Talk:Tzatziki

Definition

The first sentence reads:

"Tzatziki is a Greek appetizer, also used as a sauce for gyros or doner kebabs"

Wrong. It's not an appetizer. It's a sauce. I'm changing the first sentence to reflect this. Also, I'm deleting this sentence:

"While in Greece and Turkey the dish is usually served as an accompaniment, in other places tzatziki is often served with bread (loaf or pita) as part of the first course of a meal[citation needed]."

Wrong. Tatziki is meant to accompany grilled meats, not bread. I'm deleting this bullshit sentence. Also, this article is about Greek tzatziki. If there's a similar Turkish sauce, then that should be mentioned in the "variations" section of the article, not at the beginning. Skyduster (talk) 17:22, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

Spelling Variations of Yogurt/Yoghurt

As a new-ish wikipedian, I am not familiar with the rule here. Can someone tell me about spelling variations within the same article? Shouldn't a single spelling be used throughout? Who Is Christopher? (talk) 21:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Its probably better that people express themselves, then the mistakes can always be edited, if you find the spellings strange, then edit them!Hotspury (talk) 10:01, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Picture

The photograph of the article is not indicative of tzatziki; it depicts the Turkish soup-like cacik, which differs from tzatziki as it is far more diluted and cannot be used as a condiment. I'm going to remove the picture and replace with one of tzatziki later on today. Eikonografos 23:06, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

>1 ½ cup of Greek yoghurt (strained).......

Instead of cups I suggest to use a fixed parameter, like millilitre or gram. I guess I am not the only one who has cups of various sizes at home.

The recipe means the cup unit of measurement (which typically is a fixed size for a given region), not just any random drinking vessel. — Xaonon (Talk) 19:33, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Wise words

"For a for a more garlicky tase, add more garlic."

Couldn't of said it any better myself.

GSMalette 22:58, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

-I was just coming here to add that myself.. damn you for beating me to the punch!

What is...

what is greek yoghurt?

there is nothing particularly greek about greek yoghurt, it just means thick yoghurt as it has been strained to some degree. it is probably called greek yoghurt because they are the bulk of immigrants in the US and the UK that brought yoghurt with them. this type of yoghurt is eaten wherever yoghurt is traditionaly made —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hotspury (talk • contribs) 16:21, 2 May 2008 (UTC) It is also important to know, that in tzaziki sauce, we put a lot of garlic... so be careful!

Notes on Commercial Tzatziki in USA and Greek yogurt

I personally experienced that heavy sour cream and complex additives rather than yogurt were included in a half-gallon container, sold for restaurant use. The taste is too rich and oily for hot summers when it has to accompany fried peppers, eggplants, potatoes, all oily on the dish. Very surprized. "Greek" yogurt as explained in talk section as strained yogurt is called bag-yogurt or 'torba yogurdu', a staple of weekly produce markets in Ankara and East of it where various locals and turks compared culinary notes in peace for about a thousand years. 67.86.58.205 (talk) 05:59, 23 June 2008 (UTC)Wikici

Edits needed

I think the spelling tzaziki should link to this tzatziki article, as well as other common mispellings (transliterations?). Is there a policy for linking mispellings to the correct article, especially in a case of foreign word origin? I'm sure I'm not the only one who spells it wrong.

Also, I believe the only cited content in the article is incorrect. The encarta online dictionary link says:

"tzat·zi·ki Greek dip: a dip of Greek origin made from yogurt, chopped cucumber, mint, and garlic [Mid-20th century. Via modern Greek tsatsiki< Turkish cacik]"

So it's not suggesting the greek word is derived from the Turkish term. It's saying the Turkish term for Tzatziki is cacik. Right? (ChocoCereal (talk) 22:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC))

