User talk:Bishonen

Welcome. Please don't ask me to work, I'm tired. The user's in the sandbox, the shitsuit's at the dry-cleaners. If you bring information that I'm a bitch from hell, that's fine; please place it gently on the silver platter at the foot of the page.

ice

fire

Talk archives

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Removing warnings moods RFAr/V RFAr/Giano RFAR Ghirlandajo

Ipse dixit

Tipsy dipso. I think we all need a bloody good drink and cheering up, so here's a start. Then we can go ram-page-ing through the wiki Giano

Apparently, I'm Aristotle now. :-( I hate being in front of the column, and now we've got what I consider the reductive gesture of personalizing. "It's the US vs. Saddam Hussein!" "It's the US vs. Manuel Noreiga!" No: issues and ideologies clash, and it's a mug's game to buy into the "mano e mano" myth. So, no, I won't answer personal questions in soundbytes. It's not a soundbyte kind of thing. Geogre 11:59, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

• My mistake. It wasn't me that anyone wanted to talk to. Apparently, that person wanted to accuse his reflection of being mean to him for having the left hand on the right side. <shrug> Geogre 12:41, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

(This belongs two sections up, but I didn't want it to be missed: I broke Cockney School back out and fleshed it considerably, and it uses that beefcake picture of Leigh Hunt. Geogre 13:18, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

help

Wassup Bishy?? How've you been? Well, I'm not sure if you remember me but anyway I'm finally back. I was wondering if you help me out in a conflict with User:Miborovsky who threatened me to nominate my userpage for deletion and accuse me violating WP:POINT. Anyway, your help will be greatly appreciated. thanks--Bonafide.hustla 01:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Boney, my man, of course I remember you, who wouldn't? Have you been getting in trouble again, huh? Sorry to say I need an admin break and a general quarrelling break right now, so could you ask someone else, please? And note that I've put a general request to admin watchers of this page below, under the "Are you listening?" heading. Bishonen | talk 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

Opinion needed

Hey, there is a bit of an edit war going on in the external links section of The World Can't Wait and Revolutionary Communist Party, USA. The talk pages of each include the relevant info (although posts keep getting removed, so you may need to look in the history. It seems to me that User:In the Stacks has an axe to grind with Chuck Munson (which appears to be mutual) and as such is refusing to allow any links to Chuck's website infoshop.org. This isn't going anywear, so I thought I'd ask an uninvolved party for their opinion. Ungovernable Force^{Got something to say?} 04:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, ungovernable. Sorry, I can't take any more of that type of stuff right now, I hope somebody else steps into the breech (compare above and below). Bishonen | talk 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

Well, I weighed in with a tentative opinion on UF's talk. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:55, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Appreciate it, Unmanageable Bunch. Ping? Bishonen | talk 22:10, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

Two more hours or so. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Pong. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 00:10, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

im Svenska!

Hey, one of "my" (quotes mandatory) articles is now in Swenska. It's Jonathan Wild, and I think it's up for FA there, too. It's a great tonic to the troops to see one's article spread to other languages. Geogre 19:57, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Ah, currently up for votes as Excellent or Read-Worthy article! There seems to be some mild criticism of the translation--"needs sprucing up". I'll take a look later. If the need is real, I'm sure there'll be plenty of users up for sprucing at sv.wiki. Or ALoan can do it, his Swedish is just fine. Bishonen | talk 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

"...his Swedish is just fine" - his Swedish what I might ask. (Don't tell Madame ALoan about the au pair... or three). Børk, børk, børk, as we say in Sweden.

I'm sorry to hear that you are stressed, Bishonen - please take it easy. This is all castles in the air: none of it really matters compared to Real People with Real Feelings in Real Life. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you listening?

There is an odd scratching and whimpering at the door to the salon. Is a small puppy outside, in the cold? Did she get lost? Poor little thing, she's been wandering out in the world too long... see her licking her little bruised paws. KillerChihuahua^?!? 20:26, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

No, I think what you're hearing is the sound of the hostess trying to get out, actually. Time to send herself for a purdah in the sandbox and her gracious Shitsuit Oilskins for a good dry-clean, I think. But welcome back, little puppy! Come in, take the weight off the paws, the guys will be round shortly for a dish of tay and a natter. Meanwhile, could some of all youse useless admins watching this page take a look at Bonafide Hustla's and Ungovernable's requests above, please? I'm taking an admin break. Bishonen | talk 21:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

Taking an admin break - but why? You could be chatering in all sorts of secret places, it must be like being a Ladyfreemason, but without the silly business with the trouserleg and perced nipple Giano 06:20, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh do open the door somebody and let her in - why are your paws bruised? My paws are quite bruised too! Giano 21:27, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I have been spending an inordinate amount of time in a strange and hostile place - I think some refer to it as the Real World. Why are your paws bruised, poor Giano? KillerChihuahua^?!? 21:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

OMG she's missed all the fun. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Giano. Bishonen | talk 22:07, 9 October 2006 (UTC).

