Talk:Tyagi

Arbitrary heading

This articles cannot be merged with Bhumihars. Tyagi is a more wide and common subcaste than bhumihar. Nobody in India or elsewhere in the world use Bhumihar as there surname. But the surname Tyagi is most common in westeren Utter Pardesh, Delhi, Haryana and Easteren Rajasthan. Therefore Tyagi is not supposed to be merged with Bhumihar.

Tyagi origination

The origination of tyagi’s can be found in the documents of the bhaats. Bhats are those guy who maintain record family history and according to them tyagi are descendents of lord parshuram and according to mythology there is belief that lord parshuram had asked the bhargav’s not to take bhiksha, those who obeyed his words and they left taking bhiksha, they are called the tyagi’s and the other rest of followers are called shrama’s, pandey’s, mishra’s and other brahmin cast.

actually there believed to be many castes of the same kind across north india like tyagi in west up & delhi, mohiyals in punjab, bhumihars in bihar and east up, desai in gujrat and maharastra, galab in up and rajasthan. there are independent organisations working for the benefit and welfare of these caste and one umbrella organisation also seems to exist.

I also agree to the point mentioned above that TYAGI should not be merged with Bhumihaar. Thanks and Regrads, Anugrah atreya 12:18, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

13:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)~

Big NO for this merger. Though both the castes are quite similar and emotionally close but they are very unique in many aspects so both should be covered under separate pages.

Ruchin Tyagi

Tyagis are a subtype of Bhumihaar that predominantly live in Western UP. TT 04:11, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with this post to include in Tyagi wikki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vikashtyagi (talk • contribs) 14:51, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Right only name differs but bhumihar and tyagi means the same and it should be also addressed same. Tyagiland (talk) 02:16, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

Wikification

I went ahead and Wikified the content of the article and tried to clean up/organize its content. If there are any factual errors, please advise. The format of the article before was a bit chaotic. TT 04:44, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I came back and tried to add more concrete references and really pinpoint the references as best I could. Still not entirely familiar with Wikipedia, so if any comments or feedback would be great. Chantoke TT 20:10, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

District Gazetteer and Taga vs Tyagi

the article now looks ok but there is need for lot of research on the issue.

It is well known fact at least among older population that word “taga” is the name which the caste used till very recently. In older records of the raj lot of references are found to the word”taga” (plural- tagas). Two creditable references are given as under

Quote (from the “ DISTRICT – MUZAFFARNAGAR- DISTRICT GAZEETEER- CHAPTER III THE PEOPLE-CENSUS OF 1901)210.18.119.115 07:24, 25 April 2007 (UTC) “TAGAS The Tagas, though not found in anything approaching the numbers attained in Meerut and Saharanpur, are still fairly numerous in this district, being represented at the last census by 10,448 persons. They claim to be a branch of Brahrmans and explain their position as analogous to that of the Bhuimhars of the eastern districts, but who they really are is a matter of conjecture. Sir H. M. Elliott believed the word Taga to be a corruption of Takka, which he considered to be the name of a race akin to the Scythians. Whether this be so or not, it is quite incredible that the Tagas, who are only found in any numbers in the Meerut and Rohilkhand divisions, should have come from Gaur. in Bengal, although this is the tradition of the Tagas themselves. At any rate, in this district they undoubtedly came from the west and were pressed by the Jats and Gujars into the northern and eastern tracts. They are now a purely agricultural clan and are good and industrious cultivators, but not equal to the Jats. Numbers of them were converted to Islam in the time of Aurangzeb, and at the present time there are 7,510 Muhammadan Tagas in this district. There are several subdivisions of the castes. The Bachas or Pachauliyan Tagas have a compact settlement known as tbe Bahira, which is said to have originally consisted of twelve villages in eastern Shikarpur. The Bikwan Tagas, said to have come from Bikanir, also claim to have originally held twelve villages; they are now chiefly found in Pur Chhapar. The Gandran clan is found in Budhana ; the Nimdan and Bhardwar in Charthawal; and the Rasdan in Thana Bhawan. At the present time half the Tagas are found in the Muzaffarnagar tahsil and most of the rest in Budhana. They are very considerable landholders, and at the time of Mr. Miller's settlement were in possession of 53,497 acres, or about five per cent, of the whole district. There are no large landowners among them, their villages being all held in coparcenary tenure.” UNQUOTE210.18.119.115 07:24, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