The Greek word τζατζίκι definitely comes from the Turkish word cacık. The c in Turkish orthography represents the j sound of English. Greek possesses no native j sound but represents this sound in loan words with τζ (cf. τζαζ for jazz, τζετ for jet, τζην for jeans, etc.). Among the Greek words including τζ for j are a number of Turkish loan words. The admittedly confusing Encarta etymology actually means that the English tzatziki comes from the Modern Greek tzatziki which in turn comes from the Turkish cacık. Aramgar (talk) 23:40, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

• Hi, ChocoCereal. The type of linking you are talking about is called a redirect on Wikipedia, and you can learn all about them at WP:REDIRECT. Hope that helps, Kafka Liz (talk) 23:49, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks to both of you for your answers. I will investigate the article on redirects.

I couldn't find any sources supporting a Turkish origin for the word Tzatziki, but I accept your detailed explanation as well as your understanding of the Encarta entry. I wasn't sure what the greater-than sign meant. Your knowledge on the subject is impressive. Clearly the two words are closely related and I think the articles could better reflect this. Maybe it will bring people together, or perhaps it will provide one more source for feuding.

Anyway, I think it's interesting, and probably not surprising, that the two countries and cultures have such a similar word for a food that's common (though not identical as I understand it) to both.(ChocoCereal (talk) 00:01, 30 October 2008 (UTC))

"During preparation, the yogurt (Bulgarian: кисело мляко, Macedonian: кисело млеко, Serbian: кисело млеко) is hung for several hours in a kerchief and loses about half of its water (drained yogurt, Bulgarian: цедено кисело мляко, Serbian: цеђено кисело млеко, Macedonian: цедено кисело млеко)." ==> yogurt and sour milk (кисело млеко) are two completely different things, they are made differently and taste differently. someone should repair this, it's confusing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.139.63.174 (talk) 14:50, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Your next challenge

What does (cf. tarator) mean? I think it should be written out whatever it is.

The other part of this article I find confusing is the bit about ttalattouri and then later it talks about cacık as a chutney.

I'm more familiar with Indian chutney, so this seems very confusing to me, and even more so because the Turkish cacik seems very similar to the greek tzatziki (which are also closely related linguistically). So I'm not clear on what this other ttalattouri is.

Can you help me understand and maybe we can fix it better in the article so it makes more sense? What do you think?(ChocoCereal (talk) 00:18, 30 October 2008 (UTC))

cf. is an abbreviation for the Latin confer, meaning compare. Sorry for a drive-by reply -- I'm off-wiki for the rest of the evening, but I'd be happy to help where I can. I haven't read the entire article yet, but I'm certain we can clean it up a bit if it's unclear or not making sense. Kafka Liz (talk) 00:31, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it's comparing the word "ttalattouri" with "tarator", since they seem similar phonologically. Those words, along with "tzatziki" and "cacık", refer to regional variations of what is essentially the same dish. BalkanFever 04:06, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I would think "tarator" is "Tartar sauce".AverageTurkishJoe (talk) 13:44, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

"Tarator" in Bulgaria is a cold soup; not a sauce. There are some similarities with tzatziki, but I would not call it a variant; not even a similar food. "Slezanka" is much closer to tzatziki than tarator.--Yannismarou (talk) 14:06, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

Anglicized pronunciation

An Anglicized pronunciation of this word is given as /zɑːdˈziːki/ (zahd-ZEEK-ee) which seems wrong in so many ways. I've only ever heard tzatziki pronounced in English as /təˈziːki/ (tuh-ZEEK-ee). I checked the OED which gives the even more ludicrous pronunciation /tsætˈsɪki/ (tsat-SIK-ee) despite the fact that [ts] is not permitted at the beginning of a word in English (i.e. tsar, tsunami...). I'm assuming this is more prescriptive than descriptive.

Assuming the pronunciation is Anglicized via regular patterns, we would expect /sætˈsɪki/ (sat-SIK-ee) or possibly /zædˈzɪki/ (zad-ZIK-ee) or alternatively stress placed on the first syllable or swap either syllable for one in the other transcription. The sound in the first syllable of the transcription on the page [ɑː] (as in father) is not readily explainable via spelling and seems to clash with the English interpretation of spelling.