Do you have to be insane to post here or can anybody join in? --GraemeL ^(talk) 22:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Are you actually not insane? What is that like? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 22:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Insanity is just a state of mind. --GraemeL ^(talk) 22:18, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm in the state of florida, close enough. Dear me, Giano, what a hubbub! I saw the beginnings but it just keeps going, yes? It will take time to read all that mess. Who is Inksplotch? Is Tony reformed? Did anyone listen to David D, who makes some excellent clear points? Did Kelly actually approve the use of "Lying primadonnas" in the evidence section of an Arbcom case, as pasted by Cyde from her This is not Wikipedia blog entry? Stay tuned, sports fans... KillerChihuahua^?!? 22:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

My advice: don't read it. It will take you from the insane state of Florida to the state of insanity very quickly. There has been a lot of unexplainable stuff there. The blog being "evidence" was just one of the weirder ones, and no one commented on it amongst the arbitrators. According to user PizzaHut2 (what happened to PizzaHut1, I wonder), Kelly really did give permission. This by corroboration to Cyde's statement that she did. Now, that might make you think that she has a low opinion of what can be evidence or a high opinion of herself, but I take it as just one more example of how far out people can get when they believe themselves instead of the group, or when they define their group only as those who agree in the first place, which is why my alternate text was consistently about narrowcasting in untraceable communications fora. That may sound like a very specialized complaint (and a lot of people who read...quickly, I guess...read it that way), but what I was getting at was the impulse among many people, when they find their desires checked, to pull in the fences and start appealing to smaller groups rather than larger, whether those people are arbitrators deciding to ask only themselves or beaurocrats hiding their process or a group of administrators secreting their opinions and then acting on them in public. No matter who it is, when you see that the disagreement is rational or widespread, it's time to open up more, time to explain more fully, not to close the door and turn off the lights. Apparently, my simple view is construed by some people as a "political" struggle (and I still don't think Wikipedia is a polis that can have politics) or, what I have never thought, much less said, that I think that administrators abuse users. Either I'm really not able to communicate very well at all or some people cannot read or some people simply don't believe that I mean what I say (when I've been pretty consistent for years). Geogre 01:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to avoid it. My avoidance has not been entirely successful, but has been facilitated by the amount of bull... discussion text on the pages of the case. At this point it would require a few days full-time work to get updated. One thing that puzzles me is Kelly Martin's not-a-cow thing. What's that all about? (BTW, Bish, "The Bitch from Hell" sounds cööl, you should register that as a sockpuppet username.) Tupsharru 07:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

It's the censored version, Tups, it was really "bastard bitch from hell", as spoken by a (then) administrator of famous graciousness. Long and unwitty, I think you'll agree. The sock nick I'd really like, "bishzilla", is unfortunately already taken—to mock me, no doubt. BTW, and very much apropos, you might want to look in on your otäcka gubbe that you like so much. He has an, uh, request. I'm not going back there. Bishonen | talk 11:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC).

<AGF>Perhaps the "bastard" bit was actually a reference to the period you specialize in, and the reference to Hell was simply a misunderstanding, with you being Scandinavian and all, you know: Swiss, Norwegian, whatever... some place with mountains.</AGF> As for O.G., I couldn't care at this point, and I'm not going to do anything about it. Tupsharru 20:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

"Updating" is not worth the trouble, really. I may say that Bish's performance was examplary throughout, despite personal attacks she's been subjected to. Much of the outrage has been taken to other venues, such as this one. Forget about it. Let's move on and talk about brighter stuff. The ArbCom elections are coming; will you support Bish if she nominates herself (as I sincerely hope she does)? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 08:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Ghirla (for the PA support, not so much the raving election lunacy :-P). Being attacked by a stranger apparently quite unaware of the background got to me, I admit. Yes, yes, I'm too touchy as we all know. Having regrouped, I'm back for a sandbox break, hoping the user you mention won't feel it necessary to come round and scoff at the paucity of what I do there. You have caught me in the perfect mood to run for ArbCom! Of course I will, just wait while I eat some broken glass first, 'cos that's fun too. To be serious for a moment, why don't you guys channel your energies into persuading a more eloquent and less cranky candidate to run? Bishonen | talk 11:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC).

I feel quite overwhelmed by your offer, but alas I have too many commitments elsewhere, I think Geogre is the ideal candidate or ALoan (allthough ALoan is too nice for his own good) - I think thoughsomeone with sense and logical reasoning should stand. Now back to that "famous insult" to Bishonen, are we going to allow that to remain unanswered - I wasn't too fod of beoing called a prima-donna either - shall I think up something to call that editor back? Giano 12:01, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Not me - I don't have enough time to write articles, let alone waste it deciding whether the devil or the deep blue sea is worse. It is the archetypal poisoned chalice, and I would rather eat some of Bish's tasty-sounding glass. I won't wish it on anyone else either - look what happened to poor Filiocht. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, heavens. Last night, I went on the IRC and saw that hordes were complaining about something on RfA. I asked which one they were complaining about, and I wouldn't get an answer. I suppose I need to stay more than 100 yards away from it, in the interests of pretty much everyone, now that I'm magnetic. (As I said, above, when something gets huge discontent, it's time to go wide, not narrow, in the discussion.) Geogre 10:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Giano, you mention someone with "sense and logical reasoning" standing for ArbCom - examine that carefully. It occurs to me that virtually everyone with "sense and logical reasoning" would have enough of those attributes to realize that ArbCom is not a Good Place to Be. It would be lovely if I am proven wrong; however it does seem like a long shot. KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

also: Please make a note that I am the real bitch - female canine = bitch, yes? There is the kinder, gentler me, aka The puppy, and then there is the teeth bared head lowered hackles raised Bitch. Please don't confuse pale imitations such as scaly greeness from Tokyo with the genuine article. On the other hand, I don't have ArbCom in my pocket, although given recent events it looks like the Zilla's pocket may have a hole, or pocket lint, or something. Still, pocket lint serves its purpose, witness Arthur Dent. KillerChihuahua^?!? 12:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

/Bishzilla scrabbles in her pocket for the little ArbCom. The pocket is empty.[1] Scrabbles some more, finds a small shoe. Eats it nostalgically, sighs. It has a tiny foot in it! She cheers up. Munches.Bishonen | talk 01:36, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Brevity is the sister of talent?

