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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 147.230.151.146 (talk) at 09:53, 23 November 2006 (→‎[[Václav Havel]]). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Welcome!

Hello, Jergen/Archive1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! 

Merovingian (t) (c) 19:31, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your colourfull welcome --jergen 20:04, 19 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You're quite welcome. --Merovingian (t) (c) 20:06, July 19, 2005 (UTC)

OA Ordeal

I noticed that you removed the Category:Scouting from Ordeal (level of OA membership). I was wondering why you did this? after all, the OA is a part of scouting. --User: ArrowmanCoder moved from User:Jergen

It's is still categorized as a scouting item, but now in the more special Category:Boy Scouts of America since it's an BSA only topic. Until yesterday most BSA items were categorized in both categories, which seemed unnecessary to me. --jergen 21:17, 21 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:List of BSA local councils and districts

Jergen, my friend, please take a look at the page for Talk:List of BSA local councils and districts and tell me what you think of the idea. As you and I are some of those that regularly work on the Scouting articles (and thank you for cleaning mine up), your ideas carry great merit. I know BSA is one of the larger organizations, but _that_ much information is too much, IMO. I welcome your thoughts, brother. Kintetsubuffalo 22:55, 22 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Talk:new articles

Hi Jergen, I really appreciate your Wikifying and the information you add to the articles, it is really good and makes them look much better than I could. I do want to let you know, "foreign" in English generally has a _very_ negative connotation, like 'virus' or 'something doesn't belong here', like some Germans would see the turk gastarbeiters, or like Americans see our illegal immigrants. That's why I included BSA and GSUSA units in "other Scouting in x country". Perhaps a better way to put it would be "International Scouting units in x country."

Also, I noticed on your "to do page" Scouting in Slovenia - split in 3 articles, I can see two, what would the third one be? Russian Association of Scouts/Navigators - split in at least 2 articles, what would the second one be? National Scout Association of Belarus - split in 4 articles, I can see three, what would the fourth one be? Gut Pfad, as always, your friend Chris Kintetsubuffalo 20:41, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I think "International Scouting units in x country" would be a good way - my dictionary doesn't mention the connotations of "foreign".
Splitting up the articles I thought of a structure like this:
  • Scouting in Country
    • Scout association A
    • Scout association B,
where the first covers all main informations like common history, overview of the most important associations and the others describe only the association. Actually Russian Association of Scouts/Navigators mixes the general informations on Scouting in Russia and on the association to a degree, that it is nearly impossible to find out what belongs where.
If we split up the articles it is also easier to categorize them - at the moment National Scout Association of Belarus should be in Category:WOSM Member Organization for the WOSM member, Category:WAGGGS Member Organization for the WAGGGS member and Category:Scouting for the non-aligned association.
Following this idea, the new article-structure would look like this:
I hope you can see the missing articles. Yours in Scouting --jergen 21:24, 27 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jergen, those are _great_ ideas, if you have enough information on the separate organizations so they would not be stubs. That is kind of why I kept them in with the larger organizations, until more information was found or available.

formatting for the Asia-Pacific Region

Also, I _really_ like your formatting for the Template:Asia-PacificScout, I like it better than the one for Eurasia region. I am proud of the Eurasia template, it was a good idea, colorful, and my first attempt at a template, but yours is better, smaller and clearer. What would you think of us making a revised Eurasia template based on your Asia-Pacific Region one, and then using that as the working pattern for the other Regions? Gut Pfad, Kintetsubuffalo 19:24, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ps-Also, what would you think about a bottom tier on the template-"countries without Scouting", including the People's Republic of China, North Korea, Laos and Myanmar?" Good night, Kintetsubuffalo 09:05, 30 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I did it, take a look at Template:EurAsiaScout. It is not as colorful, but it is more like an encyclopedia would be. As you and I are the primary ones working on these Scouting articles, it would be our choice. Which do you prefer? Kintetsubuffalo 04:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC) (ps, maybe use the small version for the country articles, and the big table for the region itself?)[reply]

I'm with your changes. The small version looks Template:EurAsiaScout clearer, I think we should use it in the articles.
When I developed Template:Asia-PacificScout, I chose first the style of Template:EurScout. But the new template was far too long - about two and a half screens. So I changed to the actual design.
I will prepare the templates for the other regions in my workshop. I think we should put them in the articles when at least half of the articles exist. YiS --jergen 09:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, Africa is now 35 articles to 19 without, time to use the template? Gut Pfad, Chris 05:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's inserted in the existing articles - see Template:AfricaScout --jergen 10:36, 17 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

217.9.49.2/deutsche wikipedia

Ahoi, da das editieren in der Deutschen Wiki z.Zt. aufgrund Deines Blocks nicht funktioniert, bitte ich auf diesem Weg, diese aufzuheben. Merke, die von Dir verhängte Sperre war selbstverständlich völlig korrekt, jedoch bin ich gerade dabei, deutsche Artikel zu editieren und en-interwiki-links zu schaffen; insoweit bitte ich aufgrund des Kollateralschadens um Aufhebung oder jeweilige Begrenzung der Sperre auf ein paar Stunden.