I am curious if my pronunciation /təˈziːki/ (tuh-ZEEK-ee) is a localized phenomenon or if others pronounce it the same way. How do other native English speakers pronounce this word? What should the proper Anglicized pronunciation on this page be? -Devin (d.s.ronis) (talk) 12:13, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

As a native American English speaker, I’ve always heard and said it as tsat-SEEK-ee; it’s possible that I’ve mainly heard the word spoken by Greek immigrants. The OED pronounciation does sound British to me, albeit no more ludicrous than the rest of the bizarre jibber-jabber spoken on that island. The supposed proscription on ts- words in English doesn’t cut any ice, as you note with tsar and tsunami. El Mariachi (talk) 13:26, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Spellings

An editor has been adding various variant spellings to the lead, including 'jajiki', 'dzadziki', etc. But I have found no evidence that these spellings are common anywhere. Take a look at the Google ngrams for some of the variants. Remember, WP policy is not to include all possible spellings, but only the common or notable ones. --Macrakis (talk) 20:08, 26 January 2013 (UTC)

Tzatziki image

The image used for Tzatziki in the main frame is way off the traditional Tzatziki recipe produced in Greece. I dont have a clue what is the reddish herb sprinkled over it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vagr7 (talk • contribs) 09:58, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Yogurt and Tzatziki

Cacik's main ingredient yogurt is a genuine Turkish/Turkic food, it comes from Turkish word ""yoğurt"" . So so called Greek yogurt and Tzatziki are not Greek they are of Turkish/Turkic origin. So This article needs an overhaul.--Prusan (talk) 14:58, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

The origin of a dish can be completely different from the origin of any one of its ingredients. Largoplazo (talk) 22:11, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Cacık

Tzatziki and cacık are fundamentally the same dish, and they are virtually the same word, with the former being the romanization of the Greek spelling and the latter being the Turkish spelling of which the Greek form is an adaptation. The bulk of both articles consists of a list of variations of the respective dishes, and those lists cover almost exactly the same ground. The list in the tzatziki article even gives the list in the cacık article as its "main article". Largoplazo (talk) 16:37, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

• Support Xtremedood (talk) 20:51, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
• Support — Eru·tuon 05:31, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
• Support Although Greek tzatziki is normally thick, and Turkish cacık is normally thin, they are fundamentally the same thing, and should be covered together. All to often on Wikipedia we have multiple articles on essentially the same thing, divided by country. That isn't the way WP is supposed to work. --Macrakis (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Support i completely agree and was about to suggest the same - there is no substantial difference between the two and the Greek clearly derives from the Turkish in the Ottoman era. Merge please Truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true; and she does not despise the jewel which she has rescued from the mud, but adds it to her former treasures 19:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Tzatziki may be Greek or Turkish

Shingling334 is still changing the information from Greek to Turkish without any sources. Tzatziki may come from the Greek Cypriot administration and not the Turkish Cypriot one. Eyesnore 21:37, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

(even though the origin of this term comes from the Turkish language) Eyesnore 21:39, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Why don't we just remove the claim as to the origin until we have a source indicating what the origin is? In connection with that, may I direct your attention to the previous section on this Talk page, #Proposed merge with Cacık? Largoplazo (talk) 22:09, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

What does a food or a food name have to do with "administration", Greek or Turkish? --Macrakis (talk) 21:50, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

i completely agree and was about to suggest the same - there is no substantial difference between the two and the Greek clearly derives from the Turkish in the Ottoman era. Merge please Truth regards not who is the speaker, nor in what manner it is spoken, but that the thing be true; and she does not despise the jewel which she has rescued from the mud, but adds it to her former treasures 19:10, 10 August 2016 (UTC)