More to the point and far more interesting, what is the current thought on article length, my current work is becoming longer and longer and the end is nowhere in sight, I have a feeling I may be wandering off subject at times, but for once keep finding more and more fascinating (to me) information on what I thought was an obscure subject - there is not one published biography of her - so I'm having to ref almost every verb to prevent the charges or own research, can a page be over reffed and over long? Giano 08:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Please take my words easy, but I really think that most featured articles in Wikipedia are overlong. People tend to think: the longer the better. Not at all. Wikipedia is not a compendium of human knowledge. It seems to me that the concept of encyclopedia implies that the size of articles is limited. Encyclopaedia article is not expected to contain an exhaustive treatment of every aspect of the subject. It was not without reason that Flaubert and Pushkin omitted the finest pages from Onegin and Bovary. I confess that I never was able to read a featured article until the end in a single sitting (Sicilian Baroque being the only exception). And trust me, I'm not the laziest reader on this site. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 08:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Meh. I love monographs, myself. I always tell my charges, when they ask, "How long does this paper have to be," "As long as it needs to be." Discuss the subject fully, but keep interesting extranneous matter out. My version of "needs to be" is longer than another person's and not shorter than much of anyone's. Geogre 11:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

(I am going to bore everyone again with my rhino - please look away now if 500 year old woodcuts scare you.)

Is Dürer's Rhinoceros (the article, not the woodcut or the animal) too long? I'm not sure whether there are many shorter FAs that that. "What is the shortest FA?" would be a good question to ask on WT:FAC... (Giano's Victorian lady is fine and lovely; now, my Victorian lady, that is too long).-- ALoan (Talk) 11:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Dürer's Rhinoceros is just the right size. By the way, is there a more general article about the history of rhinos in Europe, along the lines of History of elephants in Europe? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 11:43, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Did you finish it in one sitting? :)

There is an article in French, but History of rhinoceroses in Europe and List of historical rhinoceroses have been on my redlink list for some time (after a long hiatus, I knocked off some easy ones, like Up-Park Camp, Letter of introduction and a redirect for gibnut yesterday).

Apropos of nothing, compare my article on Michael Pollock (written by mosaicing published newspaper obituaries) with today's obit in The Independent. Some turns of phrase are, um, rather familiar... -- ALoan (Talk) 12:03, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I thought they wrote people's obits before they die, that way they have a chance to proof read them and add their favourite bits about themselves. All the people I know whi have had them at least three have actually written their own completely. I shall certainly use mine to settle a few old scores - so beware Giano 15:48, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, I suspect that the newspapers and other press outlets do have files of obits ready to deploy the day after; on the other hand, obits on some of the more obscure characters (the ones that I like to write up - Johnny Sekka, anyone?) often seem to drip out over the following couple of months, and I suspect that at least some of them are bespoke, written to order after the event. Occasionally, like this chap, you find one of the "big 4" broadsheet newspapers (not that any of them are really "broadsheet" any more) filling a gap where all of the others have already done their bit. And the Guardian and Independent usually give byline credits (the Times and Telegraph rarely do). Tam Dalyell clearly has a lucrative sideline in political obits for the Guardian.

I have suggested it to them before, but the biography wikiproject people really ought to have a team that skims the obits systematically - it is an easy source of content on more-or-less important people (I still have Sven Nykvist and Joe Rosenthal and Walter Hadlee and Raymond Baxter in my "todo" box). -- ALoan (Talk) 18:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, this is nothing new here. Read "International recognition at last! Bigger than barnstar" on the user page of Mikkalai. Being cited by The Independent is way more honorable, I dare say. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 12:35, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

"Recognition" would be fine, but there is no attribution. Admittedly, I originally lifted the facts from other newspapers, changed to order and the words, and wikified. Perhaps it is my fault, and I have unwittingly steered too close to a common source, but I was surprised at the similarities here. I always add my sources, at least. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:04, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

GFDL, man. I know it says you always have to say it came from Wikipedia, but some folks will seriously misunderstand as equating to free information without an author. Geogre 14:21, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Ouch, Giano, where you say above "are we going to allow that to remain unanswered," I hope you're just giving an example of what an actual coterie/clique would do! As for article length: I like short articles. I think with most FAs, you could write whatever in the final paragraph, because nobody's going to get that far anyway. Maybe that just shows I am the laziest reader on the site. But "my" FAs are too long, every last one of them. They represent desperate cutting and condensing, and they're still too long. The Country Wife might be tolerable, if I remember it right (daren't look). Once I actually came close to tears when I'd just corseted an article to the point of implosion and Geogre immediately added a whole paragraph... a good paragraph, but... As for Dürer's rhino, it's perfect, though I guess I would add, it could be a whisker longer and still be perfect. Bishonen | talk 17:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC).