Die Deutsche Rentenversicherung Bund hat mehr als 25.000 Mitarbeiter, darunter natürlich auch Nachwuchskräfte, so dass alberne Edits nicht zu vermeiden sein werden. Lectonar 11:55, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Danke schön; sorry, Dich damit zu behelligen; ich denke, ich werde mal ein paar passende worte auf die Benutzer-Seite schreiben (habe das in der englische wiki auch schon getan). Cheers. Lectonar 12:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merit badge collecting

I wrote an article on Merit badge collecting, submitted it for peer review. I thought you may like to look at it and provide feedback. Thank you. Rlevse 14:27, 4 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I saw your input about not all Scouting groups have MBs. Thank you. I'll change that. What do they do that might be the equivalent of merit badges? Thanks for the feedback.70.160.188.138 00:40, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Being a German Scout, I can only describe the systems used by the different German associations.
  • Most ass. don't have merit badges or an equivalent.
  • Some have booklets, which are signed by the leaders.
  • Very few use the merit badge system.
In most German ass. there are no ranks too, but only age groups. "Courts of honour" etc. are unknown to German Scouting.
among other countries without merit badge system are:
  • Austria, only for some age groups
  • Luxembourg
  • Switzerland
  • France (partly)
  • Italy (partly)
but I think there are some more. --jergen 09:54, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm. I never knew there were so many that didn't use MBs. I know that Britain, Canada, USA, and Thailand do use MBs. So it's obviously not the same everywhere. Rlevse 12:58, 5 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have put this article Merit badge collecting (BSA) up as a Featured Article Candidate. Many improvements have been made this week. I thought may like to look at it again and if so inclined, vote on it. Thanks Rlevse 00:30, 14 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about the correct translation of merit badge into German (Verdienstabzeichen?) but in Austria (PPÖ) we do have so called Spezialabzeichen, at least in the age groups 7-10 (Wichtel und Wölflinge ~ cub scouts) and 10-13 (Guides und Späher ~ scouts). Check WiWö Spezialabzeichen or GuSp Spezialabzeichen (850 kb) on the (official) PPÖ Homepage. Aren't those comparable to merit badges? --Wirthi 15:17, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Possible Translations into German are: Leistungsabzeichen, Spezialabzeichen depending of the intention. --jergen 17:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
ok, thanks! Then 3 of 4 age groups have them, only the Ranger/Rover (aged 16-20) seem to lack them. Then only got a badge for having attended a "Wache" --Wirthi 12:11, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
So, would these Austrian badges be considered merit badges?Rlevse 13:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
I think so, but there are some differences, e.g. some are more group-oriented than the US ones. --jergen 14:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Then I'll list Austria as a country with MBs or something like MBs in my article Merit badge types (BSA). Rlevse 14:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Template Vandalism

Great job detecting and fixing the template vandal today. Can I ask which template the pervert messed with?

PS: you should upgrade your English level to advanced. Your vocabulary, spelling, and grammar are superb. Rlevse 21:33, 16 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the compliments. I didn't fix the template, but I'm used to all kinds of vandalism as an sysop on the German wikipedia, so I knew where to look after checking the history. --jergen 10:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting around the world

Hi Jergen, I had wondered if anyone else was wondering what to do with the membership and founding dates column from Scouting around the world. However, the one area it differs from List of World Organization of the Scout Movement members is in the addition of "Admits Boys/Girls". Could this somehow be added to List of World Organization of the Scout Movement members? I think it is useful information.

Personally, I think Scouting around the world is sketchy enough it should be merged back into Scouting, or the information checked and added into the individual country Scout articles.

Gut Pfad, your friend Chris 00:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Jergen, brother, Merry Christmas! I have another idea I want to run by you. If you go to the Stargate SG-1 article, there is a portal link, if you go to the Morocco article, there is a portal link, I think there are a great number now of Scouting articles of all varieties, would a portal for Scouting be a good idea? Thanks and Gut Pfad, Chris 19:41, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

The United Nations

Are you going to pitch a fit if I add this language, or a version of it back into the pages in question?

The WOSM is the non-governmental organization (NGO), that represents the Scouting movement at the United Nations. The World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts has General Consultative Status with the Economic and Social Council ECOSOC of the United Nations.
pitch a fit is aggressive language. The united nations info only belongs in the WOSM and WAGGGS individual article, not every single article dealing with WOSM or Scouting. Chris 17:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Aggressive? Hardly. My apologies to those who might have been offended. ;-) I just want to make sure that I get my language approved in advance from othr twitchy-fingered users. One in particular deleted all my contributions this morning because they didn't believe what I was writing was factual.evrik 18:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Two points first:
  1. Please avoid external links in text passages. This could be done by references.
  2. As far as I know both WOSM and WAGGGS are represented at the UN and its relevant organizations. So it is not WOSM representing the Scout movement. I feel this is a common mistake (not only concerning this aspect) made by members of WOSM-only organizations.
IMO this sentences should be inserted in World Organisation of the Scout Movement and World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts, perhaps also in Scouting (I wouldn't do this because of this being on all Scouts and Guides not only WOSM and WAGGGS). I think there should be also some more informations on http://www.scout.org/ and http://www.wagggs.org/, it would be good if you could include some more details in the articles. --jergen 18:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Oh - I'm not offended; I had to look this one up in my dictionary to find out if I'm ;-) --jergen 18:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Austrian Scouts and Girl Guides

