteria at this time from other editors who are experienced in this area, I suggest you post a message at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Classical Music. Voceditenore (talk) 06:46, 25 June 2015 (UTC)