Well "my" Matthew Brettingham is pretty short too, but I don't think he would qualify as an FA today so that is probably why - I think Mary Seacole is fine, I wonder if she knew my Hannah perhaps we could introduce them. Can't stay here chatting I've decided to write my obituary - while there is still time. I'm leaving Palazzo Splendido to Bishonen together with it's art collection, of young ladies in tasteful poses, ALoan will get "Palermo Publishing" which prints the art collection and supplies magazines worldwide, and Geogre can have the gold plate effect fountain pen given me the pope, my yacht "La benna pericolosa" (such a pretty name) I bequeath to "other people" on condition they all cruise together; the remiander of my fortune goes to Raul on condition that Cecilia is allowed to choose the main page twice a week, Oh yeah Killer, you can have my dog Porsche, and Girla has my free pass for the ferry to Sicilia. Of course this will is liable to change depending on your treatment of me in the future Giano 17:55, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Giano, your testament appears very Baroque. You probably guessed what it made me think about... that we still don't have the article The Will (Donne poem). You see, the darned project impairs our mode of thinking! --Ghirla ^-трёп- 18:15, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

• Well I m a a very Baroque sort of person! Giano 18:59, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I saw a recent biography of Donne in the bookshops - now there is an FA that needs to be written. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I have tried to avoid single poem articles, except where they're political/cultural turning points, like The Dunciad. The only exception was one I was drafted in for: The Vicar of Bray (song). If we get to do poems, though, you'll never see me on talk pages again, as I'll be a busy, busy litgeek. Geogre 19:12, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Since we have so many articles about paintings, short stories and songs (and one featured article about a photograph), I don't see why poems should be discriminated against. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Oh I like that one, we used to have to sing it when I was at school in England, the Vicar of Bray, I mean - do you know "There is a tavern in the town" that's a jolly good one too, another one was "The Millers lovely daughter", God I'm geting quite nostalgic - Thank you Geogre, when are you going to start these pages? Giano 19:26, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

PS: I wonder who the Millers were, sound like a nice couple, probably had to leave town, with a daughter like that I expect. Giano 19:28, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey, did you sweet little boys ever use to sing Eskimo Nell? I had an English boyfriend once who knew the whole thing by heart... ick. Bishonen | talk 21:02, 10 October 2006 (UTC).

Nelly had a steamboat/ The steamboat had a bell/ Nellie went to heaven/ The steamboat went to / Hello operator/ Give me number nine/ If you don't connect me, I'll kick you in the/ Behind the refrigerator, there was some broken glass/ Nellie sat upon it and cut up all her/ Ask me no more questions, and I'll tell you no more lies/ If you listen to me, I'll.... I've forgotten any more of it I ever knew. Geogre 15:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

It was "Miss Lucy" in my neighborhood, but the rest is the same. I think I do remember the balance of the jingle, but it will never make Featured Article. Newyorkbrad 15:10, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Ask me no more questions, I'll tell you no more lies, The boys are in the bathroom, zipping up their Flies are in the meadow, the bees are in the park, Miss Suzie's in the bedroom, Kissing in the DARK DARK DARK!

That was the way it went in my neighborhood. There was a complicated "clap" that went to it, and I still remember how to do it. Senility can be fun... Oh and yes, it was Miss Suzie. KillerChihuahua^?!? 14:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

• Is that sung to the tune of "Four and twenty virgins"? (Sorry Slim - no offence, these ones are from Inverness) Giano 21:25, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

How....adorable. You mealy-mouthed lot obviously never clicked on my link, or I would have had to get you some smelling salts. Bishonen | talk 20:12, 11 October 2006 (UTC).

Pish-posh. Where are the illustrators when you need them? It's just 19th century goatse. Geogre 20:45, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

My dear most irritating patronising tone I have sung that in three languages on rugby club tours. Do you want to see the picture of me converting against France Well when I say France...I mean...... Giano 20:50, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

That's real edifying, that is: grown men falling over themselves to prove how boorish they can be in a lady's salon. No contest, you're both very good at it. [/Bishzilla withdraws with delicate shudders, spinning daintily. And don't think she didn't see you on ALoan's page, Giano.]

Look, The Salon! —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I am glad you are feeling better

--Ideogram 03:31, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Ipse dixit non!

Alas, Jonathan Wild is no longer featured among the French. Oh, well. If the Swedes like him, that will make up for all. Geogre 19:58, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Google says that "("Pas de sources ni de Biblio, dommage")" means "No sources in the Biblio, damage," where I would have thought it meant "No sources not in the book, demote," but I have a sneaky suspicion that it means, "No inline sources using my favorite scheme." Geogre 11:47, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Google is your friend but don't get too friendly. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 11:57, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I think "pas...ni..." is a "neither...nor..." construction - no sources nor bibliography. The bibliography was added recently, some time after the nomination for demotion. -- ALoan (Talk) 13:22, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Whew! I'm off the hook, at least. I added a sources (Gerald Howson) and even referred a couple of times (Howson) to my sources (Howson and Defoe and David "ot-nay oot-ay right-bay" Nokes). Geogre 13:31, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

"Dommage" expresses regret, "what a pity". So they did like it. Bishonen | talk 19:00, 12 October 2006 (UTC).

