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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Holland Road, Bukit Timah

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Kolam Ayer vs. Geylang Bahru

There was none of reference provided in content about "KA" town to be changed its name into "GB" and even PAP still locating their related town office as "KA" branch. The future nearby MRT is not the reason about change of town name. Please roll back the move before your confirmation. Thank you.--Gzyeah (talk) 09:37, 20 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry but I believe you are mistaken, the page was renamed as such as I am following the naming conventions set by the URA for their urban planning areas and subzones in their latest 2014 Master Plan, which can be found here. MageLam 5:44, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Appreciated for your info added at the moment. The reference source format has been modified for the better display of link(s) & text(s). Kindly being more considerate and thoughtful when you are updating the content. Thank you.--Gzyeah (talk) 12:05, 20 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if you have ever been staying in Singapore... if yes, please try to roam around & visit the places that mentioned in your monitored articles as you can... I'm sorry to say but some of your changes looks really puzzled and a bit lose contact with reality... Especially when found you referring population details from a DE portal... Hope you can understand... Thank you.--Gzyeah (talk) 19:34, 22 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've been residing in Singapore all my life, what do you mean I've lost contact with reality? Well anyways, I used statistics from citypopulation.de as it is the only place so far where I can find population density and planning area size information. I myself have been walking around certain places in Singapore these past few weeks, examining most of the areas that I have mentioned in my monitored articles. I was also wondering if you are local as well? No offence, but your grammar is subpar. MageLam 7:32, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi & Morning, Lam (林?), I'm not local yet but residing in SG for more than a decade already so far. Since I'm not a English-born person, there is hard to avoid lingual fault while specially in this SingLish environment sometimes. I may only eligible to update the articles about places that I stayed or visited frequently before based on my memories & knowledge in life time. No offence as well & just reply your question honestly. Appreciated for your answer & wish you a happy editing as always. Thank you.--Gzyeah (talk) 00:05, 23 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there Gzyeah, thanks for the reply. Just a friendly reminder. Please, call me Mage. I rather not be referred to as "Lam". XD MageLam 8:10, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

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Renaming SG Geographical articles

Hi! I noticed that you have renamed several articles related to Singapore place names. For eg, "Dover, Singapore" to "Dover, Queenstown". However, the general convention is to use "placename, country" according to WP:NCCS#Region-specific_guidance. A more specific name such as "placename, regionname" is used only if there are multiple places with the same name in the country. As such, I moved the pages Dover, Singapore and Commonwealth, Singapore back to their original locations. In addition, I created a new article for Bidadari, Toa Payoh and restored the original article of the Bidadari Cemetery. The article on the cemetery is supposed to refer only to the cemetery itself. -- Lemongirl942 (talk) 09:52, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. I do apologize for failing to follow the stated guidelines. I will be working over the next few days to restore the names of all the SG geographical articles that I have renamed. -- MageLam 10:04, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. Just to note, in some cases, your moving might actually be correct. You can let those be as they are. -- Lemongirl942 (talk) 10:36, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
In any case, I appreciate your helping out with Singapore geographical articles. Most of the articles are in a bad shape and need a lot of work. Thank you for your help. Lemongirl942 (talk) 10:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the compliment. I am still unsure of which articles to rename as I have renamed most if not all of the articles with new titles. If you can find any that need appropriate renaming, do inform me. MageLam 11:14, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi! I just checked sources and found both Japanese and Chinese gardens are Islands.
Source 1 (NHB Jurong Heritage Trail Booklet) [1] Page 60 states Jurong Lake Park was constructed on the west bank of the lake, while the Chinese Garden and Japanese Garden were established on two man-made islets. A third islet forms part of the Jurong Country Club golf course.
Source 2 (URA Brochure) [2] Page 12 states More connections will be made to the two garden islands within the lake so that residents and visitors can better access the green open spaces in the gardens.
I am doing the relevant changes now. As for the page moving changes, if I find any I will change it. Lemongirl942 (talk) 14:13, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey there! I've heard many people talk about this a lot, but I do believe that the Japanese Gardens and Jurong Country Club sit on peninsulas. An islet should be entirely surrounded by a body of water. Despite what many sources say, a simple check on most satellite images or topographical maps pretty much contradict this. MageLam 15:59, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
But anyway, thanks for the help. I was just wondering if I could use a second hand at improving the Jurong article, which I have been working on revising recently. It seems like I've been the only person improving that article, as you can tell from the revision history. There are just a few more sections that do require clean-up and rewriting. Your help is most appreciated. MageLam 16:15, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, from the map it does look like a peninsula to me. But unfortunately, we have to follow cited information for Wikipedia (WP:NOR). Since multiple sources say they are islets, I am willing to let it be called islands.