You changed the value of scouts in Austria from about 85.000 to "more than 50.000 (according to the website)". Where do you take that value from? If you check the last paragraph of [1] you will find "85.000" members. I'm as sure as you are that those values are "slightly" exaggerated, but if you add (accoding to homepage) you have to take the value from there as well. And 85.000 is the value everybody inside the Austrian Scouts (better: PPÖ) is talking about. --Wirthi 15:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My fault - I mixed the Austrian Scouts and Girl Guides and the Swiss Guide and Scout Movement. Until last summer both associations gave 85,000 members on their homepages, but the Swiss reduced this to 50,000. I changed this on de: some times ago, and didn't check again before doing here so.
My personal opinion is that the membership numbers given by PPÖ are exaggerated at large scale; WOSM gives 10,688 Scouts and WAGGGS 10,508 Guides (as of 2003); this sums up to 21,000 members.
I'll change the value in Austrian Scouts and Girl Guides back to 85,000 and add the values of the world organizations. --jergen 08:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, thanks for your reply! That all membership numbers of all organizations worldwide are exagerations is out of doubt. For the scouts in special you have to differ between WOSM/WAGGGS membership and "active Scout in Austria" though. If you look at a scout group of a town, WOSM/WAGGGS members are only those true active scouts - meaning the scouts aged 7-20 and the active leaders. There are a lot more people active in the club though: "Parents council", the caretakesr of the scouthouse and the materials (Materialwart), curate, some senior scout leaders, senior scouts only visiting on parties or camps and many people available whenever their help is needed. If you add them to the number of WOSM/WAGGGS members you get much closer to 85.000.
Our group - and we're quite small compared to our neighbors - has 80 active scouts (reported to WOSM/WAGGGS); without doubt I can double that number with people that are active in the club but not reported to WOSM/WAGGS, so 160 people. Multiply that by 300 (number of groups in Austria) you get a number of 48.000 scouts. If you take into account that we're one of the smaller groups and add all the people active outside of groups (National and State representatives for example) I guess you get quite near to the 85.000. --Wirthi 09:35, 27 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Merit badge FAC

I have re-submitted the article Merit badge types (BSA) as a FAC. Any input you may have would be appreciated.Rlevse 13:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

You deserve this

<tr><td>{{User:Kintetsubuffalo/workshop/Template:User Scout}}</td></tr> Brother, I want to share this with you, but didn't think it would be right just to add it to your userpage without asking you. Chris 04:51, 5 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you - and please excuse me for switching it off. It just showed up on strange places on this page. --jergen 21:29, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

not a Dative?

Hi, I noticed your edit in the Hitler Youth article. It is really just a minor thing, so I thought it to be better to check back with you instead of using a revert. (edited the grammar) To make it short: IMHO the construction "of these" calls for a dative, hence "Bannen" --HBS 18:12, 13 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Concerning grammar, you are right, Bannen is the dative plural. But without the article den this sounds very unusual - even for native speakers of German.
sing.: der Bann, des Bann(e)s, dem Bann(e), den Bann
plur.: die Banne, der Banne, den Bannen, den Bannen.
But IMO of these calls for a genitive (it does so in any German translation) - I could be wrong on this, having learned my English some years ago. Also, English doesn't have all this declinations we use in German; in my opinion, most English speaking people use the nominative when mentioning German words. --jergen 21:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see your point. The nominative indeed seems to be the case to use in English. Alas, in German it would be "Von diesen Bannen, ...".
Thanks for clearing it up.--HBS 21:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scout project

Jergen: Thanks for joining our Scouting project, you'll certainly be a great help. Rlevse 00:01, 14 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jergen, check out User:Kintetsubuffalo/workshop/Gallery of Scout and Guide national emblems, and see if the idea has merit. Danke and Gut Pfad, Chris 20:41, 22 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pls see response about HJ article on project page. Rlevse 16:15, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Userboxes

Chris asked me to make regular userboxes out of the ones he has in his workshop, which you are using. To change to the Wiki userbox (which is exactly the same, but now part of Wiki proper and not his workshop), add the {{User ScoutGuide}} box to your page. There is also a {{User ScoutTrade}} one for collectors. Both are in the userbox [category]. These will add you to appropriate categories too. See my user page for an example. I also made a User Wood Badger user box.Rlevse 20:03, 15 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wandervogel

I read the article on this. It mentions several youth organizations besides Wandervogel. Would any of this, other than German Scouting, be considered German Scouting organizations?Rlevse 19:26, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Of the organizations mentioned in the article, only the Neupfadfinder were Scouts. The Wandervogel groups were a youth movement of their own. AFAIK, nearly all German Scouting organizations of the 1920s have "Pfadfinder" in their name, the only exception is the "Deutsche Freischar", a joint movement of Wandervogel and Scouts; its offspring, the Jungenschaft, is not considered as Scouting organization.
But for outsiders, most of these groups (a certain number exists until now) look the same and have an Scout-like air due to the mutual influences. --jergen 19:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Are you Austrian or German?Rlevse 19:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm German. --jergen 19:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
But this doesn't matter for your question - the Austrians were widely influenced by the German Youth Movement.
And one last thing: Bündische Jugend is a common name for all this groups, may it be Scouts, Wandervogel or Jungenschaft. --jergen 19:57, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I was just curious. Rlevse 01:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jergen, do you note, what strange things are going on at Wandervogel? What do you think? LARS 13:32, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The user is Haiduc. Jergen, please check them for accuracy and revert/change as necessary. They also don't seem NPOV to me. Rlevse 15:37, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I put it on my watchlist - after making some changes. --jergen 16:42, 30 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting Barnstarn

