User talk:Seberle

Welcome!

Hello, Seberle, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! WhatamIdoing (talk) 01:33, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Continuous random variable

This edit is troubling. It is plainly false that if a random variable has infinitely many possible values, then the probability of any of those value is zero. For the Poisson distribution or the negative binomial distribution, the set of possible values is {0,1,2,3,...}, which is infinite, and the probability of each value is positive.

There are two conflicting definitions of continuous probability distribution (on the real line). One says only that the cdf is continuous. That's the same as saying the probability of any individual value is zero. The other says there's a probability density function, and that says more than just that the cdf is continuous. The Cantor distribution is continuous in the former sense, but not in the latter. Michael Hardy (talk) 13:37, 17 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Zarma

Thank you so much! Chris (クリス • フィッチュ) (talk) 13:50, 25 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

math wars

If you want to edit, fine, but don't wholesale eliminte an entire section leaving out major points, including a reference to the TERC study which purports NOT teaching subtraction gives better results. The major objection is that TERC and Connected leave out standard methods entirely, or at least descriptions and solved examples, and you should not just toss that out. Have you actually seen TERC or CM in person? Do you have any idea how awful Mathland was? Bachcell (talk) 04:37, 22 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We seem to have been editing the same article at the same time. I am not a heavy Wikipedia editor, so this was a first for me! When combining our two edits, I did not include your paragraphs because some parts were not correct, the language was not NPOV and I was not prepared to try to edit it down to an acceptable paragraph. Please consider including brief summaries of facts rather than arguments. Remember, this is not a debate. This is an encyclopedia article reporting on a public debate from a NPOV.

Yes, I've seen CM. I happen to think it is quite good. But I also understand the research behind it and I understand why many parents and some teachers do not. The Standards are, in fact, poorly understood by the public for the simple reason that they are unfamiliar with much of the research that has informed the Standards. But I will not include any defense of CM in the article, or take sides. I will limit myself to just what public debate has been. It makes no difference how bad or good Mathland is. For Wikipedia we are just reporting on a social phenomenon.

If you do not understand both sides of this debate - if you do not understand, for example, the research underlying CM - please consider not contributing to this article. If you do decide to edit, please keep the language NPOV. --seberle (talk) 12:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:Principles and Standards for School Mathematics

Hi, don't know if it was by accident or design but you remove a lot of the past content from Talk:Principles and Standards for School Mathematics with your latest edit. Per WP:TALKCOND we tend not to delete past content from talk pages, as it might be of use at some point. I've restored the past discussions.--Salix (talk): 20:55, 4 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Education and math

Let's discuss this on the talk page. Kiefer.Wolfowitz 13:38, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I should have written "qualitative methods" rather than "anecdotal methods"---a snide comment by a colleague must have stuck in my brain. :)

Cheers, Kiefer.Wolfowitz 14:14, 25 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Specific University Curricula

I noticed that Core Curriculum (Columbia College), a program for undergraduates at Columbia University very similar to the Common Core at the University of Chicago, was in the category Category:Specific University Curricula. Accordingly, I felt that Common Core should also be in that category. (The Common Core is, in fact, a university curriculum; it is mandatory for all undergraduates at the University of Chicago.) Supernaturalist (talk) 02:00, 14 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Tessellation

Hi Seberle, good to meet you.

I think we're slightly editing at cross purposes on the tilings, so I'd like to explain quickly my concerns.

Firstly I guess we agree that the article seriously needs some work to make it clear, accurate, good to read and properly cited. It has been none of those things and it's a deal better now, and I'm glad you feel like helping out.

Secondly, I've tried hard to remove WP:OR whether intensely mathematical or not when there seemed no hope of finding citations and the original editors had long gone. So I do hope we won't add back any equivalent stuff.

Thirdly, I understand that mathematical types like things to be well-defined, seems reasonable in their case. Unfortunately, "definitions" in English text quickly deteriorate into WP:DICDEF - dictionary definitions - which are quite rightly not allowed - this is not a dictionary. I changed "Definitions" into "Overview" to say "this is a high-level eagle's eye view of the whole article", not a piece of mathematical definition-setting. So, er, I was hoping it wouldn't be changed back... if you see what I mean.

To sum up, we need explanation, decent images, references that the average joe has a reasonable chance of being able to look up, and then to understand, and not too much maths or definitions. I'd like to think the article was moving in the former direction, not the latter. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:17, 24 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Chiswick, that's fine by me. I'd much rather see an overview section than a list of definitions. At the moment, it is really just a list of definitions, so I put the title back. You are right, though and I agree. Maybe if we leave the subtitle at "Overview" we can eventually move the section toward a true overview section. --seberle (talk) 05:37, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'm either CC or Chiswick Chap, as Chiswick is a place! Very glad you agree, and hope we can make the article into something really beautiful - it's a great subject. Patterns in nature is a Good Article; I'd love to see Symmetry and Tessellations up there too. All the best - Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:41, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Very cool, CC. Sorry about your name; I wrote early this morning and was half asleep! Nice to know someone friendly here. I sometimes run into confrontational types. I agree that the Tessellation article is in need of a lot of work, but headed in the right direction. Your edits have looked good. My biggest beef is still the opening sentence, which defines a tessellation as a process rather than a mathematical object. But I haven't been able to get others to agree and I always hesitate to change a lead sentence without some consensus. I'll take a look at Patterns in nature soon! seberle (talk) 13:04, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Super, the article is starting to look organized. Thanks for your additions, which are starting to make the math intelligible ... however we do have a couple of places that need citations. Who introduced the vertex notation, for instance? Needs a ref. Thanks as always --- Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:47, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure of the history of the vertex configuration notation, but Grünbaum & Shephard (1987) is the standard reference for most things concerning tessellations. --seberle (talk) 15:08, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm, but we need to cite the statement made, even if not to provide a history (which would be best, probably). The choices are

cite a paper that at least mentions what is stated (we hardly ever give page refs unless the papers are hugely long)
cite a book, giving a page reference
cite a decent website that explains the statement made
remove the statement.

Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:46, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. Don't have the book, just my notes. (G&S have been promising a 2nd edition for years and I'm waiting for that. I'm not up to making a library run just for a page number.) I could cite an article (there are many--the notation is standard). Isn't Wikipedia's own article on vertex configuration notation sufficient?

We can't rely on other articles, for the mathematical reason of ... recursion. If we relied on the unquestioned splendour of vertex configuration, it could rely on the unquestioned excellence of its links to mathematics and, er, tessellation, and hey presto, we have a proven, self-consistent system of unshakeably useless references! Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:54, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

We can't rely on the Vertex configuration article to contain the proper reference for the vertex configuration notation? Seems odd, but it turns out you're right. The Vertex configuration article just has a general reference and no page number. So do I go with an article, or do we wait until someone finds the page number of G&S? The latter is preferable, the former is more likely to be done soon. --seberle (talk) 12:55, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is a multi-threaded discussion?! OK, so there's a concrete example - we'd hope to rely on the VC article but there's no guarantee, "Wikipedia is not a reliable source" - according to our own policies, by the way. The thing isn't an either/or choice; by all means link to the article, but don't hope to rely on it, as it is not proof of WP:notability nor of WP:verifiability. So best to wait for the page to be looked up (or try to google for it). Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:02, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Ok. I know it's not in Google Books. I actually need to go check it out for some other non-Wikipedia questions, so I'll try to get around to eventually. There is no "the article," but there are many articles and websites that reference it. I agree G&S would be best. --seberle (talk) 02:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I love the way the article is becoming both user friendly and mathematically accurate. Thanks! This seems to be unfortunately rare with Wikipedia articles, especially math articles. --seberle (talk) 21:21, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, me too. It's rare because dialogue, analysis, teamwork, looking up decent sources, and careful word-crafting are harder than rushing about swapping "–" for "-" in a thousand places (miaouuuw). Great when it works, though. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:54, 28 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Gallery amidships in Tessellation

Hi Seberle, I'm afraid I think the gallery in the middle of T. breaks up the article, and with the images to left and right immediately afterwards, looks a bit of a mess, if I may speak plainly. A small gallery of examples right at the end is one thing; an overflowing one in the middle quite another. Maybe we could put it back? I think we will need to be very selective in the choice of examples and the way they are grouped to make it feel neat and tidy. At the moment it feels like a jumble. Sorry to say it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:01, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Don't feel sorry. I was feeling the same way. But I really would like to see some examples to highlight the definitions. (I need to add a few more that I'll probably have to draw myself.) But I really don't like the gallery format. It does look messy. And just having a string of illustrations down the side would be an awful solution. I was going to poke around and see what other formats are available on Wikipedia, but perhaps you know? I really like the way Mathematics did their examples. Very nice. What do you think? Or another idea would be to make a table of definitions with one column terms, one column definitions and one column a pictorial example, but I think that might look too heavy. --seberle (talk) 14:44, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks - I pretty much agree. There isn't really a solution of any elegance in a standard article. If there are a lot of images, one can make a pretty page on Commons and point to that - but few readers seem to go. One can tuck a gallery at the end: not too wonderful, unless the images are very much of a piece (as they are at the end of Bewick's Birds, for instance, when the format works elegantly, I think). One can add a table with images in a column as you say: this is best in a list, like List of camouflage methods, one of my better efforts, which shows that multiple columns of images are possible for special purposes. Otherwise, having a lot of images is usually a disaster. I kind of got away with it in patterns in nature, but at this distance in time from my own work, even that is starting to look kinda weird ... such is life. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:18, 1 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

File permission problem with File:Game of dili in Niger 2014.jpg

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ArbCom elections are now open!

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Math wars

I reverted most of your recent edit. I tried to leave detailed edit summaries. Please leave a message on my talk page or on the article's talk page if you have questions. Thank you. Magnolia677 (talk) 04:54, 6 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Rules of Go

I've reverted your edit. The article is organized to first present rules equivalent to those of Tromp-Taylor, which require the game to be played out, and then to discuss other sets of rules by making comparisons with Tromp-Taylor's. (Please see the sources in the article, "Logical Rules" and the rules by James Davies.)

This is preferable for a number of reasons, not least of which is that "dead" is very difficult to define accurately. Saying that they "would inevitably be captured if the game continued" is not precise enough, in part because it raises the issue of what else might happen on the board if the players continued to play. It also contradicts the end-of-game rule, which says the game ends when both players pass consecutively. If they continue to play, then when does the game really end? Even if the players agree on the outcome, they are agreeing on the outcome *if* the game were continued according to a certain set of rules. What rules are those? Those need to be stated first, before you can mention rules intended to speed up the end of the game.

If you look at the history of the article, you'll see that the definition of "dead" was introduced relatively recently. Please note where the introduction states "This article first presents a simple set of rules which are, except for wording, identical to those usually referred to as the Tromp–Taylor Rules, themselves close in most essential respects to the Chinese rules." And this too:

"The basic rules require the players to "play the game out" entirely, capturing all dead stones in normal play. Virtually all rulesets used in practice provide some mechanism that allows players to begin scoring the game before the final position (the one used to score the game) has been reached. In some cases, this is merely a convenience intended to save time. In others, it may be an essential feature of the game. In any case, explaining these rules might obscure the nature of the game somewhat for a person unfamiliar with it. See § Counting phase below." 45.3.27.150 (talk) 08:09, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]