Sure, I will have a look at the Jurong article and see if I can help out! Thank you for letting me know. Lemongirl942 (talk) 16:38, 10 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, for the naming of article titles, usually the "most commonly referred name" is used, even if it might differ from the official name (see WP:COMMONNAME and WP:OFFICIALNAMES). The official name is however, mentioned in the article lead. I would suggest not to change long standing article names without a discussion. (see WP:TITLECHANGES). It would be good to discuss before moving the article since moving seems to create problems. (I was unable to move Pulau Serangoon to Coney Island, Singapore, even though Coney Island is the more well known name).
It could also happen that sometimes, the article refers to a historic precinct or neighbourhood and contains information about it. In such cases, I would usually not prefer to change the name but rather create a new article about the present neighbourhood. Lemongirl942 (talk) 09:47, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the move for Pandan, Singapore wouldn't be necessary as it is a commonly used name. I rather move Trafalgar, Singapore in my opinion. MageLam (talk) 09:52, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also you might need this, if it is of any help to you. MageLam (talk) 09:55, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. The map is helpful for the official names. However, if I am not wrong I have mostly seen it being referred to as Pandan Gardens instead of only Pandan. ([3]). In addition, if you see this link from URA it is mentioned as "Pandan Gardens" [4] (search for pandan). If new article names are contentious, I generally suggest leaving them as original.
I think it should be OK to move Trafalgar, Singapore back to Buangkok.
For Bartley and Joo Seng, let me research and find out. Lemongirl942 (talk) 10:26, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding the Boon Lay subzone articles. Should they have a ", Singapore" suffix or should they remain as they are, given the fact there is also Boon Lay Place in Jurong West. Also, I believe that Shipyard, Boon Lay should remain as it is given the fact that a title like "Shipyard, Singapore" would be rather confusing. MageLam (talk) 11:09, 11 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi!
  1. Shipyard, Boon Lay seems better as compared to Shipyard, Singapore (since shipyard is a common noun as well, people might be confused is the latter is used).
  2. I would leave Boon Lay and Boon Lay Place with existing titles, but add a disambiguation link at the top.
  3. I looked up the Pandan Gardens and Pandan difference online. You are correct that Pandan Gardens seems to refer to the 'estate alongside Teban Gardens'. However, I am not sure if your renaming was appropriate. The original article titled "Pandan Gardens" seemed to be about the estate itself and not the planning area. If I am not wrong, we are not supposed to change the core subject of an article (even if we rename the article). In this case for example, changing the estate to the planning area in the same article. This messes up the edit history as well. For example, now if someone were to start a article specifically about the Pandan Gardens Estate, that article would not have the edit history of the current article. The correct thing according to me is to Create a new article for "Pandan, Singapore" planning area and add info about the urban planning area. As for the "Pandan Gardens" article, it can be left as it is or the content can be replaced with a single redirect link to "Teban Gardens". However, the edit history of the original "Pandan Gardens" articles should be preserved as it is.
I will have a look at the other articles soon. Lemongirl942 (talk) 03:27, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm maintaining a list of all renames and fixing I am doing. User_talk:Lemongirl942#SG_GEO_Rename_List. You can refer to this list for clarifications. You can also add your renames and the explanations to it. Lemongirl942 (talk) 04:47, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there @Lemongirl942. I think we should expand on the articles we have newly created rather than simply copying and pasting content from the parent article. Two of them, Bidadari, Toa Payoh and Bras Basah lack references and I think we should do something about that. Also, I think its important to help distinguish that an article about a road and an article about a precinct are not the same, as the Bras Basah Road article appears to discuss about the precinct in general as well. MageLam (talk) 04:54, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi MageLam. Yup, I just added a reference to Bidadari, Toa Payoh. Will add more shortly. I was wondering if we should name it Bidadari, Toa Payoh or Bidadari Estate. A search on google news shows "Bidadari Estate" to have been widely used. (In future, the estate might also become part of a different planning area. Bidadari Estate seems a more long lasting name). Since the current article Bidadari, Toa Payoh is about the estate, I guess we can move it to Bidadari Estate? --Lemongirl942 (talk) 14:30, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I believe the current name is fine. The URA simply refers to the subzone as "Bidadari". Also, I believe Bidadari is more colloquially used than Bidadari Estate. MageLam (talk) 14:34, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think merging Bidadari Cemetery with Bidadari, Toa Payoh is a better solution. The history of the cemetery could be discussed in a section in the Bidadari, Toa Payoh article. MageLam (talk) 14:38, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with merging is that, the article on the Cemetery is a standalone article and it contains other information like an infobox on the cemetery and past burials. It would be difficult to move all this information to the article about the estate. Instead of merging, we can replicate a small amount of content on the estate article. For example, create a history section and mention briefly about the cemetery (and point a link to the main article). Only a small amount of information (about etymology) would be replicated. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 14:50, 12 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi there @Lemongirl942, I have noticed that while you were moving several articles, you assumed that some of these places have a so called "common name" attached to them. In most instances, this is rather incorrect. For example Chong Pang is the name of a ward in Nee Soon GRC, it isn't a physical location like Yishun West, which has clearer and more defined boundaries. I would suggest that before moving these type of articles, do discuss about it first.MageLam (talk) 06:16, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Proposed convention for URA subzones/planning area