Is he any relation to Oscar because I could work him into my next page if he is? - there is a valid connection Giano 19:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

And I'm pretty sure that dommage can be translated as drat or damm-it. But that's not why I'm here. See below. Regards, Ben Aveling 03:19, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

"I notified user Filiocht"

Well, it seems that our fine FARC folks are at work some more. This time, it's a Filiocht article to be [[2]]. Geogre 15:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, call the inline citation police. As for the demand for an infobox (which will just repeat the first line of the lead section)... Anyway, I have chopped some of the books and made the fiction section a bit more cursive. It will be FARCed, of course, because it doesn't have enought inline citations. Sigh. -- ALoan (Talk) 15:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

But the prose is sooooo awful! (Those dirks! They wouldn't know brilliant prose if it bit them in the face.) They can do what they want, but John Dee is, without a question, one of the finest articles on Wikipedia. It's excellent. Geogre 17:34, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Can anything be done? God I've been here so long, I've a feeling I even voted for it on FAC - how sad is that, or perhaps that was one of Fil's many other brilliant pages, I'll go and check. I suppose this will be one of "our" pages one day, when we are no longer here, condemned to mediocrity by the mediocre - such is life Giano 19:25, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

We all did, some long time ago. I was a little wet around the ears then, and got a bit snotty about whether it was comprehensive enough. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:29, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh God, and I had a "minor quibble" too, and just look at those names, real blasts from the past, Emsworth is still "sort of" about at least, I often wondered about his age though, just as Mrs G seems to have been 36 for some years now, Emsworth is 17, well if that's true that boy should go far. More to the point how long before The Cantos is on the block? Can't someome stop this madness somehow? Fil should never have placed it here, but published it and made a fortune - and he could have done too! - that work of art should not be allowed to decline............Giano 19:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Guys? Ahem. John Dee isn't by Filiocht, it's by User:PRiis. Filiocht merely nominated it. Nobody notified Pete. Of course you know he's away as well. I've just left him a note (e-mail not enabled). Bishonen | talk 21:38, 12 October 2006 (UTC).

Yes well, we know that of course, and a jolly good editor PRiis was too, we are just having a wallow in nostalgia about dear old Fil - who we all miss, although I'm beginning to think he had the right idea Giano 21:54, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

We've all had that thought. Paul August is the only one to make good on it, although he tells me he will be back when the month of exile is over. My mistake on PRiis. It's a really strong article, and, at the time, I didn't know how strong. It's since then that I've read more about those weird mathgeeks of the 16th and 17th centuries and seen how devout they were (and weird, but that goes with the mathgeek part). Geogre 00:38, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I will be ... considering my position ... once MS is finished. -- ALoan (Talk) 01:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

friendly advice

I see your Giano's unblock. The matter is being actively discussed on WP:AN/I with lots of support of the block. It'd be very wise to, at least, meake a comment informing about your decission. -- Drini 23:40, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Uh... a comment? I've written a fairly elaborate comment on Doc's page. Is anything else required? Bishonen | talk 23:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC).

Well, since other people BEASIDES Doc were commenting on ANI, it's only polite to inform at the admins noticeboard about it. -- Drini 23:51, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I was about to say the very same thing. (I have posted on User talk:Doc glasgow, already, by the way.) -- ALoan (Talk) 23:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Wish you had been paying attention to IRC. Plus I wish you'd taken a moment to discuss unblocking a friend of yours before simply out-of-process doing it. At least post to WP:AN/I that he's unblocked. Because any casual reader will think he's still blocked. Bastiq▼e ^demandez 23:48, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

IRC is distasteful to me lately, for good reason. I'm surely not obliged to frequent it; many users never do, including admins. Bishonen | talk 00:32, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

It's not out of process to unblock a friend. It's out of process to unblock yourself. I haven't investigated the case otherwise, but it's not the friendship that makes an unblock right or wrong. (Off to AN/I.) Geogre 00:40, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

IRC is not Wikipedia. Let's get that established. IRC is not Wikipedia, is not mandatory for Wikipedians, is not preferred for Wikipedians, is not helpful for Wikipedians. Secondly, Giano said that the blog was horrible. Well, that's misplaced, but it's not exactly a personal attack. I could say that Slashdot is horrible without attacking Commander Taco. I could say that Wikipedia is terrible without attacking Jimbo Wales. Cool off blocks are not ever, ever, ever successful in their proclaimed intent, and Doc seems to want to replicate the mistakes of Tony Sidaway in that. If you want to block for "civility," then lodge an RfC. Don't just decide without input. Geogre 01:12, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I am certainly not a friend of Giano (intersected with him only a few times) but I endorse the unblock (also left a warning to Giano) abakharev 01:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Alex. Bishonen | talk 12:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

Acceptable behaviour

Bish, Did you mean to give people the impression that the way Giano expressed what he had to say was acceptable? Regards, Ben Aveling 03:29, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Ben: I wasn't aiming for impressions in that respect: the impression I was after was that it's important a user under arbitration should get to state his unhampered views on the matter being arbitrated. On the evidence page in particular. (Nandesuka has since put it better on ANI: "blocking someone who is currently in the middle of an arbitration case is not the best thing to be doing. If it was, I can promise you that there is at least one person recently active on this same RFArb who I would have been blocking for 3.6 minute stretches every 4 minutes. For fun. Until he cried. But I held off because it's an arbitration case, and because the arbitrators get to determine what is "too far" in that context.") I tried to explain this in my original post to Doc here: "I find it inappropriate to block the nominal focus of an RFAr for evidence added on the evidence page." That must have been unclear, since Doc translated it as being about Giano having enoughtime to respond to the RfAr: "3 hours is not disrupting his ability to respond to the RfAr - and as you say he's 'nominal' so that reason is pure wikilawyering." And met my offer of further explanation with a disinvitation to post on his page to "defend myself", because he was "done" with me. I'm just as well pleased to abide by that, considering the misunderstandings of my reasoning (e. g. by Mackensen: "Excuse me? Is policy in abeyance on the evidence page?"). My fault, I expect--I do try to be clear, but I guess I fail a lot, and this was a complicated issue to disentangle.

