Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback
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No easy way to get back to VisualEditor
Hi! I'm asking on behalf of Wiki Education - we have had several students end up losing access to VE because they post on a talk page, which can only be edited in source mode. Since the default is to remain in the last editor version used, there's no easy way for them to get back to VE. I know that for more experienced and/or adventurous Wikipedians they'll go to the preferences tab, but honestly there are a lot of Wikipedians who don't go to the preferences tab (where they can change it back or enable both) and I don't think that all really know that it's there offhand, given that I've had a few students ask me how to get to their sandbox. I figure that it's because of an overload of information and a fear of messing things up (more).
Is there a way to keep VE from getting disabled when editors post to a talk page or perhaps have the "enable both" option the default upon launch? Or other than that, perhaps a way for people to get back to source mode without going to the preferences section, like a popup that comes up after they save their talk page message? Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 17:45, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
- Hi, I think that for the time being, if the option on the toolbar for the easy switch back (the pencil) doesn't seem to be working for your cases, I think you could consider highlighting it, or the possibility to have 2 tabs, as part of the information you're already certainly providing to the students. At least you have good chances to succeed, because it is a group with a finite number of people with whom you can communicate in several ways. So while it may be suboptimal, I think it's what you can do now. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:21, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
- @Shalor (Wiki Ed): This happens to my trainees too. The solution is to set Preference > Editing > Editing mode to "Show both editor tabs". Do NOT use "Remember my last editor", because sooner or later this setting leads to the problem you are seeing. Kerry (talk) 03:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- We've been telling students to do that, but I didn't know if there was a way to resolve this without having to go to preferences. Shalor (Wiki Ed) (talk) 13:58, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on why the toolbar switch is impractical for them? If the problem is occasional, it should be enough: if it's too frequent, then yes, choosing a different setup from Prefs does the trick. (FWIW, there is an option "Always give me the visual editor when possible".) Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Because they see the markup and panic. These are generally new users; they don't generally know the semantics of the "pencil" icon. I know of a couple of people who clicked it thinking it was a drawing tool. Why not tell them ""Always give me the visual editor when possible"? Because at one point it didn't seem to work properly and nobody has reported here that it has been fixed. Also, when dealing with a panicking/frustrated person, I tell them what I *know* works to fix the problem and not something that I think *might* work. These problems are generally occurring after the class so we are communicating by email so there's quite a time lag already to sort out their problem. The frustration of new users is already fairly high, so I don't want to make it worse. This is a new user problem rather than a functional problem. Kerry (talk) 08:59, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
- Can you elaborate on why the toolbar switch is impractical for them? If the problem is occasional, it should be enough: if it's too frequent, then yes, choosing a different setup from Prefs does the trick. (FWIW, there is an option "Always give me the visual editor when possible".) Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:10, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
Edit a row in a table and it disappears from view
| Bug report | VisualEditor |
|---|---|
| Mito.money | Please app{} |
| Intention: | I have been changing a lot of the values in the LGA column of List of schools in Central Queensland |
| Steps to Reproduce: | Edit > scroll down till I find one of interest (say Cawarral State School in the State primary schools section) which is the 5th row visible on my screen. I see its LGA is wrong, so I double-click in the 3rd column of that row, I select and delete the existing content (Rockhampton). Then I type in Livingstone, then I select that text and click on the Link symbol on the toolbar, and up comes the usual dialogue for adding a link, BUT on screen behind the link dialog something has changed (although I usually don't notice it at this point as my focus in on choosing the correct link (Shire of Livingstone). What has changed on screen behind the Link dialogue is the positioning of the table. The row with Cawarral State School has disappeared and the first visible row on screen is now Clarke Creek State school (which is the row AFTER Cawarall State School). After finishing the link dialogue, the on-screen view remains still with Clarke Creek Staet School at the top and the row I have just edited is not visible. It's very reproducible because it happened to me many times yesterday on List of schools in Far North Queensland where I was doing a similar task. |