Hi! I was thinking it would be good if we have a convention for Geo articles about Singapore. Personally, I think articles which refer to a neighbourhood/estate should be left alone. Usually neighbourhoods/estates are small divisions and their boundaries remain fixed over time. These should be left alone and not converted to articles about a similar name or differently named subzone. (The main problem is that the subject of the article changes and the edit history continuity is destroyed. For example the article titled Pandan Gardens was only about the estate. When it was moved to Pandan, Singapore and all references in the article to Pandan Gardens were replaced by Pandan, it became an article about the subzone. It however still retained the edit history of Pandan Garden. In contrast the new Pandan Gardens (which now redirects to Teban Gardens, has no edit history). Ideally the edit history of Pandan Gardens should stay where it is while Pandan, Singapore should be a new article.

I am working on a draft of Singapore naming conventions. Till that time, let us only rename articles after discussion. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:22, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Let's discuss it on this page User:Lemongirl942/List_of_proposed_moves. Easier to keep track. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 06:33, 13 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Buona Vista MRT Station (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
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Template:Places in Singapore

Hi Mage, understood about your edit structure, but, if you prefer to make it only for Planing Area, please create a new template accordingly, rather than such huge clean-up, since it was originally just show about "Places" generally. Maybe I can assist you to move your current source data into new template sooner or later, while you can do that yourself separately as well.--Gzyeah (talk) 15:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there! How about we discuss more about this on this page. I've been working on an improvement project for SG geo related articles with Lemongirl942, join us. :D -- MageLam (talk) 16:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Mage~! Since I might be more busy than you on daily works & probably no time to express a lot on discussion here continuously, while I do know that "Lemongirl942" was also improving articles with you on SG geo projects, the new Template:Planning Areas of Singapore has been settled for you at the first place, in order to have no distribution for other users whom still using the "places" template & referring to the main article accordingly. Thanks for you invitation & I would take time for discussions with you guys when free at the moment. Regards, --Gzyeah (talk) 16:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Gzyeah: I am having an important discussion on this template right now on the SG geo improvement page. Your redirect kinda caused the edit history to get messed up. -- MageLam (talk) 16:35, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be appropriate to wait for Lemongirl942 to get back online before you do anything further. Let's have a discussion on this. -- MageLam (talk) 16:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh... Frankly you started the huge clean-up initially, what I did just a rescue or workaround to save & balance your new edits against to some current demand you may overlooked or did not realize appropriately. Good night.--Gzyeah (talk) 16:47, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, the thing is, the old edit history from the old Template:Places in Singapore is still located inside Template:Planning Areas of Singapore. The new Template:Places in Singapore dosen't preserve this edit history. Got what I mean? -- MageLam (talk) 16:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@MageLam and Gzyeah: Ah I saw what happened. The template was originally about places but it was modified to planning areas and then moved to planning areas. This however results in loss of edit history since the original template was about places (or "suburbs"). But we can solve this! The first step is to restore WP:STATUSQUO. Move the template back to the original page. Restore the edit history to the last long term stable version. Then for planning areas (grouped into regions), a new template can be created which can then be used in the planning area articles (instead of the original places template).