Anyway, Ben, you probably didn't just mean to ask for what impression I meant to give people, but also whether I think Giano did express himself acceptably? Yes, I do think so. Compare Rebecca, who put it well: "Giano's response may have been harsh, but the material he was responding to was a downright vile personal attack on him. It was hardly uncalled for."[3]. Tactfully, no; acceptably, yes. What was that foul self-indicting Wikipedia-Review type rant doing in the Evidence section in the first place? Why was the ArbCom's only comment on the person who wrote it, and sanctioned pasting it there, a "Thank you"? Giano had every right to ask. Incidentally, if anything's wikilawyering, it's justifying that blog post being right there in the RFAr evidence (its presence sanctioned by Kelly and implemented by Cyde), by saying it was in some sense "really" posted outside the wiki, so it doesn't count. Bah. Bishonen | talk 12:56, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

Giano didn't only criticise Kelly, but also the arbcom and Jimbo. Regards, Ben Aveling 05:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

No he did not, read it again (I would have thought everyone here could recite it by heart by now) it says "Are we truly to believe the arbcom are so thankful for that, and Jimbo was ever so taken with her". The arbcom having read the evidence are now voting to thank her - so it is a very valid question. Kelly always implied she was a friend of Jimbo's. Good for her, that must be very pleasant for them both. However, I can't imagine Jimbo was particularly impressed by that blog either. If you actually read the blog, not just what was pasted to wiki, there is a lot of other information. I was also commenting on the blog. I don't imagine Jimbo is much impressed by me or many others concerned with whole rotten case either, but it's all a bit late for those concerns now. Now this is actually Bishonen's page, so my further views will be posted on my own page, if I decide to post them that is, because I too am heartily sick of this whole case, it is just a pity reference to that blog was ever permitted as evidence, especially if people do not in fact want to discuss it or hear concerned parties views on it. Giano 08:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Are we truly to believe the arbcom are so thankful for that, and Jimbo was ever so taken with her?

To me, this says 1. either the arbcom's judgement is faulty, or their thanks are insincere; 2. Jimbo has been making decisions with his heart, not his head. I don't know how much truth is contained in the content, but wrapping the whole thing in scatological language means that people don't react to the content, they react to the way it was delivered. Doc glasgow believes that the intent of the post was to hurt people. I think he's wrong, but I can see why he believes that way. Regards, Ben Aveling 21:22, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the unblock (I was in bed hours before anyone even noticed) it now seems we are not allowed to comment on off-wiki blogs, even those that are nothing but a tissue of lies and insults about wikipedians. Kelly still has her fans, I wonder how many of them saw her "Bitch from Hell" remark on wherever it was and were too frightened of her to even raise an eyebrow. Just for once I would love to be listening to the wittering and twittering on IRC, but alas no time - travelling today - so you won't have to watch out nervously for my edits. Sorry if I've caused you all embarrassment but it needed saying, and as usual it was me that had to open my great mouth. It always amazes me how some people post provocative statements and then become surprised when they provoke. Of course the link and pasting from the blog should never have been allowed to remain there, amazing how quick though a comment against it can be removed - truly amazing - anyway this particular Prima-donna has to pas-de-deux to the aeroport - and you "lying Prima-donnas" and assorted "female dogs" have an encyclopedia to write. Lots of love. See you soon. Giano 08:21, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll be back with some distinctions, Ben. Giano, since there's a misapprehension there, I think I should point out that "bastard bitch from hell" was Tony Sidaway's summing-up of myself on IRC, not Kelly Martin's. Doesn't affect your main point about lies and insults too much I guess, as there have been amiabilites from her as well, also on the restricted admin channel (which I thought was to be purely used for coordinating admin actions, but I've learned differently). Acceptable behavior? Free pass? You be the judge. Have a safe trip. Bishonen | talk 10:02, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

Hi Giano, I'd still like a response to my question, when you've got time. But I'll chuck in a bonus question while you're here. Do you think you were blocked because of what you said, or because of the way you said it? Regards, Ben Aveling 09:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Let me toss in a thought about the consensus on AN/I. If people had not seen the blog entry on the /Evidence page or not seen the whole sorry state of affairs, then all they would have seen is, apparently, this comment out of nowhere making hash out of another user's hobby. That would be shocking. However, in the context, it was pretty understandable (as I've explained a number of times). The thing is, that was followed by two inappropriate actions that our outside of the realm of interpretation: Doc Glasgow removed the comment without being a clerk, and then Cyde redacted the blog without being a clerk, and all of this when all had been sternly warned by Fred that no one was allowed to remove Tony Sidaway's ... excessive?... threads on the /Workshop. However, the /Evidence page is not just any page, and Doc Glasgow presented it on AN/I, where evidence shows are pretty much never cited. (After all, when some of the trolls have gone ape during their procedures, has anyone quoted those on AN/I and asked people to agree to a block? It's unheard of.) The readers, therefore, would have had to be already familiar and exceptionally attentive to have offered an honest and considered opinion. Geogre 15:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