Did you see this proposal? Scouting Barnstarn --evrik 19:44, 24 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scout method

The Scout method article is done. It's not a word-for-word translation of your Pfadfinder Methode article, but I'm sure you'll recognize it. I've modified the RulesStandards page some too. Rlevse 00:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Sounds kind of familiar. --jergen 20:49, 26 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Austrian

Jergen: as you are our expert on this area, could you check this for accuracy and merge it into Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs..."In 1910, the first Austrian Scout group-still in existence today-was founded in Wiener Neustadt. Girl Guide groups followed in 1913. Österreichischer Pfadfinderbund (Austrian Scout Federation), founded in 1914, joined WOSM in 1922. All Scout groups were disbanded in 1938 and Scouting activities forbidden until 1945. A highlight of Austrian Scouting history was the 7th World Scout Jamboree in Bad Ischl in 1951, with 12,884 participants from 61 countries. Today, Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs (PPÖ, Austrian Scouts and Girl Guides) is the largest of the national organisations."...Thanks, Rlevse 23:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's accurate - and now, all informations (and some more) are included in Pfadfinder und Pfadfinderinnen Österreichs. --jergen 10:21, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting around the world

Jergen: read the afd talk on this and see if there's anything we can do about JiangRlevse 12:53, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed the formalities and will do the links. I hope he accepts the AfD now. --jergen 13:17, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, also see the talk on the project Todo page about the category war going on. Your comments would help. Rlevse 13:18, 28 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Girl Scouts of the USA

Jergen-the mint green color on the Girl Scouts of the USA logo that was posted on the page better than the darker one you reverted back to is better, as in color it is closer to the actual emblem. Please consider reverting it back to the lighter green. Thanks and Gut Pfad, Chris 17:23, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Something went wrong; I only wanted to change the wording back do Scouting. --jergen 20:05, 31 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandal alert

Pls see Wikipedia:Administrator_intervention_against_vandalism,as an admin you may be able to help. Rlevse 21:39, 1 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Edit war on Scouting

Brother Jergen, would you please check out the edit war on Scouting? As a German, you would know best of all why countries lose their Scouting recognition, and why they do not. Chris 01:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting anniversaries

I'm having trouble finding specific dates for the "selected anniversaries" on the portal. Here is my master archive of what I found so far: Portal:Scouting/Selected_anniversaries_archive. Do you know of any full dates that could be added? I need the day, month, and year, not just the year. Thanks. Rlevse 14:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WAGGGS cat

The activity on the WOSM Member Organization cat got me to thinking we should go ahead and rename the WAGGGS cat. I have to admit I'd always wondered by "member" and "organization" were capitalized. I'll start moving the articles over and then put the old cat up for deletion. I think this is what will end up happening on the WOSM cat too. 23:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Do as you like with the WAGGGS category; when I started it I wasn't very familiar with naming conventions on en: Concerning the WOSM category I would propose to wait until the discussion is closed and to delegate it to a automatic bot to change the 176 entries. --jergen 09:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

WOSM Cat

The WOSM cat war is over. A bot will move the 167 items left tonight. I moved about 6 items over. Rlevse 17:46, 14 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting barnstar

  • I, Rlevse, award this Scouting Barnstar to Jergen for his great contributions to Scouting related articles, especially in the area of non-English speaking countries.
    I, Rlevse, award this Scouting Barnstar to Jergen for his great contributions to Scouting related articles, especially in the area of non-English speaking countries.

Rlevse 23:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to Belarus?

Jergen, what happened, and what is now the Scout situation there? Chris 22:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The membership was terminated on March 31, 2004 [2] and [3] by the WSC. WOSM list the country now as potential member, so there must be some Scouting activities.
According to [4] the association was provisional suspended for "Non-adherence to the Constitution of the Organization and nonfunctioning as a democratic National Scout Movement" in 2002, after "Complaints (...) received from unrecognised groups within the country about the conduct of the recognised NSO", which led to a report by WOSM's Chairman of the Constitutions Committee, demanding a legitimate general assembly and an independent auditing of its accounts.
According to [5] there was also an earlier provisional suspension for non-payment of membership fees. --jergen 08:34, 16 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Violence in the Boy Scouts and Hitler Youth

Jergen: I was given a heads up on this and thought you'd like to know too, esp the part that talks about the German Scouts and Hitler Youth. Rlevse 16:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the information. I removed the whole section on German Scouting as a misinterpretation of the connections between Scouting and Hitler Youth. - And I also voted for the deletion of this essay. --jergen 08:23, 9 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Verbadn Christlicher Pfadfinderinnen und Pfadfinder

Jergen: In the title of this article, isn't Verbadn supposed to be Verband? Rlevse 10:57, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is. I tried to move the article back but mistyped. Actually I'm trying to have this deleted, but that's not as easy as on the German wikipedia. --jergen 14:43, 27 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Re:Image:Image:--UkraineGirlScout.png

Hi Jergen,
Thank you for the grape color notice. I'd don't know what I was thinking making the grapes brown. If the picture still needs some alteration I'll be glad to do it.
Nice to meet you,
Jecowa 15:37, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Scouting in Vatican City

This fellow wants to delete a whole bunch of the smaller Scouting country articles. Chris 17:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Naming debate