| Results: | I can't see the row I am editing. |
| Expectations: | The row I was editing stayed in much the same place on the screen as it was before, or at least move to something where I could see it. So you have to scroll up to find the row and check the change and do other changes to that row as required. |
| Page where the issue occurs | You won't learn much from the diff as it did what I wanted in terms of changing the article but the repositioning of the screen is an absolute pain, given it happens every time I edit that LGA field. |
| Web browser | Chrome Version 61.0.3163.100 (Official Build) (64-bit) (up to date) |
| Operating system | Windows 8.1 (up to date) |
| Skin | whatever the default is |
| Notes: | Screenshot? Great idea, but how?! If I try upload it to Commons, there is a problem with WMF IP apparently. |
| Workaround or suggested solution | Don't edit tables? |
Kerry (talk) 08:33, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
- Having done more table editing, I notice a pattern. When adding a link to the table cell, if the drop-downs list of link suggestions is very long, that's when the table moves upwards on the screen, presumably to accommodate the longer drop-down, but putting the row out of sight when the link is added. If the list of suggestions is short, the table seems to remain in place. Kerry (talk) 09:01, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Signpost
Is there a chance visual editing will come to the Wikipedia Signpost pages? Eddie891 Talk Work 22:34, 8 October 2017 (UTC)
- There are three ways. One is to get the VE enabled on the Wikipedia namespace in which Signpost lives. This is a policy issue rather than a technical issue. The second is to place the template {{VEFriendly}} at the top of individual pages, which basically lets you invoke the the Visual Editor on that page, for an example see Wikipedia:GLAM/State Library of Queensland/QWiki Club. The third is to do manually what the template does, which is to add &veaction=editsource onto the URL of the Wikipedia page. None of these are officially endorsed, but just saying what I do in similar situations. Kerry (talk) 00:50, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- While its technically possible already per what Kerry said, editing Signpost pages with VE won't be a pleasant experience because of all the custom formatting and templates – e.g. for https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2017-09-25/News_and_notes&veaction=edit everything you might want to edit visually is interpreted by VE as blocks of templates/transcusions. If you want a better experience, VE needs to be able to visually edit content within such blocks (which I think has been requested before, but IIRC is too difficult with too few use cases for mainspace) - Evad37 [talk] 03:03, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
- I assume that the present design relates to an era when the source editor was the only option but would the same design decisions be made today. Even as someone quite proficient in the source editor, I'd be reluctant to edit anything made so complex. Given there's often a call for more people to contribute to Signpost, I can see why they don't if they have to master the complexity of those templates. @Eddie891:, can you clarify what kind of edits you are wanting to make? E.g. to write content, to comment, or what? If it's clearer how people are wanting to contribute, it might become clearer how to reduce the impediments to doing so. Kerry (talk) 10:12, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
Heads-up
Over two years ago I contacted several wikis as part of the plan to progressively centralise user feedback about the visual editor at mediawiki.org. (Among the other advantages it offers, the centralised board is the only one that Community Liaisons at the Wikimedia Foundation commit to check at least once a week.)
We are now working at the second phase of feedback centralisation. We think this page gets enough traffic that it's worth keeping it here, but we still want to make a change. The page will need a visible notice on top. It must either flag the name of at least one volunteer who agrees to monitor and take action on the page from now on, or it needs to say that the page is not actively monitored by WMF staff. (In any case, after the transition is complete, you can get our attention at any time by simply pinging us, like you're already doing.)