• It was my own fault entirely, I hadn't realised Cyde had pasted it in just for decoration and the Arbs and clerks left it there for purely ornamental purposes, I stupidly thought it was considered bona fide and therefore needed repudiating, I don't know about you Geogre but I failed the audition to be the Sugar Plum Fairy, and one thing I am never accused of is lying, a little direct with the truth perhaps. Besides which I had no idea it was illegal to comment on a non-wiki site that was being economical with the truth. Giano 15:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Acceptable bee

Nectar! El_C 05:34, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Highly acceptable, Commandante! Bishonen | talk 18:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC).

Gingerbread

Home-baked gingerbread for Bish.

Thanks for reverting my talkpage last night! Tupsharru 18:41, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yum yum. OG isn't getting any. Bishonen | talk 00:49, 14 October 2006 (UTC).

Hey

Hey again. Good to see you. As you can see, I'm back. :) Not gonna be around much, I'll pop up every few days. Anyway, who is Thewolfstar, and how come they were blocked so quickly? I didn't think Imagination debridee (or whatever the name was) was causing that much trouble. -- infinity0 14:45, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Hiya, Inf! Nice to see you back, I hope the exams went well. Oh, that wasn't quickly for a Thewolfstar sock; on the conrary, I'd been asked to block as soon as it appeared, and had been holding off and watching. This is a permabanned user who has exhausted the community's patience—one of our few true community bans. Please see Wikipedia:List of banned users and this WP:ANI thread. The edit on Talk:Anarchism that I replied to was a wolfster classic, along with other indications. Incidentally, I don't do CheckUser on the wolf sockfarm any more; she's exhausted CheckUser's patience, too, and they've told me it's too obvious for them. When you know her (as to my cost I do), it certainly is. As she knows, she can appeal a community ban directly to the ArbCom or Jimbo, instead of continually creating these transparent sockpuppets. Best, Bishonen | talk 15:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC).

Plus, abusive administrator bishonen is widely known to be rouge. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, ok, well, I trust that 20-30 people are right in this matter. Has User:RJII been a problem with sockpuppets? Lots of new editors have popped up whose attitudes are very similar to his, but I haven't had to time to analyse them carefully.

There's something (POV-fanaticism) which I wish more people knew about on wikipedia, but I have no time to actively inform people about it. Do you know where I can post something that a LOT of people will read? -- infinity0 16:18, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

A lot, no. I don't think such a place exists. I'd suggest WP:AN, though that's only good for reaching admins. If you're more after catching the ear of noobs, well.... I don't think it can be done. I suspect RJII has in fact been a sock problem. That's kind of the RJII thing, isn't it? But I don't really know. It's not a voice I have a natural alert for. Well, since it's a collective, who does? *If* RJII is a problem, it's obviously going to be a much more intricate problem than the so-recognizable wolfster who's always in the same place, and always soapboxing uselessly on the talkpage rather than editing. (Why don't you just use your own website for that, Maggie? Is the general reader ever going to look at the talkpage? Think about it.) I can't say it tempts me to become more familiar with RJII. There seem to already be about as many banned/blocked/sanctioned/problem users on my plate as it has room for. Bishonen | talk 00:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC).

Sorry

It was your first comment + the patronizing "Oh goodie" and subsequent from Geogre that led to my little snap. I apologize. It was, as Sandy suggested, meant more as a defence of her than anything else. We can rename the page if the title seems a put-down. It's just a tool to aid with FAR and the title hasn't been changed since it was compiled in Disco King's user space.

"Idosyncratic compared to other FAs" is a better way to put it. The Wiki trend has been to emphasize the point-and-click ahead of academic practices. Your pages seem well-referenced to me. Marskell 16:56, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

OK. Bishonen | talk 00:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC).

I moved the two articles BTW. Marskell 12:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen, I just wanted to sincerely apologize again for my haste. Marskell has mentioned before that I was risking burnout, and he's probably right: I was burning the candle at both ends. The oversight happened because of my haste, and because I'm sure Marskell was sensitive to how much work I've been doing. I looked at the refs, saw three, then looked for inotes in edit mode, and neglected to even look at the prose because I was trying to finish my watchlist and pack. Anyway, I see the articles have now been moved off the list. Thanks for making those other editor changes: I had to go through all 400+ articles to build a spreadsheet of Projects and authors to notify if/when they come up at FARC, and it wasn't always clear to me. If you see other changes, can you let me know, because then I can be sure to update my spreadsheet as well? Best, Sandy 03:05, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Shucks, Sandy. I hope you don't let the work get on top of you, but keep in mind that Wikipedia's supposed to be something you do for fun. You know, like a hobby? That's some impressive spreadsheet you've got. I can certainly understand that it's better any moves or changes to it are done by you--just look at me fumbling about in there at random. Pathetic. Er, I noticed one thing, actually. User:Ganymead's Elizabethan theatre project--under "Theatre"--the three articles listed there, Augustan drama, Colley Cibber, and Restoration comedy, aren't Elizabethan at all--nowhere close--they're 18th century, and I'm pretty sure Ganymead doesn't mention them. He shouldn't, anyway. (He's on wikibreak, I hope he comes back soon, nicest guy you'll ever meet.) Also, incidentally, Augustan drama is mainly by the diligent Geogre, User:NicholasTurnbull who's credited didn't have anything to do with it. Best, Bishonen | talk 03:45, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