What do you think of the name debate on the Russian Girls article? The only really valid point made was that we do in fact have (both boy and girl) articles in English and transliteration. Rlevse 14:51, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As I understand, there seem to be somewhere some rules concerning the article names; but actually I don't know where to find them. Perhaps these rules differ from those of the German wikipedia, where most articles on "foreign objects" are listed in the original name.
I think, we shouldn't stress this topic any further, as we have a decision of the community, even if we don't like it. For the future we have to watch carefully the article naming in our project. --jergen 18:25, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I found it: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English). This says the title should use the Roman alphabet and be in its standard English form (ie, Vienna, not Wien). It also says the original spelling/alphabet should be in the first line of the article. Do you want to rename all our articles (I think you made most of them)? I'm willing to help. Rlevse 20:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't want to rename them. Most of the associations don't have a "commonly used English name", so I think we can leave the titles as they are. This accords to:
If there is no commonly used English name, use an accepted transliteration of the name in the original language. Latin-alphabet languages, like Spanish or French, should need no transliteration, but Chinese names can use Pinyin, for example.
--jergen 11:36, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
True, but talk about a loop-hole! Rlevse 11:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

GDFL

Jergen, I sure will speak to the fellow, he is a long-time friend of mine, I will try to obtain GDFL from him. Two things, I provided him much of his original information that he worked from back in 1994, and many things on his site are direct copies from the 1990 English language version of Scouting 'Round the World, so in my mind I was getting a return on the information I had given him. I certainly meant no copyright infringement or plagiarism, and I will speak to him as soon as possible. Thanks, your brother in Scouting, Chris 17:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

follow-up-I e-mailed Gregg at both addresses I have for him, and CC:d Randy Rlevse as I did not have your e-mail. I want this to be honest and never intended otherwise. Chris 19:09, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the informations; this sounds good so I hope we can use the texts. --jergen 19:43, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Jergen, I heard from my friend with the website today, please send me your e-mail address, I want you to read the whole text so you can help me with the Wiki legality stuff. Basically, he says we can use it, but there's more. Danke, Chris 02:33, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you are getting this, it is because you do or did work on Scouting articles (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting#Participants_and_primary_areas_of_interest).

As the Scouting WikiProject has been formed since early January 2006, we've had many great improvements made in this area of Wiki and I want to personally thank everyone for their help. We don't always agree on things, but we keep moving forward. YIS, Rlevse 22:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If you are getting this, it is because you do or did work on Scouting articles (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting#Participants_and_primary_areas_of_interest).

As the Scouting WikiProject has been formed since early January 2006, we've had many great improvements made in this area of Wiki and I want to personally thank everyone for their help. We don't always agree on things, but we keep moving forward. YIS, Rlevse 22:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting article work

If you are getting this, it is because you do or did work on Scouting articles (see Wikipedia:WikiProject_Scouting#Participants_and_primary_areas_of_interest).

As the Scouting WikiProject has been formed since early January 2006, we've had many great improvements made in this area of Wiki and I want to personally thank everyone for their help. We don't always agree on things, but we keep moving forward. YIS, Rlevse 22:09, 25 April 2006 (UTC)EXTRA KUDOS FOR YOU JERGEN![reply]

Scouting article Pictures

Hi Chris, thanks for the new pictures. Some of them seem distorted to me, eg Image:Sudan.jpg and Image:Spainagde.jpg. Could you try to get better versions of these? The actual pictures are a good first step, but we should try our very best, shouldn't we? YiS --jergen 10:24, 30 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I am working on it as we speak, more soon. Part of the problem is that I do not have a scanner or working computer at home, so must rely on friends. If you can point me to better selections on these, I can capture and modify them for the articles. YiS, Chris 02:12, 6 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting admin

Jergen: one of the other project members approached and strongly felt we should have a project member who is an admin. As far as I know, none of us are. Are you an admin on the German Wiki? This other member suggested you or I apply for it. I think you are a better choice than I am, so I'm asking if you'd like to apply for admin status on the English Wiki. Please let me know either way. YIS, Randy Rlevse 11:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm an admin on the German Wikipedia. But I don't want to apply for this status on the English Wikipedia because of two points:
  • Adminship takes a lot of my time in the German Wikipedia. Actually, I will start a new article only once a month. Before becoming admin I could do one or two each week.
  • Policies, rules and guidelines here are quite different from their German counterparts (and there's a lot more of them on en:), so I'd have to spent a lot of time studying those. (e.g.: Most of my Scouting articles here would be deleted on the German Wikipedia as non-notable.)
Also, I don't feel that we need an admin who is part of the project. What we need is an admin we can trust but who stands outside of the project - otherwise his/her decissions could be subjective. YiS --jergen 07:44, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I understand. I like the point about an outside admin we can trust. Do you know of such an admin on the English wikipedia? Rlevse 11:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


Scout logos

Hi Chris, I found this source today: http://www.dpsg-heisingen.de/html/mitglieder_wosm_1.php