Bisdes this other reference which I came across is in wikipedia only while describing Muslim invader “Taimoor lane” from samarkand in central asia in 14 th century. After he and his massive army plundered delhi and adjoining areas, there was formed a resistance army comprising of people from all the 36 caste residing in the area between ganga and jamuna river and with the avowed purpose of saving desecration of holi city Haridwar town from the invading army. Among the caste represented on the commanders of “SARVA KHAP ARMY” were two “ “taga” commander UMRA TAGA being one of deputy general and “RAMPYARI TAGA” one of the ladies commander. (this is available on wikipedia " sarva khap" These two reference have proven historical value in an otherwise total mythological arguments. Further work needs to be done at least on these these sources as these refers to a very rich work of other historian and in the process only historical truth can be unearthed as to how the caste evolved over the centuries.

sudhir tyagi (sudhir.tyagi@sbi.co.in) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.18.30.215 (talk) 07:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC).

---

I appreciate your references. Do you have any links to the District Gazetteer text, or an exact reproduction of its literature. While I appreciate your taking the time to quote it in your response, it seems that there are a number of typos and I would like to see the original text, or at least an accurate reproduction of what is written before adding anything to the Wiki. Also, when you say the connection between Taga and Tyagi "is well known" among older people, to whom exactly are you referring? That is to say, my father is a 58 year old Tyagi, and he is not aware of the connection. Tongue in cheek aside, I am a little reluctant to add the connection without knowing its source. I did look up the District Gazetteer and created a new entry on Wikipedia for international audiences unfamiliar with its origins. If you have any more insight, I would love to hear it. Chantoke 24.152.166.156 17:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Timur the Lame

I had some time today and I was curious so I went ahead and looked into your District Gazetteer reference. I believe that your reference to "Taimoor Lane" is actually in regard to Timur the Lame, a bloodthirsty Muslim general who killed around one million people in Delhi in the 14th century. Tyagis were involved in the resistance to Timur in the holy city of Haridwar, trying to protect it from rape and plunder during his crusade. I want to thank you for enlightening me about this important part of the surname's history. I had no idea Tyagis had such a tumultuous and noble past. Chantoke TT 22:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Taga- Tyagi connection

though tyagi's are a predominantly farmer community and it is a fact that rarely you will find a tyagi who does nt owned agricultural land. vast majority of tyagi still lives in villages of saharanpur, muzaffarnagar, meerut, gaziabad, noida, bulanadshahar bijnor moradabad distt of up, haridwar distt of now uttaranchal, sonipat, panipat and gurgaon distt of haryana and many urbanised village of delhi and there thay are known as taga, tagga or tagge.not only other rural caste people staying close to tyagi's villages but our own people still called themselves as "taga". off late there may be a portion of tyagi population which is not in a position to be in touch with their rural roots or for few generations staying at places where they can not be in touch with other tyagi people.

Right taga redefines tyagi. Tyagiland (talk) 02:21, 17 July 2017 (UTC)

timur the lame: about sarva khap army

khap is word which is normally associated with the divisions of people belonging to jat caste which dominate numerically the area beyond delhi between ganga and jamuna. jats along with gujar were the main contributors to sarva khap army which was named so to denote that it has the support of all strata to the society.

district gazetteer- muzaffarnagar

it is a site by distt administration of muzaffarnagar where they have done a good job by uploading the distt gazetteer, which a very reliable saurce of recent history. sudhir.tyagi@sbi.co.in

Who is Bhat?

Who is the "Bhat" mentioned in first line of Historical Origins? Lilaac (talk) 20:24, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

Hindu and Muslim Tyagis

Hi.. i have corrected the absolutely false and misleading statement that Tyagi's are both Hindu and muslims, since no proof, past or present points to that..

