Talk:Syrian Democratic Forces
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Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa?
According to [1], Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa isn't part of the SDF. David O. Johnson (talk) 07:38, 1 November 2015 (UTC)
Idlib and Aleppo groups
I will clean this item because more than half that are listed on that groups are on the thirteen groups signed the founding document!!! That thing has no logic!!! They are not one thing in Idlib and Aleppo and other in the rest of Syria!!!
I´ve had a source to prove that, an interview to Col. Talal Silo, spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces, that spoke with Al-Monitor about the coalition by phone Dec. 10 and 12 and explain: "Fifteen factions did join in Aleppo’s countryside, but nine of those were already key members of our coalition, meaning that only six new factions joined our ranks. We call on all military factions to join us, and we welcome them as partners in the Syrian Democratic Forces, as long as they believe in our goals and aspirations to fight IS."
I have also clean the "Various tribal forces in Aleppo Governorate" and "Regiment 102" because there are no support for the two designations/groups!!!
Best regards --Geosapiens (talk) 18:29, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks, Geosapiens. I just reworded the paragraph a bit. What exactly was the reason why you removed Regiment 102 from the list, apart from the fact that the list contained 7 rather than 6 new groups? PanchoS (talk) 18:54, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Well PanchoS were are the "Regiment 102" designation to be correct? I dont find them in any place? Do you? You added Al-Tawhid Brigade were are the support to that add? Because if you read the wikipedia article of that group is said that: "(...)the Ahrar al-Shamal Brigade, was reportedly "superseded" by the Northern Sun Battalion (Shams al-Shamal)." and if that is true ( http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/profile-tajammu-alwiya-fajr-al-hurriya/ ) that is not correct!!! Like the designation of "fifteen rebel groups" if like Col. Talal Silo, spokesman for the Syrian Democratic Forces explain: "Fifteen factions did join in Aleppo’s countryside, but nine of those were already key members of our coalition, meaning that only six new factions joined our ranks. We call on all military factions to join us, and we welcome them as partners in the Syrian Democratic Forces, as long as they believe in our goals and aspirations to fight IS." is better to write only "rebel groups" no? Or "new six rebel groups"? Best regards--Geosapiens (talk) 19:06, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry, if I don't exactly get your point. I didn't add the Al-Tawhid Brigade, but linked the Ahrar al-Shamal Brigade, which currently happens to be a redirect only. reportedly "superseded" is far to vague to infer anything. Obviously, Ahrar al-Shamal still exists separately from Shams al-Shamal. --PanchoS (talk) 19:28, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- For me PanchoS it´s OK that final edition. Best regards--Geosapiens (talk) 19:34, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
Syriac letters
A minor question: has anybody had any luck adding the Syriac name in Syriac letters? --Simha (talk) 13:01, 1 March 2016 (UTC)
External links modified
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"Relations with the Syrian Government" Chapter
Because this chapter is a bit out of date I will in the next days change it to be up to date with other articles of the Wikipedia that are linked to this article, like Rojava–Syrian government relations. Best regards Geosapiens (talk) 11:50, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
- I don't think it should be listed here but rather at the page you linked. The YPG/Asayish forces in al-Qamishli never operated under the SDF and the relations article is a good page to put all these information in. Editor abcdef (talk) 11:28, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
- I dont agree with that affirmation, Editor abcdef, that "The YPG/Asayish forces in al-Qamishli never operated under the SDF", it´s simple not true, both the YPG/YPJ and the Asayish only operates inside SDF and under the umbrella of the Syrian Democratic Council, were you have proves of the contrary? They are a cohesive and disciplined militia more than the Syrian Army!!! But agree with put all the information about the chapter "Relations with the Syrian Government" in the main article Rojava–Syrian government relations because is more complete and is not dubious or doubtful!!! Best regards. Geosapiens (talk) 12:37, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
- Are there any sources on Asayish operating under the SDF? Every video of clashes involving the Asayish doesn't show the SDF flag nor does the SDF media mention it. The SDF is an umbrella coalition of allied groups, not a "cohesive and disciplined militia". The SDF doesn't operate in al-Qamishli, but SDF members do, for the same reason that Fatah Halab doesn't operate in Idlib despite that FH members operate in Idlib. Editor abcdef (talk) 05:32, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
Orphaned references in Syrian Democratic Forces
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Syrian Democratic Forces's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "vice":
- From Israeli–Syrian ceasefire line incidents during the Syrian Civil War: [2]
- From Qamishli clashes (April 2016): "Qamishli Ceasefire Gives Kurds More Territory in Northern Syria | VICE News". VICE News. Retrieved 18 May 2016.
