Talk:Charles R. Forbes
![]() | Charles R. Forbes has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
|
![]() | Biography: Military / Politics and Government GA‑class | ||||||||||||
|
![]() | United States: Government GA‑class Low‑importance | ||||||||||||
|
Publisher
Was Charles R. Forbes related to the publisher?
GA Review
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Charles R. Forbes/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: ...comments? ~BFizz 18:54, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
I plan to gradually review this article, devoting around 20 minutes a day until I am thoroughly satisfied with the review. I will post thoughts and portions of my review incrementally every few days. I expect this will take somewhere between 2 to 4 weeks, during which time I encourage the continued improvement of the article (but no super-big changes, please). ...comments? ~BFizz 18:54, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
First thoughts
I will obviously conduct a much more thorough review over time, but after my first read I have the following thoughts regarding the GA criteria.
- Well-written - Mostly yes. There are a few instances where the possessive is intended, but no apostrophe is used. According to MOS:POSS, I beleive Forbes' is the correct way to indicate the possessive in this case. One other issue I have with the writing style is that nearly every sentence begins with "Forbes". Some variety would be nice. The first intro paragraph can use "he" instead of "Forbes" for a couple more sentences than it currently does.
- Factually accurate and reliable - looks pretty good. I'll have to dig into the sources to make sure they cover the assertions made.
- Broad in its coverage - also looks pretty good. Again, I'll have to check sources to see if they reveal any holes in this article.
- Neutral - pretty much. There were a couple sentences that seemed biased; I'll definitely look into this.
- Stable - definitely. Looks like there is one primary editor recently, with very few changes by other editors. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- Illustrated - Looks good on the surface. I'll dig through the alt text and copyright stuff later to make sure it's up to snuff.
Overall, things are looking good for this article so far. Remember, this is not my complete review, but is simply a quick check for any glaring problems (there were none). More in-depth review to come soon! Feel free to comment, and especially feel free to let me know if you've addressed any issues that I bring up. ...comments? ~BFizz 19:25, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
- I edited this article and am willing to make any neccessary changes. I used newspaper sources since there are not any Charles R. Forbes biographers. He was also pretty much forgotten after his jail term ended. His life is interesting in that he was a Scottish immigrant rising to the appointment of the first Veterans Bureau director. He went from the height of being President Harding's favorite to relative obscurity, due primarily to his desire for wealth by illicit transactions, drinking, and womanizing. One author called Forbes both a hero and a crook. Cmguy777 (talk) 04:30, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
- I'm re-reading the Wikipedia policy pages for each of these topics, which is why my review will take a long time. It's my first review so I want to solidify the policies and guidelines in my mind. ...comments? ~BFizz 18:37, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
Well-written
(a) the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct
Yep.
(b) it complies with the manual of style guidelines for the following
Looks good.
Done I'd suggest removing the phrase "full of controversy" from the lead second paragraph, and simply state that his tenure was characterized by scandal etc.
Mostly good. A few non-mandatory suggestions:
Done Consider re-arranging Seattle and Tacoma images to be at the beginning of their relevant sections (respectively "Pacific Northwest and Hawaii" and "Campaigned for Harding", if I'm not mistaken)
DoneThere's no guideline that I can find for this, but I'd suggest re-wording the section titles. Some use a past tense or past-participle form, like "Resigned office". For consistency, it would be better to choose a noun (or nouns) for each section. For example, you could change "Resigned office" to "Resignation", "Released from prison" to "Release from prison", and likewise address "campaigned", "neglected", "appointed", etc.
Probably OK
Fixed - great - "...had a great influence over Harding..."
- (this fix seems like a step backwards) accused - "Forbes...was accused of selling..."
Fixed - deny - "Forbes continued to deny any involvement in illegal activities."
Maybe need fixing
- notable - "He served notably overseas in France..." - clarify wording
- reveal - "The Senate investigation revealed Forbes had..."
- claim - a few instances; see WP:CLAIM for guidance
- Disregard - resting place - This is in the template used, which is odd, since WP:EUPHEMISM discourages its use.
Probably need fixing
Fixed - remarkable - "This was a remarkable amount..." - editorialization, but not entirely bad
Fixed - research has shown - "it was estimated that he embezzled $225 million..." - it's best to make explicit in the prose who made this estimation
- alleged - policy states "Alleged and accused are appropriate when wrongdoing is asserted but undetermined, such as with people on trial for crimes. When alleged or accused are used, ensure that the source of the accusation is clear." (emphasis mine)
- "Forbes and his contractor cronies allegedly indulged in parties and drinking." -
Fixed - also: "cronies" feels like POV
Fixed - "Allegedly, Forbes had various affairs..."
Fixed - "Forbes assistant in Washington D.C., Charles F. Cramer, who was allegedly also involved with Veteran Bureau scandals, committed suicide in 1923." - also: this seems to suggest that he committed suicide because of his involvement. If so, then state explicitly. If not, then consider removing this sentence.
Fixed - "[image caption] Drake Hotel in Chicago where Forbes allegedly played craps and took a $5,000 bribe." - isn't this considered a fact, and not just 'alleged'?
