Talk:iPhone SE (1st generation)
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Generation
Is this 10th generation? --Jobu0101 (talk) 16:12, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
Using "the"
Hello, everyone
While the use of articles in English can sometimes be tricky, I expect any editor should know the basic rules of it. For the starter, you can study WP:THE and the Grammar Girl article "When to Use Articles Before Nouns". For a more thorough reading, you can consult a grammar book like Advanced Grammar in Use chapters 44 through 47 or Modern English: A Practical Reference Guide chapter 7.
But the basic rule is: Proper nouns, definite names and plural nouns do not need a definite article. So, most of the times, it is "iPhone" not "the iPhone".
There are two exceptions:
- When "iPhone" is not the core noun, and so "the" applies to the core noun that appears after "iPhone. e.g. "the iPhone design". The core here is "the design".
- When metonymical deletion occurs, i.e. "the iPhone" really stands for "the iPhone device". e.g. "My father bought us three iPhones. One of them stopped working that night. We couldn't make it work so we returned the iPhone for repairs." This applies only to computer hardware; computer software are totally exempt from this rule. e.g you never hear "Red Alerts"; it is always two copies of Red Alert.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 14:15, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- @Codename Lisa:, I invite you (and other editors who may be interested) to read these two articles which were written by an English teacher. They discuss using the definite article with the names of manufactured products and inventions. The second one specifically discusses the iPhone.
- http://masteringarticles.com/inventions-product-names/ (See Rule 6.6)
- http://masteringarticles.com/definite-article-iphone/
- 2601:5C2:100:9A1:3D84:8C90:84FC:BC34 (talk) 02:11, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hi. These articles seem to come from a self-published blog with no by-line, no date and no identification means whereas my sources are books by reputable publishers (Cambridge University Press no less). They could very well be your blog posts!
- You'd forgive my skepticism but I also see that your IP address resembles the IP of certain troll that only seeks to dispute me. (He once claimed he is just trying to edit like everyone else, but he has certainly not offered any assistance.)
- Best regards,
- Codename Lisa (talk) 08:47, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- @Codename Lisa: The Grammar Girl article doesn't address this situation since it is only discussing time. Do the others discuss product names specifically? If so, can you please narrow down the reference to specific pages or rules that apply to product names?
- On the other hand, here is a Wall Street Journal article which also specifically discusses the iPhone as well as Apple's history of improper grammar use in marketing:
- http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424053111903895904576546910525327024
- 2601:5C2:100:9A1:98ED:C19:4902:B940 (talk) 11:42, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- I didn't know WSJ cares about linguistic articles. Nevertheless, it says "Place No Faith in Articles" and "They're going AWOL". It says sentences like "Kindle is succeeding" and "buy iPhone" are getting common. I will use this source the next time I removed articles. Thanks a lot. :)
- Advanced Grammar in Use specifically talks about hardware products but it has no guideline brand names except the general rule: No definite articles before definite nouns, proper names and plurals. It would be ideal to have a source that explains why people once used "the" before hardware brand names in violation of the general rule. But as WSJ says, they don't violate anymore.
- Best regards,
- Codename Lisa (talk) 12:19, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- @Codename Lisa: Nice try, but to quote from the above article:
Branding gurus defend the "the" omission. "When you can drop an article, the brand takes on a more iconic feel," argues Allen Adamson, managing director of WPP Group PLC's branding agency, Landor Associates. But grammarians disagree. Theodore Bernstein's 1965 tome "The Careful Writer," dedicates two pages to omitting articles, which he called a "disfigurement of the language." He warns: "When the writer is tempted to lop it off, he should ask himself whether he would as readily delete the other articles in his sentence. Would we write, 'Main feature of combined first floors of new building will be spacious hospitality area'? Obviously not." The Wall Street Journal style calls for inserting articles before product names, except in quotations, even if companies omit them, says stylebook editor Paul Martin."
- 2601:5C2:100:9A1:98ED:C19:4902:B940 (talk) 12:32, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- @Codename Lisa: Nice try, but to quote from the above article:
- Start-Class Apple Inc. articles
- Mid-importance Apple Inc. articles
- WikiProject Apple Inc. articles
- WikiProject Apps
- Start-Class apps articles
- Low-importance apps articles
- WikiProject Apps articles
- Start-Class electronic articles
- Low-importance electronic articles
- WikiProject Electronics articles
- Unknown-importance Apple Inc. articles
- Start-Class Technology articles
- WikiProject Technology articles
- Start-Class Telecommunications articles
- Low-importance Telecommunications articles