After updating a large part of the existant images I run out of power. Do you take over? --jergen 19:52, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to take over, where did you stop? Alphabetically? Can't do it until Saturday. Chris 02:13, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I updated a large part of your recent uploads, especially the very small ones. I think you can continue with the missing badges on Gallery of Scout and Guide national emblems. --jergen 06:43, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I modified this Template:Infobox WorldScouting from an existing template which he means to use for BSA articles, for use on world articles, what do you think? Chris 01:28, 19 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jergen, each of those images (France, Norway and ZSKSS) are on that http://www.dpsg-heisingen.de/html/mitglieder_wosm_1.php website. Even outdated, and image is better than a blank file. Also, is it okay what I did with the Girl Guiding info yesterday? Chris 19:43, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Jergen, you are great, brother! The reason I added the Girl Scout info (mostly to Boy Scout stubs) was a) to bulk up the stubs, b) to provide a home for the Girl Scout info until you make an articale (because I do not have access to the information you do), and c) to show that the Scouting WikiProject is coeducational and cooperative. Chris 22:16, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Brother, I thought of one more we need, better-Scouts du Burkina Faso without text on it. Chris 06:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
If you have more material on these, you may start it. Actually, they are mentioned in Fédération Burkinabé du Scoutisme. --jergen 08:19, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, brother, what I meant was grab the crisper graphic. Thanks. Chris 19:58, 27 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Magyar Cserkészlány Szövetség

almost has enough to justify an article. Chris 03:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ps, what is the status of Girl Scouts (separate) Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Yugoslavia, Moldova, and Tajikistan?

Other language Wiki

It just struck me, I wonder how we can link to the Scouters who write the articles in their languages, like at

any ideas? They would be great sources of up-to-date information. Chris 23:39, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Eagle Scout Peer Review

I listed the Eagle Scout article for a formal peer review a few moments ago in the hope in about 2 weeks to list it as a FAC. Based on my experience with other FACs and one of my own successful FAs, I think there are two things people may object to: a) is the lead long enough? and b) are there too many lists? Please think these issues over. Thanks for all the help, Randy. YIS, Rlevse 11:46, 26 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is the wikimedia link I was directing people to: [6]

There are lots of scouting pics in Media Commons so therefore a Commons link should be there. I hope you didnt remove my photographs as well, they were scout related. WayneRay 17:18, 27 May 2006 (UTC)WayneRay[reply]

Savez Izviđača Crne Gore

Brother Jergen, now with Montenegrin independence declared yesterday, June 3, I have now been working on User:Kintetsubuffalo/workshop/Savez Izviđača Crne Gore and User:Kintetsubuffalo/workshop/Savez Izviđača Srbije. Give them a look, please. Chris 20:47, 4 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Three days in district camp and just another new European country. Comments to your work will follow tomorrow. --jergen 18:01, 5 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Brother Jergen, also check out Talk:Asociación de Scouts de Cuba-I moved it from the article itself, but it might provide some good information. Hope you had a good trip. Chris 01:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

deleted Russian Scout image

Jergen, Royboycrashfan deleted the postcard image from the article, saying "(→History of Scouting in Russia - image deleted per I7, invalid fair use tag)". The image is now gone, how do I get it back and tag it properly? Chris 01:10, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

see Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-06-08 Image:--RussianScout1914.jpg

There is no way to get the image back. Once deleted it's lost. If you want to reuse it, you should upload it anew. --jergen 09:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Damn I hate busybodies, and those who can't be bothered to warn productive Wikipedians. I no longer have access to that computer. How can someone delete images, anyway? :(
Also, with recent notes on China and Cuba, should we now list them as countries developing Scouting? Chris 01:21, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Deleting images is part of my daily routine on de: - the copyright policy there is far stricter than here. But the policy on en: is also changing to a stricter handling of images' rights. I'm not quite sure if Template:Scoutlogo meets all criterias for fair-use, most description don't mention the "fair use rational".
Cuba: we don't have any informations on recent developments there, so I wouldn't list ist as "developing".
PRC: As far as in understand (especially the Babelfish-translation of [7]) Chinese authorities don't accept any nationwide organization but may make some exceptions for more informal local clubs. And even in the case of the Hainan group I'm not quite sure it it is really Scouting. I wouldn't list the PRC as "developing" as long as we have no independent source besides the website. --jergen 09:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]
About deletion of images, okay, but knowing you, I do not believe you would delete them without at least some warning, that's all I was upset about. Chris 01:27, 13 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Categories

Thanks for your message. That's not what Wikipedia:Categorization says. It says: "Creating a category is as simple as adding a link to a category that doesn't yet exist. For instance, to create the "fluffy creatures" category, you would edit an article and enter [[Category:Fluffy creatures]] the same way as adding it to any other category. The Category:Fluffy creatures will automatically be created when the edit is saved." This is obviously at variance with your understanding. Adam 08:58, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

If those are instructions for creating a "top category" why didn't I successfully create German Resistance as a top category? In any case I don't want to create a sub-category. Adam 09:42, 10 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for fixing the category. I still have no understanding of how this system works (I could say the same thing of Wikipedia as a whole), so in future I will just ask you to do it for me. Adam 02:44, 11 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please let me know if this Weblinks are Spam or good informations about the Bomber Command? This concerns respectable information from scientific institutions in Germany!