As for the subzone template, I am personally not sure if it is required. The problem with the subzone (and places) templates is that it is hard to determine which places/subzones to include in the template. Considering the number of subzones, it will add to clutter in the template as well. On top of that, URA keeps changing the subzone boundaries and keeps renaming them.
For the time being, the existing "places" template can be kept in articles not about planning areas. But it would be best if articles about planning areas use only the new "planning area" template. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 17:04, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@MageLam and Lemongirl942: FYI, the admin move request (to revert back page title) has been placed in template talk page as per wiki SOP.--Gzyeah (talk) 17:22, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@MageLam and Gzyeah: Oh no, I already listed that. Gzyeah, can you withdraw your request. Otherwise there will be two requests. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 17:25, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lemongirl942 and Gzyeah: I've already removed the conflicting move request on Gzyeah's behalf. -- MageLam (talk) 17:29, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Ah great! OK, next time we should synchronise haha :D --Lemongirl942 (talk) 17:30, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@MageLam and Lemongirl942: But the title still showing for "planning areas", so should we wait for more hours to let system update?--Gzyeah (talk) 17:33, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Gzyeah: This has to be done manually by an admin. We need to wait for a while. Till that time it is best we do not modify it --Lemongirl942 (talk) 17:34, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Lemongirl942: Okay & noted with great thanks!--Gzyeah (talk) 17:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@Lemongirl942 and Gzyeah: It's been quite a night guys! Getting pretty tired now, good night! XD -- MageLam (talk) 17:39, 27 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Notice of Conflict of interest noticeboard discussion

Information icon This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard regarding a possible conflict of interest incident in which you may be involved. Thank you. Linrx (talk) 11:19, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Information icon Hello, MageLam. We welcome your contributions, but if you have an external relationship with the people, places or things you have written about in the article Central Area, you may have a conflict of interest (COI). Editors with a COI may be unduly influenced by their connection to the topic. See the conflict of interest guideline and FAQ for organizations for more information. In particular, please:

  • avoid editing or creating articles related to you and your circle, your organization, its competitors, projects or products;
  • instead propose changes on the talk pages of affected articles (see the {{request edit}} template);
  • when discussing affected articles, disclose your COI (see WP:DISCLOSE);
  • avoid linking to the Wikipedia article or website of your organization in other articles (see WP:SPAM);
  • exercise great caution so that you do not violate Wikipedia's content policies.

In addition, you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation (see WP:PAID).

Please familiarize yourself with relevant policies and guidelines, especially those pertaining to neutral point of view, sourcing and autobiographies. Thank you..

Some compassion

Take care
Hi MageLam. I know only a little bit about Central Areas and CBDs, but I wish you all the best here at planet Earth. *PS: Good faith is not synonymous with ethical action, with good faith you can still cause a lot of damage to this society. I hope you noted the points that I mentioned I found you correct and right in, instead of focusing on where I hope I was being very lucid and clear that having you as the single contributor of an article is the underlying reason why an intervention had to take place sooner or later. Wikipedia is not your car that you drive alone. If you own the Wikipedia article, it is only this year that weblogging has officially become recognised as a taxable item in the latest Tax laws that are coming into effect. If you receive any gifts in kind from fellow wikipedians, they too need to be declared under refreshed tax guidelines other than your apparent retirement. Take care, Linrx (talk) 11:45, 5 April 2016 (UTC)}[reply]

Please assume good faith in your dealings with other editors, which you did not on Central Area.

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