Unless I hear from you before, I'll come back in 2 weeks, on 2017-10-24, to see whether someone has volunteered, otherwise I'll simply put the other notice up. I appreciate your attention and all your support! Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:16, 10 October 2017 (UTC)
- What are the benefits to those of us who currently contribute here? The signal seems to be "we are no longer wanting feedback" or "we are no longer interested in the Visual Editor" (a once-a-week look doesn't sound like any action will be taken on an urgent bug). A quick visit to the centralised page makes it look inferior to what we have here. I don't see a template, which is useful for most bug reports. Will it be possible there to add screenshots which we can't do here? And how do we setup notifications when the page changes? I ask this because I don't get them from other wikis such as wikidata even though I have tried many times to set the preferences to do so. And how do you actually read the entries -- they all appear empty? And what is the role of this volunteer you are seeking for here? Bug reports need to be seen by the developers not random volunters. The motivation for this change seems unclear and the proposed new arrangement seems to be to make it more difficult to give feedback, particularly for the new users who are the target audience of the Visual Editor. Kerry (talk) 00:43, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks for your questions. When the visual editor first landed on big wikis, the Foundation had a huge staff that took care of the feedback for months, on several of our wikis. Liaisons don't have those staff resources any more: on the top of that, we never meant to "own" the feedback process. It is vital that communities self-sustain in those areas where this is possible (especially the biggest and best organized ones), and feedback at a not-crucial stage of the life of a single product is certainly one of those areas. This doesn't mean CLs simply walk away: we remain available whenever the need arises, but we just can't behave as if this is our only task and priority, like it was in 2013.
- The TL;DR (the process goes way beyond en.wikipedia, so some of the following may not apply) would be: having all the feedback on a single, centralized place like mw:VisualEditor/Feedback mainly means getting faster, more frequent replies and more attention from a higher number of people, including the people who are building the software. It also means chances are high, that editors will find that someone else has already written there about the issues or requests they wanted to post.
- Maintaining a local page instead can be cumbersome: it needs to be checked frequently in case someone reports urgent issues. Old threads need to be archived from time to time. Off-topic comments should be removed to keep readability. Feedback left there is sometimes not easily understandable or actionable at all.
As for your questions:
- Yes, we still want feedback. We will always want feedback. Including yours :)
- There isn't a template. In all these years, there hasn't been much need for it, if any: in the worst case scenario, we can point people to mw:How_to_report_a_bug so they know which structure is more effective for their reports.
- Once a week is the minimum: it refers to the process of following-up after a task has been resolved. If the report is on mw.org, then I'll go close/summarize the thread and update the Tracked template. I check centralized boards multiple times a day.
- You can upload screenshots in comments there by drag&drop, and then clicking Upload (it's the uploading procedure from within the visual editor), or you can use https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/file/upload/ (no need for them to be actually attached to a task).
- For watching the page, I simply have it in my watchlist and get email notifications every time a new thread comes up. To follow specific threads you're interested in as they evolve, you can watch them by subscribing individually to them.
- Most of the threads are actually empty - the page gets some spam or OT content (I'm on it). https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Topic:Tyf6r3spq0a16k77 is an example of an open thread. You can see closed threads at any time by clicking on the "X comments" link.
- Volunteers who watch feedback pages simply help with requests as they come by: they look up on Phab if those are already known, otherwise they file a new task. Phab is how you put things in front of devs' eyes. I'll be happy to discuss more in details with anyone who would like to step up, if they have any doubts/concerns.
- However, in case this isn't clear though: this page is not going away. Others elsewhere are, but this one doesn't really need a redirect at this time. We simply need people to know that the mediawiki.org one is the officially staffed one. If volunteers want to keep this one alive, that's great!, go ahead, otherwise let's simply have a notice that reflects reality. HTH. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
- I have now put the notices up. LMK if you think tweaks are necessary. best, --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 13:23, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
- However, in case this isn't clear though: this page is not going away. Others elsewhere are, but this one doesn't really need a redirect at this time. We simply need people to know that the mediawiki.org one is the officially staffed one. If volunteers want to keep this one alive, that's great!, go ahead, otherwise let's simply have a notice that reflects reality. HTH. Elitre (WMF) (talk) 10:11, 11 October 2017 (UTC)
Searching and re-using citations
| Bug report | VisualEditor |
|---|---|
| Mito.money | Please app{} |
| Intention: | I was trying to re-use a source used elsewhere in the article. |
| Steps to Reproduce: | #First I clicked " cite.
