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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by SerendiPity (talk | contribs) at 08:35, 31 October 2018 (→‎Irreligion map should be update). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

NPOV

This seems to be a catchall category that reflects people holding to very different perspectives and views. Combining these viewpoints into a single category is not a neutral point of view. It reflects the political desires of some rather than the perspectives of those who self identify in these thought traditions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.103 (talk) 21:18, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

More likely you just don't want to accept the fact that the most religious countries are also the absolute bottom of the barrel on the HDI lists. --||bass (talk) 00:52, 29 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

No, I do accept that ... the problem is that spiritualist and an agnostic are not the same category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.103 (talk) 23:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Since Wikipedia is based on reliable sources, and this article seems to be based on reliable sources, you will have elaborate precisely what it is that you are unhappy about concerning this article. --Saddhiyama (talk) 00:35, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The press is very basic: the creation of a "catch-all" category that does not reflect the diversity of its components; that is a precise problem, isn't it?. This is not about sources, it is about definitions. Note that I had no objection to the arguments raised by Mmxbass. And given the recent discussion elsewhere, I have nothing further to add Saddhiyama. Good day. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.12.203.126 (talk) 23:47, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The methodoly of the WinGallup polling is absolutely atrocious and does not deserve to be used in this manner. The online questionnaire in Canada was obviously confusing if it got that high result about non-religiosity, because NO polls ever published in Canada even come near to this. The WinGallop data ought to be scrubbed from this table. It is based on nonsensical methodology. Just another small example of the ridiculousness of it: 1000 online questionnaires to Canada (35 M people), 1150 online questionnaires to China 1.3 billion !! This poll is a joke.--Tallard (talk) 04:36, 19 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Margin of error FYI, the standard error for 1000 people (at 50%) is 1.6%. The 1.3B or 35M is irrelevant.

Polls

This article takes in consideration just three polls, there are many more, sometimes made by local institutes or by census and thus are more accurate, these should by included too. --DrkFrdric (talk) 16:39, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please correct a small mistake

Under the title 'By population' the country Estonia is listed twice. Maybe these two entries 'Estonia 657,580' and 'Estonia 147,620' should be merged, or maybe one of them should be deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Termgrauzis (talk • contribs) 10:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

One of these things doesn't belong

"(encompassing atheism, agnosticism, ignosticism, antireligion, skepticism, freethought, antitheism, apatheism, non-belief, secular humanism, or deism)" apparent attempt to force somekinda "spiritual not religious" into a series which is otherwise uniformly a rejection of that. Great to see the Dentsu result, refutes idiots who apparently seem to think Chinese "just have to be religious some way". When I explain that literate Chinese ceased to believe these things in European classical times it's like they just can't grasp it. 72.228.190.243 (talk) 15:39, 3 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Are you actually suggesting a change to this article or not? -- Fyrefly (talk) 04:47, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, i.e. remove "deism" from the list of things with which it is inconsistent. 72.228.190.243 (talk) 06:18, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And ignosticism as well as a similar prevarication/assumption of the thing the others reject. 72.228.190.243 (talk) 07:19, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Well I would have to completely disagree with you on ignosticism. That does not seem like a religion to me at all. Deism does seem debatable, but I think the best course would be to see how the discussion at Talk:Irreligion pans out before making changes here. -- Fyrefly (talk) 17:06, 4 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Percentage

The Wikipedia article "Irreligion" talks about 36% nonreligious. Here it's 16%, huge difference. --77.1.153.154 (talk) 18:18, 1 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Apparent vandalism in the past