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT⚡ 11:49, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
External links modified
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- Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20151124065233/http://www.mcclatchydc.com:80/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article40532349.html to http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/nation-world/world/middle-east/article40532349.html
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Listing militias as allegedly "Kurd" or "Arab" in the box, integrity of meta-groups (re: Jabhat al-Akrad)
I have always been highly sceptical with listing militias ethnically as "Kurd" or "Arab" in the box. At least I could change it to "mainly Kurd" and "mainly Arab" some days ago to make it more realistic. However, as I had now added the two most prominent sub-groups of the Army of Revolutionaries (third largest SDF component after YPG/YPJ and Shammer), one co-editor moved Jabhat al-Akrad away from its place up into the "mainly Kurd" section. Technically-ethnically probably correct, I would suggest. However, does it really make sense to follow this ethnic approach in general? Jabhat al-Akrad's sister group in the Army of Revolutionaries, the Northern Sun Battalion, might well be pretty much 50/50 Arab/Kurd. Shouldn't we just further soften these ethnic categorizations, in order to keep the integrity of meta-groups in the presentation intact? What sense does it make to enforce this radical ethnic separation which people on the ground themselves apparently do not make? -- 2A1ZA (talk) 09:14, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
SDF allies and opponents
I'm a bit confused. Recent reports in media (apologize for not adding any source, but you could find some easily) indicate that Turkish army is now cooperating with the SDF against the YPG. Now, Turkey is counted as the SDF opponent. The YPG is virtually part of the SDF. Also, the SAA (meaning, Syrian government forces) are not mentioned as opponents or allies of the SDF. So, I would thank to anyone who can clarify who are the SDF allies and opponents today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.117.215.100 (talk) 09:33, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
- Turkey cooperates with rebel groups such as the Sham Legion against the SDF in Jarabulus and have bombed SDF positions multiple times. The YPG is a firm and dominating member of the YPG. I don't know where did you get the cooperating with the SDF against the YPG from. Editor abcdef (talk) 06:16, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
"Neutrality flag" by an IP-editor without reason
Should this "Neutrality flag" by an IP-editor without reason be removed as abusive? -- 2A1ZA (talk) 19:01, 7 September 2016 (UTC)
- No, since the article contains evidence of POV violations. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 12:04, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- My point is that a "Neutrality flag" only makes sense with an elaboration on WHAT EXACTLY the elements alleged to be POV are. Just putting up a flag without any kind of elaboration simply make the process of addressing alleged POV issues in an article impossible. How would one ever remove a flag if no reasons for it being put up are given? -- 2A1ZA (talk) 15:34, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:POV#When_to_remove Removing the "Neutrality flag" now because even now no explanation is given. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 21:25, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
- The article is clearly biased in favour of the SDF and needs to be reviewed by persons specialised in the subject. -78.171.211.135 (talk) 21:39, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
- When to remove: This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. You may remove this template whenever any one of the following is true: (...) It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given.