59.180.50.54 (talk) 20:47, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

This is totally untrue, and just a bizarre attempt at "cleansing" out reality. There are many refs on Hindu and Muslim Tyagis, and there was a totally credible ref right here. There is a complete article on Muslim Tyagis for Pete's sake! I am going to reverse this. --Hunnjazal (talk) 02:13, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Notable people

Please do not add to the list of notable people unless you can provide either a blue link to a relevant article on Wikipedia and/or a citation to a reliable source. Failure to do this means that an addition cannot be verified. Thanks. - Sitush (talk) 16:51, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Is this about a surname or a caste/community?

What a mess this article is. It goes wrong at the very first sentence, which says that it is about Tyagi, a surname. Soon after, other surnames are mentioned. Later on - in the migration section - still more are mentioned. So how can it be about a surname?

Either the article has totally lost its focus or the opening sentence should actually say something like "Tyagi is a caste whose origins lie in north India and in Pakistan." Please could someone clarify. - Sitush (talk) 16:22, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

Disappointed

I am disappointed by all the vandalism that has occurred with this article over the past two years since I first wrote it. It is time for a major clean up, and I may petition for a reversion to the earlier, referenced version.

In addition, there is no point in creating a separate Tyagi (Muslim) page, or deleting the referenced portions of this page without specifically addressing what was lacking about the references. These actions are essentially vandalism (see Wikipedia:Vandalism).

This article is about a surname, not an ethnic group. The ENTIRE history of the name has to be discussed WITH appropriate references.

If we were doing an article about the name 'Jackson', we would not only discuss Andrew Jackson and ignore Jesse Jackson and Michael Jackson, as this would be racist. Similarly, as there are both religious groups within the surname, both have to be discussed. I have also requested that this page be semi-protected as clearly it has become a target for vandals.

I have been working very hard at Wikipedia for a very long time, and I have very strongly believe in the message of this encyclopedia:

- We must follow Wikipedia guidelines. - All historical claims must be referenced. - Referenced sentences may not be removed without assessment of the reference.

Please feel free to discuss on my talk page. Parsh (talk) 10:11, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

No. Discuss it here, please, where everyone who has an interest can participate in a centralised fashion. - Sitush (talk) 10:13, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I just discussed it above. I am not prohibiting further discussion here. I encourage it. I also open my talk page up to anyone to reach me as well. This mess was created due to a lack of dialogue. Most of the edits were not discussed on the talk page. Again, Wikipedia guidelines must be followed. Parsh (talk) 10:21, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

No, you invited people to continue the discussion on your talk page, which is poor practice. Please could you provide a diff of the article at the point that you consider to have been its optimum. - Sitush (talk) 10:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

The intent of inviting users to my talk page was not to preclude a discussion here, it was to convey my openness to discussion. I will certainly be providing a new, referenced version of this article, as the degree of contention here will require more thorough research. More to the point, I believe the volume of new information here and interim edits and deletes need to be assessed first before a decision can be made on whether it can be reverted. This will require some time, but I will be happy to follow up. Parsh (talk) 10:36, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Merger Discussion

As Sitush very appropriately mentioned, there needs to be a merger discussion and someone removed the old one from 2010.

I believe there should be one Tyagi article with Hindu and Muslim subsections. Reasons for this are as below:

First reference: "Tyagi" by DT Mattheus --> www.amazon.com/gp/product/6136395681/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER|title=Tyagi

- Mattheus traces the historical origins of Tyagis to the first millenium BC, before the existence of Islam.

Second reference: Indias Changing Villages, p 16 by S.C. Dube -->Google books link --> http://books.google.com/books/about/India_s_Changing_Villages.html?id=a7HitkOMHTkC

"The Tyagi are an agricultural caste which claims to be priestly Brahmins. Literally the word Tyagi means 'those who have renounced', they trace the origin of their caste name to their having renounced three Brhamanical functions, viz. the study of vedas, functioning as priests, and acceptance of alms. Muslim Tyagis are converts from the times of Jehangir and Aurungzeb and are originally kin to their Hindu counterparts."