In 2011, Knowledge Examiner updated the Gallup Poll figures in the Countries table to 2006-2011 results.[1] Ever since, individual figures have been changed and sometimes changed, some several times. All the changes I've examined have had poor explanations or none at all. Some have been by IPs or editors with very brief contribution histories. Knowledge Examiner's other contributions seem to have been carefully commented and even meticulous. Though I can't access the Gallup Analytics data they used (and I've searched quite hard through the publicly available data more than once), I have much more confidence in Knowledge Examiner's work than changes such as reducing Ecuador's figure from 21% to 2%,[2] especially now that I see WIN-Gallup reported 29%.
I think the best I can do is restore the Gallup figures to their original values. Does that seem sensible? NebY (talk) 22:31, 14 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Thank you for checking the figures! JimRenge (talk) 22:46, 14 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It's noticeable that one of the vandals, 217.22.190.225 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) who repeatedly changed the Malta figure from 14% to 1%[3][4][5][6], also edited[7] the same sentence in the lede into which 141.8.61.233 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) inserted a false figure[8] and is now edit-warring over.[9][10][11]. NebY (talk) 16:18, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What a coincidence, both IP´s are from Malta, and 217.22.190.225 is a confirmed proxy. JimRenge (talk) 16:25, 15 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
IP is claiming a 2015 WIN Gallup Poll with higher figures. Any evidence for that new survey? Nillurcheier (talk) 09:47, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Meanwhile I found this newer Survey (done in 14 published in 15: http://www.wingia.com/web/files/news/290/file/290.pdf ans published in the telegraph: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/11530382/Mapped-These-are-the-worlds-most-religious-countries.html with a lot of country data. But the core message is: 63% religious, 22% not religious, 11% atheists. Hence compared to the 2012 study, there is a decline in nonbelievers but within the range of statistical uncertainty. How should we proceed? Nillurcheier (talk) 10:40, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We should update the figures. Done. JimRenge (talk) 13:48, 16 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
WIN/GIA's 2015 summary of their 2014 survey omitted some countries that are in their reports for individual countries[12] - I've added those. They didn't survey some countries that they did in 2012 and which we'd accidentally kept under "WIN-Gallup 2015". We could simply delete or annotate those results, but one way we lose data and the other risks confusion. The 2012 and 2014 results shouldn't be mixed; many have changed by 10% or more in either direction. There are many possible explanations (e.g. personal religiosity varies rapidly, social pressures affect responses, polling methods change, polling questions change, polling questions in some languages have come to be differently understood, sampling is inconsistent, quotas have been ill-judged) and this article may not be the place to provide them, but by showing both sets of results from WIN/GIA we may at least help the reader to avoid thinking the figures are true to the nearest 1%. NebY (talk) 21:32, 21 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Gallup 2006-2011 source

The link in the table is dead, but I found this link http://www.gallup.com/poll/142727/religiosity-highest-world-poorest-nations.aspx#2 that has a breakdown of religiosity in different countries. However, the numbers differ somewhat, which means either that there's another source or that somebody changed the numbers to fit their POV. If we can't find the corrext source I think that the columns should be deleted or changed to fit the source we have. Comments? Sjö (talk) 11:49, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That poll's used in the Importance of religion by country article. Yes, it is strikingly different; not everyone who has a religion regards it as very important, and there seem to be national variations in this - or maybe the question about importance means different things in different places and languages. There's been massive vandalism of both articles - see above and these repairs for this article. I'm in two minds about dumping the Gallup 2006-2011 material; it might simplify vandal-fighting if we did, but I've no reason to think the figures were transcribed wrongly back in 2011, we may only be facing one persistent vandal anyway, and it's a shame to lose material just because of vandalism. NebY (talk) 12:54, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's meaningful to include different perspectives on irreligion, and because of that I see no problem with using polls that ask different questions. As long as the article clearly explains what the numbers mean I think all the polls can be included. The question in the link I gave is the same as in the dead Gallup poll link, so we could simply substitute the source and the numbers there rather than removing the column. Sjö (talk) 14:41, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Somehow I'd quite missed that we were including a poll that didn't ask about irreligion; I'd simply accepted its presence. Thank you for clarifying that! As the importance of religion in one's life is quite a different matter from irreligion, and as we already have Importance of religion by country, I agree with your first suggestion, that we delete the column. Deleting columns is a terribly longwinded business in the classic editor but Visual Editor makes it very easy. NebY (talk) 18:37, 4 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree, the question fits the definition of apatheism which is included in the lede. Sjö (talk) 07:53, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
It also fits believing in the existence of a god or gods, or another belief that we call "religion", while simply not giving it much importance in one's life. Unfortunately, including that poll here does makes us think it concerns irreligion and apatheism rather than a mere lack of fervency. NebY (talk) 20:08, 5 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Well, maybe. I don't feel strongly about it and won't object if you delete it. Sjö (talk) 12:35, 7 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Talking about it with you has made me think more carefully about it. I do still think it's not really applicable and rather misleading to include it, so I'll go ahead and remove it. Thank you for the conversation and for actually saying you won't object. NebY (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

‎217.22.190.233, please explain your recent edits. Why do you remove important details? JimRenge (talk) 13:17, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I strongly support the position to keep this detailed information. Nillurcheier (talk) 15:37, 5 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Irreligion map should be update

this map is for the old data from 2006 that is about 12-13 years ago! I think the map had better change to the WIN\GIA new data. SerendiPity (talk) 08:35, 31 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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