Talk:2015 Chattanooga shootings

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 2015 Chattanooga shootings article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

This article has not yet been rated on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Crime and Criminal Biography Start‑class Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

Death Start‑class Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has not yet been checked against the criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar and style: not checked Supporting materials: not checked	To fill out this checklist, please add the following code to the template call: \| b1<!--Referencing and citation--> = <yes/no> \| b2<!--Coverage and accuracy --> = <yes/no> \| b3<!--Structure --> = <yes/no> \| b4<!--Grammar and style --> = <yes/no> \| b5<!--Supporting materials --> = <yes/no> assessing the article against each criterion.

Additional information:
/
	This article is not currently associated with a task force. To tag it for one or more task forces, please add the task force codes from the template instructions to the template call.

Please add the quality rating to the {{WikiProject banner shell}} template instead of this project banner. See WP:PIQA for details.

United States Start‑class Mid‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Start	This article has been rated as Start-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Added "See also" section

I added a "See also" section to this article for cross-referencing between similar attacks. I also added this incident to the "See also" section in the Curtis Culwell Center attack article. So let the flurry of editing begin... grifterlake (talk) 20:24, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Was it confirmed that he was islamist? or even muslim? Kinda jumping the gun... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.30.12.130 (talk) 20:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The shooter's name is Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez, so I'd say it's not a case of jumping the gun, although you could say with slightly more accuracy that it is a case of drawing conclusions from the smoking gun before the data from the ballistic and forensic evidence comes back. grifterlake (talk) 20:31, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Terrible source for that piece of information. A Heavy.com article linking to a tweet that "says" CBS identified, but with no actual link to CBS and no actual posts on CBS or other reputable sites. Basically, you've copied from a journalistic equivalent of "a friend of a friend of a friend told me". And from that you've extrapolated what "similar" attacks look like? Don't get me wrong. If this individual is indeed the perpetrator, yeah it would make sense to link to other incidents of homegrown terror attacks, but since we cannot objectively verify the perpetrator at this point in time, you might as well have linked to the Oklahoma City Bombings for a "similar" attack. 2601:14A:100:700:C5B7:EDE7:B41A:28E2 (talk) 20:32, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Correction, CNN just confirmed the name, but the motive cannot be objectively derived from just a name, so you should wait on that. 2601:14A:100:700:C5B7:EDE7:B41A:28E2 (talk) 20:35, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A "[t]errible source"? It was an AP article stating that in addition to being "born in Kuwait", it also states that "A U.S. official says the gunman in the shootings in Tennessee has been identified as 24-year-old Muhammad Youssef Abdulazeez." grifterlake (talk) 20:42, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The AP article wasn't there when you posted your initial conjecture. And as I said, the name may be confirmed, but the motive is not. The only thing we know for sure about the motive is that the target was the military. Anything else at this point, regardless of how likely it may seem, is purely conjecture at this point and not worthy of mention in a wikipedia article until it is confirmed from an official source. 2601:14A:100:700:C5B7:EDE7:B41A:28E2 (talk) 20:51, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How is it "conjecture" to include this incident with other acts of domestic terrorism when officials have already referred to this as an act of domestic terrorism? The probable Muslim/Islamist connection would be "pure conjecture", but it has already been declared to be domestic terrorism. Both the Washington Navy Yard shooting and the Curtis Culwell Center Attack should be restored, and the Oklahoma City bombing should also be added. There is no need for motive to be established for inclusion in a "See also" section that is currently limited to showing other acts of domestic terrorism that have occurred in the United States. grifterlake (talk) 20:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

How is it terrorism exactly if soldiers were targeted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.74.202.58 (talk) 21:05, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Terrorism doesn't exclusively mean targeting civilians. The Beirut Barracks bombing was an act of terrorism, as were the USS Cole attacks and the 9/11 attack on the Pentagon. 2601:14A:100:700:C5B7:EDE7:B41A:28E2 (talk) 21:11, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Care to back that up somehow? Under what definition are you operating? Are you saying Fort Hood was terrorism as well?

It's terrorism because it was perpetrated by an individual or group, not by a nation or people wearing uniforms or other identifying insignia that identifies it with a nation, as required by the Geneva Conventions. grifterlake (talk) 21:13, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

So how come random homicides aren't all called terrorism? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.30.12.130 (talk) 21:14, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Random homicides aren't considered terrorism because they aren't rooted in a political motive, as is terrorism. There are also types, or clades of terrorism. Klan violence is a type of terrorism, but not relevant to the type that is the probable motive we see here. grifterlake (talk) 21:25, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Just so you know, you're completely making up your own definition of 'terrorism' so as to exclude Western terror. There is no remotely defensible definition of 'terrorism' whereby targeting non-civilians would qualify. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.74.202.58 (talk) 21:17, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since you have not included any examples of what you consider to be "Western terror" we may never know what you mean by that. The Basque separatists could be considered examples of "Western terror". The violence between Catholics and Protestants in Ireland could also be considered examples of "Western terror". What can't be considered examples of "Western terror" would be military operations conducted by the United States or other nation states, regardless of their motives or intent. grifterlake (talk) 21:30, 16 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"What can't be considered examples of "Western terror" would be military operations conducted by the United States or other nation states, regardless of their motives or intent." That is completely, utterly wrong. Wearing a uniform in no way precludes terrorism. Look up 'state terrorism'. Under your definition, a soldier could never commit terrorism no many how many civilians she kills for political ends, and an individual can commit terrorism no many how carefully she avoids harming civilians.