- Removing the flag now, please do not put it up again without giving a discernable reason. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 00:43, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
I have now reported the abusive "POV" flagging and edit-warring about it by 213.74.186.109. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 13:26, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
- The IP is possibly using sockpuppets, watch out. --92slim (talk) 23:24, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
- I'm glad you reported your disagreement. Now they will see who's edit warring. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 08:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- Funny how people see others as they are. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 08:47, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
Correcting an edit by IP 213.74.186.109 which apparently sought to manipulate how a reader would understand the discussion on this talk page section. Correct chronology of comments now. -- 217.251.99.234 (talk) 21:58, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
Strength of the SDF
There seem to be serious contradictions regarding the actual strength of the SDF. The SDF-infobox puts their strength at 40.000 (including 30.000 YPG), while the article itself states: "Although estimates of the size of the SDF's component forces vary significantly, their total number at founding may already have been as high as 55,000.[54]" I also remember that someone recently lowered the strength of the SDF from 80.000 down to 40.000, just because that's the number used in the source.
However, if we look at the YPG article, we can see their estimated strength at 50.000. And according to the Infobox of the Syrian civil war, the strength of the YPG/YPJ is roughly 57.000-60.000. The Belligerent section puts the strength of the SDF at 55.000-80.000. (Though it uses the same source as the SDF-infobox)
How can this be possible? As it is right now, it's just plain confusing and misleading information shouldn't be present on Wikipedia. Maybe someone should search for a better source regarding the SDF strength (unless, of course, the strength of the YPG is grossly overstated)79.246.4.219 (talk) 08:54, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
- I am not a friend of quantifying fighting forces in general, and in particular such militia fighting forces. Just by the (never explicit) definition of what counts as a fighter, such numbers vary by multiples. And these "numbers of fighters" are not of much use anyway, because a bunch of untrained and not much motivated guys given old firearms are in a completely different league than trained units with good arms and high motivation. This obsession with in substance meaningless quantifications, be it of numbers of fighters as here or be it alleged shares of ethnic or religious composition of some area or group, in my humble opinion are a curse on the articles concerned. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 15:20, 26 September 2016 (UTC)
"Unbalanced" flag?
The same IP-editor who has several times put up the "POV" flag which every time was removed because he did not offer any reasoning (see talk page above) has now put up an "unbalanced" flag. Without offering any reasoning. Remove? -- 217.251.99.234 (talk) 21:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
- It appears that after 213.74.186.109 realized that he/she would face an IP block if continuing with abusive "POV" flagging without any stated reason, he/she now tries the same long-term abusive conduct by "unbalanced" flagging without any stated reason. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 08:22, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
- The article is obviously unbalanced and carries a heavy pro-Kurdish militia rhetoric: the article reads too much like an advertisement, containing "mission statement"-type claims that are worded and presented as if they were actual facts. Please stop your abusive behavior accusing me of not giving a reason. Thank you. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 07:20, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
- You are now for the first time ever making substantial statements. However, the first of them is incomprehensible to me, as I do not see any "pro-Kurdish militia rhetoric" (whatever exactly that is supposed to be) in the article, the term "Kurdish" or ethnic references in general only appear rarely in the article, and where they do, they do so in neutrally mentioning character/background of component groups. As to the second point, which you apparently copied from that other guy/gal in that other discussion, I'd repeat that you should seek to improve formulation of the concrete sentences/paragraphs which you find overly "mission statement" like, or start a descussion on the talk page on how to improve them. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 10:16, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
