Talk:List of metro systems

Tehran Metro

The Tehran Metro editing is getting ridiculous. I'm not going to revert this time and get trapped into a backdoor edit war. But somebody needs to restore some halfway decent stats there. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 03:48, 26 September 2015 (UTC)

Catania metro

I've seen there was a discussion about the Catania metro in the past and at the end it was decided to cut it from the list although there were several reasons and opinions to leave it in the list. I absolutely would like to reintegrate it in the list, simply because it is a real metro. Maybe it's still small, but it's a normal, typical metro, with the "heavy rail" typical characteristics. The single track is just a very small part (1,8 km) of the whole system and next year the full length will be 8,9 km, all in the urban area, all underground and with double-track. This will also allows trains passing every 4-8 minutes (actually they start to run every 15 minutes simply because the line is still to short and it would be not convenient to use more trains). There are eight Firema M88 trains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreaTartaglia (talk • contribs) 17:01, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

There's a very simple reason we don't include it – the UITP reference that this article relies on doesn't include it in its list of world metro systems. On Wikipedia, we follow sources, and UITP not including it is definitive. There are other reasons that it shouldn't be included here, but the UITP issue is the most important factor. Note, of course, that Catania is included at the Light metro article. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 17:59, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

Where can I find the UITP world metro systems list, please? Reporting the Brescia metro (for example) and not the Catania one seems a nonsense.

It's this: [1]. Unfortunately, the map used to be "clickable" so a larger version could be viewed, and it doesn't seem to be any longer, but it can still be seen that no system in Sicily is listed. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:18, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, someone has just to notice Uitp! — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreaTartaglia (talk • contribs) 21:28, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

We can finally add Catania, as UITP replied me they were actually missing it. The mistake has been corrected as UITP added Catania to the 2014 data, published a couple of weeks ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreaTartaglia (talk • contribs) 20:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

• I've removed this as it clearly falls short of the criteria for being a metro, and there is still not RS to support the claim of it being a full metro. ColonialGrid (talk) 13:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)

I add it again because I've taken it and it's a real metro, now also included in the UITP list as a metro. It's absurd and unreasonable not to put it. Also because there are other systems like the Brescia and Turin ones that are not considered real metros in Italy (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitana_in_Italia) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.83.66.57 (talk) 21:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

They use automated rolling stock from AnsaldoBreda; they're used on the Copenhagen and Rome metros, as well as several others in the future, so I don't see how Brescia or Turin would be considered exceptions to this, that being considered (if that were case, then Bilbao ought to be excluded as well). 74.94.48.153 (talk) 19:42, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

The issue is that there is no reference currently that confirms UITP intends to include this system among its list of world metro systems. (A "personal communication" is not a reliable source as far as Wikipedia policies go.) So I still maintain it should be excluded, at least until such time as such a reference is provided.

Now, there is a larger issue in that some of the systems included by both UITP and LRTA do not objectively meet the full metro criteria (I'm thinking of a number of the French, Italian, and Spanish systems, including especially both Catania and Palma, as well as Rennes), which is unfortunate as it puts us editors in a real bind. But in Catania's case, the single-tracking, as well as the 15 minute headways and small vehicle sizes, really should rule it out from inclusion here, objectively. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:55, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Consult the 2014 Uitp data, it is possible to buy it and there's the Catania metro. The single track line is just for 1,8 km (3,8 it's the total at the right moment, fortunately in 2016 there will be almost 9 kms, the extensions are all double track). There are 8 Firema trains, usually they are used in the basic combination of two cars, that has a capacity of 442 passengers, but all the 4 (10 since 2016) underground stations can host a double train of 4 cars (the Brescia vehicle has a minor capacity). The frequency will pass from 15' to 4'. I also agree to leave Turin and Brescia, although for the Italian technical criteria they are light metro, while the Rome, Naples, Catania and Milan ones are typical "heavy" metros. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreaTartaglia (talk • contribs) 17:54, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

I've actually said nothing about whether Catania will qualify after the extension – that's a discussion we can have at that time. I'm just saying that, right now, it doesn't appear to qualify. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:39, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

• Sorry, but a small line that is single track for over half its length and is restricted to four services an hour is simply not a metro. I have again removed it from the list as there is no consensus for it to be added (indeed, the majority opinion is clearly that it should not be included). If you wish to deliver a source which clearly states it for be a metro (I suspect one may be able to be found after the extensions), but until then, do not re-add it, it will simply be removed again. Regarding your contentions that other Italian systems do not qualify: I agree, however, there are reliable sources that claim them to be a metro, and we repeat what reliable sources say, this is why you need a reliable source. I know you have said the UITP now say it's a metro, and if that is the case, provide a link. ColonialGrid (talk) 12:21, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

"a small line that is single track for over half its length and is restricted to four services an hour is simply not a metro". This is only your opinion. WP:NPOV. Next time found an excuse smarter of it.--79.13.0.179 (talk) 14:51, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

But what sense does it pretend to Catania sources inclusion in UITP (which by the way is only an observer, not valid as a primary source ...), but only and exclusively for this city? I mean, no one ever asked for a source on the UITP regarding the other services in the metropolitan world. Why? I can see that all of metropolitan services Italian does not refer to the UITP, but note overs exclusively or almost exclusively to the official website, I think. And so in other parts of Europe. Require the source UITP exclusively on Catania it has something embarrassing. If it requires for all other meter, then we can discuss it.
Ah, I do not accept judgments on writing in Italian on wp.eng, considering that in the past I have received several calls for collaboration on wp.it by admin of this wiki, strictly in English. I would also tired to have to write in a language not mine, when the other side there is no reciprocity. Thank you for understanding [USED GOOGLE TRANSLATE - bofatinculu]--82.51.35.241 (talk) 07:36, 12 December 2015 (UTC)

What do you think the Catania metro is? It is just a metro. Nowadays it's underutilized, no doubt about this aspect (looking forward summer 2016), but even so it's a metro. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AndreaTartaglia (talk • contribs) 14:49, 13 December 2015 (UTC)