== The German view ==

User:84.187.111.99 and User:145.254.97.88 inserted this non-specific link into about 20 articles. As far as I see it, this is no recommendation for this website. --jergen 08:37, 12 June 2006 (UTC) I think that the VL Zeitgeschichte is the main source for WW II in Germany. "The Virtual Library Contemporary History is part of the History Network at the European University Institute in Florenz. The contents of the catalogue are concentrated on the history of Germany (1890-1949). The Virtual Library History is the oldest catalog in the Internet, founded in March 1993 by Lynn Nelson at the University of Kansas, USA. Since September 1993 this catalog is part of the WWW Virtual Library. The VL Contemparary History is maintained by Ralf Blank at the Historisches Centrum Hagen, Germany." http://www.vl-zeitgeschichte.de Even if the linking a little professionally took place should the VL contemporary history under Web on the left of remain. The publishers can do finally nothing for it if people her here left. --Scholl 20:40, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


Please see Talk:Aerial bombing of cities#The German view --jergen 19:58, 12 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Help with the German edition

Do Germans not use userboxes? I want to translate this box, Template:User_wikipedia/Donor. --evrik 22:25, 5 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The German Wikipedia doesn't encourage the extensive use of userboxes, commonly accepted exceptions are the language/babel boxes and the town/state boxes. Despite of this there is a number of individual userboxes, normally stored in the user namespace of the respective user.
You will get some overview at de:Benutzer:Vorlage/Herkunftsvorlagen (places of origin), de:Benutzer:Davidshilling/Vorlagen and de:Benutzer:Libro/Liste von Benutzerbausteinen (both on nearly everything). Even if the boxes are stored in an individual user's namespace, they can be used like all templates. As far as I could see there is no German box for donors to Wikipedia.
A possible translation of the donor's userbox is:
Dieser Benutzer [[LINK|spendet für die Wikipedia]].
with LINK for foundation:Category:Wikimedia_fundraising or (better and in German) foundation:Spenden. --jergen 07:47, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give it a shot ...

de:Benutzer:Evrik/Dieser Benutzer -evrik 13:46, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I changed the wording and moved it to de:Benutzer:Evrik/Spender (Spender=donor), so its intention is clearer. --jergen 06:42, 7 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Common design for templates

Brother, you always have good ideas, what do you have in mind? --Chris 11:01, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

ps-do you know how to grab graphics from a PDF file? I need the lower one from Welcome to Guiding in the Northwest Territories and Nunavut

That was an easy one Image:Wagggs-ggc-ntnu.png. You can grab images with Acrobat reader; normal setting is text but you can switch to images. --jergen 12:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, brother, I did not have appropriate software. Next idea, since there are articles for multiple Scout associations in Germany, Denmark... what about NORS and ORYuR for Russia? Chris 17:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that's one thing I'd really like to do - unfortunately I don't understand Russian so I can't contribute much content on these organizations. But there is some hope: We will have some Russian guests (RAS/N as far as I know) at our national jamboree starting August 3rd. At least one of them should speak German and we should also have some translators (also Scouts but from a different German association).
But this may take some time; back home from the jamboree I'll move away from K-Town to Worms. --jergen 18:54, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What do you think of Scouting now? Is it GA?

Randy has done a lot to it, imho improving it enough for GA. A lot of more work needs to be done before it can be A-Class (or FA) yet, but several important steps are done. Would you please respond on Talk:Scouting? Wim van Dorst (Talk) 22:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC).[reply]

Happy holidays

Hope you're having fun, brother, we miss you! Chris 00:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Please rename the Belgian scouts article

See also Talk:Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique

Please change the name of this article to The Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium instead of giving it the French name. The national Movement in Belgium officially has 3!!! names and not just the French one. Maybe we should use the English name (since this is the English wikipedia) or rename it Scouting in Belgium. Jorgenpfhartogs 06:52, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Strong oppose: The French version of the name is the most commonly used version (also by both WOSM and WAGGGS); if you search via Google (name -wikipedia) you get these results:
french: 13.100 [8]
flemish: 45 [9]
english: 2 [10]
Question: Which is the third official name? Is there a German version? I don't think that Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium is an official version defined in the bylaws of the organization; IMO it's nothing but an translation for international visitors.
I don't think that anybody would search for these very uncommon versions of the name, but for all eventuallities they should redirect to Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique. --jergen 08:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I still very, very strongly disagree. First of all, you looked on the German google. The Belgian google gives a different picture.

French: 16.800 (but comes up with the Flemish name first (!))

[11]

Flemish: 857 (but ONLY gives you the Flemish pages)

[12]

English: 23.800!!! (AND comes up with the English version first!!!!)

[13]

Other facts:

There are more Flemish people in Belgium than Francophones and German Speakers. (58%)
There are more scouts in the Flemish organisations than in the Walloon ones.
For the FOS: The girls in Scouts en Gidsen Vlaanderen were a part of the Nederlandse Gidsenbeweging or Nederlandse gidsen (from 1957 onwards )until 1973 when Scouting Nederland was established.
For the FOS: The boys in Scouts en Gidsen Vlaanderen were a part of the Katholieke Verkenners until 1973 when Scouting Nederland was established.
The first groups in Belgium were part of the Belgian Catholic Scouts.
The non-Catholic scouts were united in the Boyscouts de Belgique.
In 1912 the Belgian Catholic Scouts became the Baden-Powell Belgian Boy Scouts.
When going to [www.scouts.be www.scouts.be] you'll see they call themselves Guides and Scouts and Belgium and The Guides and Scouts Movement of Belgium!!!


The Germanic scouts are normally seen as a part of the Walloon organisations (the Oostkantons are their own Gewest, but, with a huge influx of Walloons, is normally seen as part of the Francophone Gewest. The normally call themselves Pfadfinder Belgien. There are only a few groups in Belgium that are fully German. A few of them are part of the Flemish movement, a few of them are part of the Francophone movement and a few of them are even part of the German movement.