- Are you implying the YPG are non-Kurdish militia? If so you are either pretending not to know, or you are ignorant of the facts in which case you are not sufficiently knowledgable on the topic and should not be contributing to the article. Perhaps you could show the same sensitivity as you request of others in places such as Talk:Turkish military intervention in Syria. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 12:29, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- Other than you, I am not entertaining ethnic/racist insinuations at all. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 14:13, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- @213.74.186.109 I understand what you are saying, but I only understand it from the perspective of the "Kurdophobic" mainstream media and public opinion in Turkey. Outside of Turkey, this perception simply does not exist. If you think that would be a good idea, then add a section "What its enemies think and say of the SDF" to the article, but there is no way that this entire article is re-written to reflect the Turkish perspective rather than the perspective of the rest of the world on issues. 91.61.71.101 (talk) 15:16, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- Please, no personal attacks. I understand you might be upset Mainz 05 beat Darmstadt 98 in the German League. Go red-whites! -213.74.186.109 (talk) 07:36, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
YPG dominates the SDF
We should note somewhere in the article that the YPG dominates the SDF. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 12:38, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- There is a quote in line with your comment on the YPG's role in the introduction. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 13:45, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- Update: While the paragraph concerned moved from introduction into the body of the article, at this point of time around half the article is concerned with the role of the YPG in the SDF. And in my humble opinion very comprehensive, authentic and sincere so. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 23:21, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Upcoming Removal of "advertisment" flag unless it gets a talk page point what exactly it shall refer to
New flagging without a reasoning by the same IP-user. Now it comes as an "advertisment" flag. And you guess right: No hint whatsoever what element/aspect of the article it is supposed to refer to, so no discussion possible. Dear 213.74.186.109, please add a talk page point what element/aspect of the article it is supposed to refer to, to make a discussion possible, because otherwise this flag must be removed without discussion. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 13:54, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
@213.74.186.109 I removed the only element of the article I find arguably "advertisement-like" as well as the flag. Please understand that this article cannot calibrate "balance" around the public opinion and media of Turkey, which has a very unique view on the issues concerned. 91.61.71.101 (talk) 15:30, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
- Dear 91.61.71.101 (talk), 213.74.186.109 clearly stated "mission statement"-type claims above. Please understand that no article on Wikipedia is subject to any public opinion or media of any country, at least in theory. This is an open encyclopedia. The US also has very unique approaches on this subject that can change over night. Would you like to take the views of Russia, China, or perhaps Iran as your reference point? Let us keep it civil and balanced please. I am reverting your flag removal until 213.74.186.109 and 2A1ZA (talk) agree on a common point. Thank you. -78.171.152.206 (talk) 21:41, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
- Well, I am not even aware of any single concrete point that this one flag-making IP-editor disagrees with in the article. To my utmost regret, this IP-editor appears to have no interest whatsoever in a constructive, article-oriented discussion. The only point he/she ever mentioned was a perceived lack of elaboration on the role of the YPG in the SDF, and that point has been very much elaborated since. Nothing on this talk page gives any hint at a reason why this flag should be on the article. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 21:53, 15 October 2016 (UTC)
Removing "advertisement flag: After a week, still no resoning given by the flagging editor what exactly he thinks to be "mission-statement like claims" in the article. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 23:59, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
- The article includes claims worded and presented as if they were actual facts. It was pointed out here. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 12:13, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
- But you still do not want to tell us WHICH words or sentences in the article you consider to be "claims worded and presented as if they were actual facts", do you? It is most obvious that you simply want a flag on the article to taint the topic as such, and obstruct any possible discussion about what concrete issue you might have with the text of the article, because that would most clearly end the tainting flag you desire. Your conduct is abusive. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 12:28, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
As IP 213.74.186.109 keeps up the abusive flagging and edit warring about it, I have now reported it again and asked for semi-protection of this article. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 12:23, 24 October 2016 (UTC)
- Dear 2A1ZA (talk), the whole article reeks of bias. Where do you want me to start? It is not my job to pinpoint what needs to be changed or corrected. You obviously seem to be very interested in the topic and keep contributing here and there. I don't see a lack of effort from your side in arguing with other users and pushing your point of view. Please do your own research and cooperate to fix the article. And please stop making insinuations. It is not professional and is against Wikipedia rules of conduct. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 05:57, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