- "Forbes and his contractor cronies allegedly indulged in parties and drinking." -
This article does not cover a fictional topic. (guideline not applicable)
No lists incorporated. Looks good.
Factually accurate and verifiable
(a) references section
- it provides references to all sources of information in the section(s) dedicated to the attribution of these sources according to the guide to layout
The layout for "Notes" and "Works Cited" is good. The use of citation templates in these sections also looks good. ...comments? ~BFizz 23:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
(b) in-line citations
- it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines
Overall, I am satisfied that the sources do support the material. I've spot checked several Privileged Character references, and a few others. I have one suggestion:
- In the second paragraph of the "Veterans' Bureau tenure" section, there are several "according to ___" statements. Then at the end of the paragraph are all of the references lumped together. For the convenience of the reader, it would be better to put each reference right after the sentence to which it applies. This is convenient in general, but especially useful to verify that the "according to ___" statements are legitimate.
- Related cases where this is important are most quoted phrases. A good example is "dashing playboy". A few phrases that should have the reference directly after:
- known as "Joy-Rides"
- reasons that Congress called "split hairs"
- "as a dog would a rat"
This does not apply to the New York World article section, where it is obvious which source is referred to. ...comments? ~BFizz 03:04, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
(c) it contains no original research
I am satisfied that this article is solidly based on statements from reliable sources. ...comments? ~BFizz 03:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Broad in its coverage
(a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic
This is mostly good. There is one thing I noticed that I think should be in the article:
- Date/location of marriage, and date/location of the birth of children, and maybe a small bit of information about the background/notability of his (later ex-)wife and child(ren). Currently, there is only the sentence: He got married in Seattle to his wife Katherine and started a family having one daughter, Marcia - the grammar here is also a little clumsy. Expand this information a tiny bit. What was Katherine's maiden name? Where was she from? How did they meet? Did they have a long courtship? Did they have any other children? Did they deliberately only have one child? Please answer most of these questions, but keep it very brief. Or if information isn't available, that's fine; don't include it.
...comments? ~BFizz 03:20, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
(b) summary style
- it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail
Yep. ...comments? ~BFizz 03:20, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
- it represents viewpoints fairly and without bias
As far as I can tell, the information is presented in a very neutral way. Well done. CMguy's responsiveness to my previous assessment of words to avoid has removed the small points of concern that arose in my preliminary review.
Stable
- it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute
Illustrated, if possible, by images
(a) copyright
- images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content
- File:Cforbes.jpg - good.
- File:Pioneer_square.jpg - good.
- File:Drake_Hotel_Chicago_postcard_1920.jpg - good.
- File:Leavenworth-prison.jpg - good.
No problems here. ...comments? ~BFizz 00:32, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
(b) captions and relevance
- images are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions
All look great.
Done The only thing I would consider changing is the "credits" on the Pioneer Square and Drake Hotel captions. According to WP:CREDITS, we generally don't credit the photographer/painter in an image's caption; however, the date information is useful to put the pictures in context. No big deal either way. ...comments? ~BFizz 00:43, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Conclusion of review
✓ Pass
Although I have left a few very recent suggestions which have not yet been implemented, I consider them to be minor, and have no hesitation in granting Good Article status whether or not they are addressed.
A few final suggestions for further improvement of this Good Article:
- Try using WP:NAMEDREFS for when the same reference (same publication, same page) is used in different places.
- Seek online copies of the old publications. Some may be in the public domain; seek help at WikiSource if they are not already freely available online.
- The lede's final sentence feels like 2 sentences rammed into one. Released 8 months later he died in 1952. Try rewording that for clarity.
...comments? ~BFizz 03:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Tacoma postcard and caption
Removed from article:
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/PostcardTacomaWAPacificAveNorthFrom13thStCirca1907.jpg/250px-PostcardTacomaWAPacificAveNorthFrom13thStCirca1907.jpg)
Charles F. Cramer sentence
Removed from article: Forbes assistant in Washington D.C., Charles F. Cramer, who was allegedly also involved with Veteran Bureau scandals, committed suicide in 1923.
Prisoner Number sentence
The statement "Forbes was prisoner number 25021" does not seem an important fact to include in a biography. If it is relevant for some reason, that reason should be added. Otherwise, the statement should be removed.
CoderKen (talk) 00:40, 26 April 2017 (UTC)
External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Charles R. Forbes. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080926010636/http://www1.va.gov:80/opa/feature/history/history2.asp to http://www1.va.gov/opa/feature/history/history2.asp
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
- If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
- If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.
Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 07:04, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
- Wikipedia good articles
- History good articles
- GA-Class biography articles
- GA-Class biography (military) articles
- Low-importance biography (military) articles
- Military biography work group articles
- GA-Class biography (politics and government) articles
- Low-importance biography (politics and government) articles
- Politics and government work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- GA-Class United States articles
- Low-importance United States articles
- GA-Class United States articles of Low-importance
- GA-Class United States Government articles
- Low-importance United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States Government articles
- WikiProject United States articles