User talk:SciRealm

Welcome!

Hello, SciRealm! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already excited about Wikipedia, you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field when making edits to pages. Happy editing! –Gladamastalk 00:34, 30 May 2016 (UTC) Getting Started Contributing to Wikipedia The five pillars of Wikipedia • Tutorial • Your first article How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions New contributors' help page Where to: ask questions • make requests Tip of the day Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Simplified Manual of Style • Three-revert rule Copyrights • Non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism • Sock puppetry Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump IRC channels • Mailing lists Discover what's going on in the Wikimedia community (The Signpost) Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Maintenance • Peer review • Requested articles Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Reliable sources

Hello, I'm DVdm. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Mass–energy equivalence, but you didn't provide a source. I’ve removed it for now, but if you’d like to include a citation to a reliable source and re-add it, please do so! If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks. DVdm (talk) 07:59, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: Wikipedia is not a textbook — see wp:NOTTEXTBOOK, and of course see also our policiy about wp:original research. Cheers - DVdm (talk) 08:04, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks already for this source. Can please add the page too? Then I'll cast it into a templated {{cite book}}. - DVdm (talk) 10:58, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Done: [1]. - DVdm (talk) 11:04, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Please do not add original research or novel syntheses of published material to articles as you apparently did to Mass–energy equivalence. Please cite a reliable source for all of your contributions. Note that I have removed your addition again: [2]. You analysis ("Working out the math...") does not appear in my copy of Carrol, nor in my 1st edition of Rindler. We can only report what is explicitlly in the sources. We are not allowed to draw our conclusions, or make syntheses—see wp:SYNTH. We have to stricly confine ourserlves to what is actually in the sources. Again, Wikipedia is not a textbook. Please keep that in mind. Thanks. - DVdm (talk) 15:58, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Note: see also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics#Sources at Four-gradient. - DVdm (talk) 16:15, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Hi DVdm,

Perhaps I don't understand - does this not fall under the routine math part?

"Routine calculations do not count as original research, provided there is consensus among editors that the result of the calculation is obvious, correct, and a meaningful reflection of the sources. Basic arithmetic, such as adding numbers, converting units, or calculating a person's age are some examples of routine calculations"

If there is a specific line you don't like I can probably find a reference to it. I studied theoretical physics and I have lots of physics books... SciRealm (talk) 16:27, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Yes, you are referring to wp:CALC. But note that you are writing physics here, where the physical meanings of the variables make all the difference. Deriving an equation from a few sourced equations could be fine, but then describing the physical meaning of the result, or drawing conclusions from it, is definitely wp:SYNTH, unless of course the description and the conclusions appear in the source. - DVdm (talk) 17:06, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Is there a particular line that you need a reference for? I would be happy to look for the references. SciRealm (talk) 17:11, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

For instance, "This formulation gives a very good reason why invariant rest mass m₀ and invariant rest energy E₀ should always be denoted with a naught." But everything actually. I don't know how to put it, but the entire derivation, and every written sentence should be present in the sources. Perhaps you could ask for input or Wiki-guidance at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics#Sources at Four-gradient. - DVdm (talk) 17:21, 30 May 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I see a problem already. Various authors use slightly different notations for the same equations. For instance, some use $m$ for invariant rest mass, others use $m_{o}$ for invariant rest mass and use $m$ for relativistic mass. Many authors set factors of $c$ and $\hbar$ and $G$ to dimensionless unity. Others show some or all the constants. Some authors use $v$ for velocity, others use $u$. Some use $K$ as a 4-wavevector (to pick an arbitrary example). Users use $k$ or $\mathbf {K}$ or $k^{\mu }$ or $k_{\mu }$ or $K^{\nu }$ or $N$, etc. Some write the 4-wavevector as $({\frac {\omega }{c}},\mathbf {k} )$, some as $(k^{0},\mathbf {k} )$ or $(k^{0},k^{1},k^{2},k^{3})$ or $(k^{1},k^{2},k^{3},k^{4})$ or $(k^{1},k^{2},k^{3},ik^{4})$. Some will make sure that the dimensional units match across the 4-vector, others don't. Some refer to the temporal component in the 4-vector name, others refer to the spatial component in the 4-vector name. And worse than that, some mix it throughout the book, sometimes using one then later on the other. Some use the metric (+---), others use the metric (-+++). Some don't use 4-vectors, but do everything as the old style E and 3-vector p. The thing is, all of these are just notational styles, with some more clear and concise than the others. The physics is the same as long as one uses a consist style throughout the whole derivation. I don't know that I will be able to find references for every part that will use the same style. However, each and every line that I wrote for 4-vector energy-mass was correct and factual. If that is not good enough then I guess I will go do something else with my time. Unless you can think of some other solution, thanks anyway... SciRealm (talk) 19:12, 30 May 2016 (UTC)