A lot of ignorant people that don't know Belgium think it is a French-speaking country since most Flemish speak French and most Walloons DON't speak Flemish. Brussel is supposedly a bilingual city (in Flemish territory!), but has a huge influx of Walloons. The fact is that Dutch is spoken by the 6 million people in Flanders to the north, French by the 3.5 million Walloons in the south!!!

More so: most English speakers will look for Scouting in Belgium rather than Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique. You have to be able to speak French to come up with this name and since the majority of people on wikipedia search in English I really, really strongly think we should DEMAND an English name for the article!!!!

Jorgenpfhartogs 15:58, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Jergen: as I am no expert on languages in Belguim, I support whatever you think on this one. The debate on which language to title an article in comes up often. Belguim is unique in that it has more than one language in use. Whichever isn't used should be a redirect to the other.Rlevse 16:33, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Normally I answer only once; pls see Talk:Guidisme et Scoutisme en Belgique --jergen 18:28, 19 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS)

Hi, I've seen that you requested a translation of the german wikipedia article Sangam which I created there. I also created articles for:

I can do the requested translation if you wish. But let us made a deal. The german World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts article needs your map of the world regions, the german World Organization of the Scout Movement article too. Please load it up to the Wikipedia Commons.

Please answer on my german User talk! -- User:Manuel Heinemann 09:30, 29 August 2006 (CET +1)

Hi Chris! I've complete the translation of the german wikipedia article Sangam. Please proofread it. -- Thanks! Manuel Heinemann 22:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Jergen, do you know how to upload to the Wikipedia Commons? Chris 19:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's quite the same like here - but you need a separate account on commons. Commons accepts only a limited number of licences, uploading as "fair use" is not possible. For more informations see Commons:Welcome. --jergen 06:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Vandal

Good teamwork on Scouting's vandal. I was putting warnings on his page while you were reverting!Rlevse 13:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Canada Scout Badges

I was wondering if any of you could check my edit on the page Scouts Canada Scout Badges and see if it's worth anything?

Thanks, Taykid41 16:35, 2 Sept. 2006 (UTC)

Looks good - but I can't check it's full context since my association is one of the very few who don't issue any badges. I have no experience with badge oiented Scouting. --jergen 21:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting

Check out the 21:39 02 Sep edits by Nixinator. I think they may be too US centric and would like your opinion. Edit as you feel appropiate, of course. Rlevse 22:05, 2 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was already reverted when I came upon it. --jergen 08:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yea, I saw that this am too. That means we agreed-;) Rlevse 11:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

request for help against deletionist

this guy really wants to delete my recent additions for illustration-Image:LaszlonagyU.jpg‎, Image:Laszlonagycarlgusta.jpg‎; and Image:BoyScoutsofNippon.jpg, please help me save them from him. I hate having to do this all the time. Chris 22:07, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moves

Hi Jergen, while your reason given for the move at Magyar Cserkészszövetség is arguably a good one – though the applicable policy says "with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity" –, I see no reason why Association of Hungarian Girl Guides should be at the Hungarian name. (The fact that web references use the Hungarian name is no argument: every organization's native name will be used more often than a translation.) Please set up a requested move if you think I'm wrong, but don't revert the move against the established convention. Thanks & happy editing, KissL 09:57, 5 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting tireless contributor

The Scouting Tirless Contributor

- For over one year of countless high quality contributions to Scouting articles, especially in the international area. Rlevse 02:27, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Image talk:--MongoliaScoutsuniform.jpg

Hi Jergen, would you weigh in on this discussion? Chris 22:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Translations

Jergen - I changed the title of your posting on the discussion because I think it more accurately reflects the discussion. In any case, I'm sorry if my move of the Italian page has caused you consternation.

I think that the issue is pretty straightforward and that we can resolve it amicably on the talk page. --evrik 09:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

--evrik 10:35, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I think, you did link the page on nearly all Talk pages, didn't you? --jergen 10:43, 28 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Václav Havel

Some anon added him to List of notable Scouts. How can this be when he'd have been of Scout age during the Nazi/Communist era? Or did the Czechs have something we consider Scouting during that time? Rlevse 17:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Scouting was allowed (and very active) during the Prague Spring, so Havel may have been Scout during these years (but he was in his thirties at this time). A second possibility: Some European Scout organizations name the acting head of state as honorary president.
Since I couldn't find any mention of Havel as a member of the movement, I'll remove him unless a source is given. The only hint of a possible membership I could get was a speech to the European Scout Conference, adressing the "sisters and brothers Scouts". --jergen 09:01, 23 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I'm that anonymous. WW2 was until 1945, after WW2 was scouting legal. Communist era started in 1948. After 1948 cummunists started to destroy scouting and replace it by Pionyr and SSM. So as a kid Vaclav Havel could be (and he was) in boy scout troop. He was in a part of boy scouts called "water scouts". I remember I saw it in some boyscout magazine after 1989 (it must be Junak because there weren't any other boyscout magazines) but you could find it in google. I also remember that when he was a presidnet he was some sort of "bodyguard" of czech scouts and I was on some "parade" in Prague where many scouts walked to Prague castle to see him.

Some links:

http://strediskohrozen.blog.cz/0609/seznam-slavnych-ceskych-skautu-a-skautek http://www.cin-centrum.cz/dejiny1_50.htm http://www.skauting.cz/prachen/jak_nas_vidi/slavni/slavni.html

Again me, the best is to search for václav havel chrobák, because chrobak was his nickname. Half of the links on the first page of google seems relevant.

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