Please let me know what you think. Parsh (talk) 12:16, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Also, from Wikipedia policy page on merging:

Quote from Wikipedia policy page, two of the criteria for mergers are Overlap and Context. I have included their relevant sections from Wikipedia:Merging

Overlap: There are two or more pages on related subjects that have a large overlap. Wikipedia is not a dictionary; there does not need to be a separate entry for every concept in the universe. For example, "flammable" and "non-flammable" can both be explained in an article on flammability.

Context: If a short article requires the background material or context from a broader article in order for readers to understand it. For example, minor characters from works of fiction are generally covered in a "List of characters in <work>" article(and can be merged there); see also Wikipedia:Notability (fiction). :::::

I believe Muslim Tyagi satisfies both the criteria of Overlap and Context for a specific surname. The original article also has extensive point of view issues and unreferenced material which will be cleaned up during the merger, but I believe the point that there are two religions that have achieved significant cultural predominance within a single surname should be addressed. I also believe that this page should be semi-protected due to extensive editorializing. Please advise as to your thoughts, thanks. Parsh (talk) 12:42, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree that the articles should be merged. There really isn't much to be said of the Tyagi as a community and we can deal with religious differences in one place. - Sitush (talk) 11:19, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2016

115.248.157.193 (talk) 06:15, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

• Mukul Tyagi.Deputy Manager Onicra Credit rating Agency of india limited*

 Not done Your edit request is unclear here. I'm not really sure what you want done. Regards— MeowMoon (talk) 07:44, 31 August 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2016

"has led some Tyagis to claim" is simply mischievious as Taga / Tyagi brahmans are Aadi Gaud brahman group of Panch Gaud clans described in Hindu scriptures. Tyagi Gaud clans have clear lineage from the original Gaud Brahman villages and they are the most respected warrior brahmans since vedic period. 106.77.210.120 (talk) 16:38, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

• Note for patroller: I have had to refactor the comments of this anon. Their original series of edits was this. It is tangled up in a bunch of old threads and seems to refactor some of those. You may need to review for context, sorry. - Sitush (talk) 17:59, 21 September 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Andy W. (talk · ctb) 06:39, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 November 2016

2605:A000:1401:C1:F91E:9F95:F830:F50 (talk) 02:43, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

• Krishan Kumar Tyagi, Solution Architect( Computer Science )

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Also, that article does not exist. — JJMC89 (T·C) 05:08, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Prof yogesh kumar tyagi

Why even after adding link it showing red mark Yogu1711 (talk) 04:30, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

Don't you think university of Delhi(du) globally holds a reputed position nd it's vice chancellor should not me a notable person ..if u cam add Anil Singh vice-chancellor of Indraprastha university than how it's tough to add prof Yogesh Kumar Tyagi into the same category? Yogu1711 (talk) 20:22, 18 June 2017 (UTC)

Tags

I am tagging this article with-

• WP:COI- because the article is mostly being edited by the user Ambertyagi26 and as is suggested by the username itself (Amber Tyagi) that the user may be closely associated with the subject of the article.
• WP:POV- because the user always attempts to push his caste promotional POV. Any NPOV which is anti promotional is always deleted by him.
• original research- In such edits he consider less valuable what the sources suggest, instead he manipulates the facts as he wants these to be projected.--MahenSingha (Talk) 19:49, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Free advisers

Some free advisers remove the edits as they are bloody Kings. Tyagiland (talk) 06:46, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Sir repost the earlier details of tyagi as it was vey relevant Ch Rohit tyagi (talk) 07:42, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

If you can find reliable sources then information can be added. Raj-era sources are not reliable, nor are caste-affiliated websites; newspapers are poor for history. - Sitush (talk) 09:20, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Real information is not anywhere.

Where is the real information. It is not all info. Tyagiland (talk) 06:50, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 August 2017

Prakash Vir Shastri, former M.P. Tyagiaman (talk) 19:49, 25 August 2017 (UTC)