- I do not think that "the whole article reeks of bias", but that is not the point here anyway. You openly say now that you intentionally abuse an "advertisement" flag to try to taint an article which you find "biased". If you do not want other editors to conclude that you damage Wikipedia with abusive conduct because you simply dislike the topic of an article, you should rally come forward with concrete criticism of elements of the article, rather than going on with edit warring for a flag which you now yourself admit as intentionally abusive. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 10:30, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
- You are definitely taking 213.74.186.109 (talk) out of context and twisting what the user is trying to say. You might pretend not to understand but others clearly understand what's going on. The article is problematic, that is for sure. Your contributions are definitely reeking of bias and a strong POV. Worse than that, you have little respect for the views of others. -78.171.182.10 (talk) 18:18, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
- I have huge respect for the views of others, whenever those views are sincerely communicated. -- 2A1ZA (talk) 13:36, 19 November 2016 (UTC)
Incessant disruptiver behaviour
Hello all, User:2A1ZA is at it again with his incessant abusive behaviour. Please take note. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 12:07, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- An extremely partisan agitation article in the Erdogan government mouthpiece Daily Sabah certainly is not a proper source for what the SDF thinks or says, and the paragraph you added is pretty much off-topic for the section in what it says. I will not immediately delete again for now, as I do not share your political activist passion for edit-warring, but I will certainly replace it with a proper encyclopedic paragraph on the ongoing SDF-coalition cooperation in the Raqqa offensive (if not somebody else does before me). -- 2A1ZA (talk) 12:39, 24 November 2016 (UTC)
- Look who's talking... What do you say about the director of Amsterdam-based ANF "news" outlet being arrested in Belgium? -213.74.186.109 (talk) 05:12, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
The myth of the PYD as an effective force against Daesh
The myth that the PYD is the only force able to effectively deal with Daesh has gone up in smoke as the Turkish Armed Forces has demonstrated it is way more capable of eliminating terrorist targets if the need arises. It is clear now that the PYD is no match for ISIS when it comes to hard battles. The PYD's sole aim is to use American weapons to grab Arab and Turkmen land in northern Syria. This information should replace or be added next to the pertinent paragraphs in the article. -213.74.186.109 (talk) 05:09, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
- Please take this somewhere else. This article is about the Syrian Democratic Forces and not the "PYD" which is not even an armed group. Also you have provided no sources at all on this topic. Wikipedia is not a place to spread your unsourced political opinions. Editor abcdef (talk) 00:27, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
This is nonsense. 2003:77:4F14:1172:1D60:4420:778F:ECFD (talk) 10:54, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Sub-headings
What's wrong with having more sub-headings? Alfie Gandon (talk) 21:02, 5 February 2017 (UTC)
Recent edits
An user insert this info to article about manpower. I have read the source (Reuters) and there is clearly nothing about "manpower" in the source. Additionally, The Nation is not a proper source (a politically motivated magazine claiming YPG was organized by Qasem Suleimani and Assad "regime"). Can someone fix these edits? 79.137.76.41 (talk) 08:21, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
Criticism
The SDF is seen by Turkey to be affiliated with the PKK and being the Syrian front of the PKK, since the YPG has ties.[1] Arab elements withtin the SDF also refuse to fight against Turkey.[2] Perhaps this info should be added in a subsection under Criticism. Wikisiki999 (talk) 06:02, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- Welcome to your first day of wikipedia editing Wikisiki999! These claims are only made by Daily Sabah - a propaganda outlet for the Turkish government and the ruling Justice and Development Party and Yeni Şafak a conservative Turkish daily newspaper ... known for its hardline support of president Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and the AKP. Batternut (talk) 09:18, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
- Perhaps you would like a left wing news like the Hurriyet Daily News, opponents of the ruling AK Party and President Erdogan. Will that satisfy you? Shall we disregard all the left wing news of the US since they are supporters of the Democratic Party and President Obama and are now blatant critics of President Trump? Or or you trying to say Fox News has no place as a source in Wikipedia? Please clarify your argument. Anyway, thank you for your professional approach. 176.33.80.23 (talk) 15:12, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
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