The notifications are just a courtesy; something I'm doing in an effort to cast a wider net, hoping to increase the chances of finding someone interested in working on an article. When I searched the 400+ articles still on the citations list compiled by DiscoKing, I added any relevant Project that I was aware of or could find via the Council Directory, but I also included any WikiProject that showed up in the article's "What links here" (hence, Elizabethan theatre on those articles). I'd rather over than under-notify, on the chance that someone might pitch in and help on an article, so I included even Projects found in the links that didn't make sense. Is it likely anyone reading the Elizabethan theatre project would help provide citations? I'll switch Augustan drama—thanks. I shouldn't be promising to take on yet another task, but as time allows, I will read completely through every nomination as articles come up, so that another John Dee/PRiis won't be missed. The official notification is the talk page FAR template; optimally, FAs are being watched by their original authors so they won't deteriorate, so original authors should be aware even if I miss one. Regards, Sandy 04:13, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Just getting ready to thank you.

So thanks, already.  :) You are unquestionably one of my favorite users and if I can ever return all the favors, please let me know. All the best, Lucky 6.9 02:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

• And even more thanks for blocking that Stevejpayne joker. I was just about to do the same thing.  :) - Lucky 6.9 06:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  • You have mail, Lucky. Speaking of jokers, get a load of this well-spoken troll--quite funny, I thought. WP:AAGF is one of my favorite pages. :-) I only wish it were policy. As for our friend "Anal sex in Brazil", don't let him get you down, you did what you could. Best, Bishonen | talk 11:16, 15 October 2006 (UTC).

Boast

Check out my latest image! Unashamed parental boast! Giano 17:25, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

LOL Personal attacks sem to be becoming easier and easier these days [4] all these sensitive little flowers. Giano 17:50, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I just saw that removal, that was uninhibitedly strange. Don't tell me that's your number 3? Is the whole family as crazy as you are? Bishonen | talk 18:42, 15 October 2006 (UTC).

No they are not all mine. Giano 19:19, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, everybody knows you're a good Catholic, what do you expect people to think? Bishonen | talk 02:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

Editor Review

Hey, I've recently put myself up for the Editor Review process. With the (seeming) end of the Vaughan-gate mess, I've been back to normal editing for the last while and wanted some outside opinions as to what kind of job I'm doing; if I'm on the right track, if there's anything I can do to improve, etc. If you have some free time, I'd really appreciate it if you could take a look and leave me some feedback! Oh, and I'm not sure what the "bitch from hell" comment is about, but from what I've seen your one of our best editors here! --Chabuk 03:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, Chabuk, I'll try to find the time to review, but not sure I'll make it. I've kept away from "Vaughan-gate", which seems an unpalatable mess indeed, so I don't know the ins and outs of it. Bishonen | talk 12:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

Comment on AN

I'm confused by this edit. Are you not at all troubled by User:Ernham's behaviour? The thread itself is about another admin abusing his powers and "derelicting" his duties. He also accuses me of having "has a history of vandalizing that schumacher wiki .... it was hardly a shock to me he would be back at his old tricks. ". You have no problems with that? No other user who has contributed to the thread has agreed that I vandalised the page. There's a place for humour and a light-hearted approach, I don't think this was it. Sorry for taking up your time, I just wanted to make you aware of my concern. Regards Mark83 17:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry I bothered to post to support you. It won't happen again. Bishonen | talk 18:15, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

Tweetie pie

Thanks for the little bird, I just love it! Giano 20:42, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Cool, glad you like it! Bishonen | talk 21:17, 16 October 2006 (UTC).

I wonder if you would appreciate Bamse the St Bernard? -- ALoan (Talk) 17:17, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, yes. He had a free pass! Bishonen | talk 17:18, 17 October 2006 (UTC).

Now, now.

It will probably be moved to Bamse (dog) or something similarly banal. Bamse seems to be something quite different. -- ALoan (Talk) 17:27, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Sadly ALoan, and I hate to tell you this, I fear it will be Bamse the dog, but that page does not mention "free passes" so is not so interesting at all Giano 17:53, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, bum. I feel a merge coming on. Which way, though... -- ALoan (Talk) 18:08, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Civility please ALoan! Such language afronts me, you don't want to be banned do you? You know the answer very well it has to be, sadly, the banal choice. Giano 18:12, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Civility, my arse, as I understand the members of the Royle Family say. I have been given carte blanche to merge, and have seized the initiative by doing so at my article (but perhaps I need a dot after "St"?). Carpe canem, as the motto goes in the House of the Tragic Poet in Pompeii. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:33, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

If he was a tragic poet, then he might have used hemistichs. Dull, I know, and a hemistich never pushed an enemy sailor into the ocean while bringing the drunken sailors back to their ships, but neither did it die mysteriously. Geogre 18:50, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

He did comprise four non-metrical feet. Wøøf. -- ALoan (Talk) 19:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)