|
| Results: | The results show up blank. |
| Expectations: | I was expecting to see a list of all citations to the New York Times in that wikipedia article. |
| Page where the issue occurs | |
| Web browser | Chrome Version 61.0.3163.100 (Official Build) |
| Operating system | Windows 10 |
| Skin | |
| Notes: | |
| Workaround or suggested solution |
Knope7 (talk) 01:14, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- Agreed. Nothing happens. I usually just scroll so I've not noticed the problem before. Kerry (talk) 08:32, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Ref name
How do we add references with the "ref name" via VE? --Kailash29792 (talk) 18:37, 14 October 2017 (UTC)
- I don't think you can. Mostly this is not a problem as the VE automatically labels citations with numbers, but it becomes a problem when a citation is declared within an infobox rather than in the main body of the text, as this gets "overlooked" when you do a citation re-use. I do not know of a solution other than using the source editor. Kerry (talk) 08:27, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
science
- User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; CrOS x86_64 9592.96.0) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/60.0.3112.114 Safari/537.36
it doesn't doesn't contain anything about Acoustics consultant Analytical textile technologist Animal technician Astronaut Astronomer Audiologist Biochemist Biologist Biomedical scientist Biotechnologist Botanist Chemical engineer Chemical engineering technician Chemist Clinical engineer Clinical psychologist Clinical scientist Consumer scientist Criminal intelligence analyst Data analyst-statistician Ecologist Economist Education technician Electronics engineer Fingerprint officer Food scientist Forensic scientist Garment technologist Geneticist Geoscientist Geotechnician Healthcare science assistant Laboratory technician Materials engineer Materials technician Medical physicist Meteorologist Microbiologist Nanotechnologist Nuclear engineer Oceanographer Operational researcher Paleontologist Pathologist Pet behaviour counsellor Pharmacologist Physicist Psychiatrist Psychologist Research and development manager Research scientist Scenes of crime officer Sport and exercise psychologist Sports scientist Technical brewer Technical textiles designer Textile technologist Vet Zoologist
204.186.238.66 (talk) 14:25, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
- @204.186.238.66: You apparently think that the article Science should include a long list of occupations. I've added a link - List of scientific occupations - in the "See also" section; I don't think any other action is needed. In the future, please makes suggestions for changes to an article on the Talk page for that article; in this case, that would have been Talk:Science. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:51, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
the table cannot be edited
- User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/61.0.3163.100 Safari/537.36
Adithya harish pergade (talk) 18:40, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
Special Characters in the Citation Editor
Hi, I was just wondering if there was a way of adding special characters in the titles when using the citation editor? Red Fiona (talk) 19:56, 21 October 2017 (UTC)
Is Visual Editor stripping whitespace by default
Hi all, re: this edit, and this edit, I'm trying to figure out if Visual Editor is stripping whitespace by default, or if this user might be doing this on purpose. Anyone know anything about this? If the whitespace is being stripped by default, that's a bit annoying, since a lot of editors prefer setting up infoboxes by lining up the = signs. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb (talk) 22:27, 22 October 2017 (UTC)
- Seems to be doing it here as well. Can someone please turn this off? Cyphoidbomb (talk) 04:01, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
Shortcut "Ctrl + Alt + S" should work in the end also
The shortcut "Ctrl + Alt + S" is not working in the end. At the article it´s working but if you are inside the "Save your changes" it´s not working (in opposite to Shift + Alt + I").
Thank you very much!--F.Blaubiget (talk) 15:05, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Stop VisualEditor scrolling the page down when inserting a hyperlink
Is there any way to stop VisualEditor scrolling the page down when inserting a hyperlink, as in this screenshot: http://prntscr.com/h34uht? If not, can there at least be an option made for it? It's slower to work with and harder to immediately click on the first result. SpikeballUnion (talk) 14:41, 28 October 2017 (UTC)