Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Recursive islands and lakes

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. (non-admin closure) xinbenlv ^{Talk, Remember to "ping" me} 05:37, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Recursive islands and lakes

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~~Fails WP:N and WP:RS. "Recursive" lake or island is not a term found in journals or news. It is a Reddit trivia thing.~~ The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 11:11, 12 March 2020 (UTC) Note to closer - I'm withdrawing my nomination to delete this one. Looking at the article with its many updates and heading changes, I think it's worth keeping and I think sources will be really hard to come by. I look forward to seeing more sources and improvements--The Eloquent Peasant (talk) 15:04, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Canada-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 15:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Lightburst (talk) 15:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~ as original research, alternatively redirect to Lake island § Islands within lakes recursively. The phenomenon is interesting and has a few mentions in pop science / clickbait news, but coverage is very short and no sources present the information like this. – Thjarkur (talk) 13:52, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- See below – Thjarkur (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (merging the citations) per Þjarkur; while the assemblage of examples may be OR-ish, the phenomenon is real and citations are provided, so it would be sensible to save those at least. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:56, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Blatant OR that serves no purpose beyond Thjarkur's link, unclear why the made-up "first-order" lakes and islands needed to be listed... Irregular name does not need a redirect. Reywas92^Talk 18:15, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep--the name "recursive island" is not made up, see this (this is about islands in a marsh rather than a lake). Yet I can accept that first order/ second order, etc. terminology is not commonly used in English. People do find this phenomenon curious, see this and this. Such islands can be considered a tourist attraction: see this: "Lake Makaysee is unusual in that it has an island with two small lakes." and here "this “lake with islands, on an island in a bay” is a special place." Lastly, a better candidate for merger would be with Recursion, as the Lake islands article already has decent coverage of the topic. It would fit okay with all of the other types of recursion with their subsections.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 18:28, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The 2019 Guinness Book of World Records has a section titled "RECURSIVE LAKE ISLANDS" which lists the largest such island. The material on this topic on the Lake Islands article may have come from this source.Epiphyllumlover (talk) 18:46, 12 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Even the Guinness source doesn't go into the multiple levels of recursion that this article does. This is a clear case of WP:OR and a selective merge to Lake island sounds like a good idea. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 15:33, 15 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep-- The concept of recursive islands is mentioned many times, a quick google search of "island in a lake" come up with many results referencing to this phenomena , [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], And even sources reffering to them as "recursive islands" [7]. The recursive lakes and islands section in Lake island is ok for knowing the largest of each type of island/lake but the article Recursive islands and lakes is meant for wide scale documentation and understanding of recursive islands/lakes not a quick overview like on Lake island Just your average wikipedian (talk) 22:20, 12 March 2020 (UTC) — Note to closing admin: Just your average wikipedian (talk • contribs) is the creator of the page that is the subject of this AfD. [reply]
- I fail to see why Lake island cannot be expanded. I see virtually nothing in your article that is not already there or cannot be added with minimal impact to its size and contents. Lakes having islands being a real thing does not mean we need a separate page for your made-up orders, WP:OR commentary, and duplication of existing material. The hoax can certainly be mentioned in the main article too. Reywas92^Talk 04:44, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - hi there Reywas92, I completely understand your point of view, at its current state the article Recursive islands and lakes would seem fitting to merge with the article Lake island. But I do not believe this is the right thing to do because the article is still in its beginning stage, only 3 days old. My plan for the completed article is a wide scale documentation of recursive lakes/islands with hundreds of entries, and information relating directly to recursive lakes/islands. I have realised that better title for the article would be "List of recursive islands and lakes", And maybe discussion can be put in place later for its renaming. But because it is a list, and in its completed state, a very long list, I do not think it is appropriate to merge it with the article Lake island, as it would take up a large majority of the article. Lake island is more of an article about the types of lake islands (artificial, volcanic, ect) ,and the science/geology of lake islands, rather than a very large list of non-significant islands. If you have any changes to Recursive islands and lakes that would make you more willing to keep it as a separate article, please do mention them. kind regards Just your average wikipedian (talk) 06:51, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment--The phrase "Orders of recursion" is not made up. If you search the phrase "Orders of recursion" in Google, you get 38,000 results. If you search "third order recursive," you get 4,960 results. The orders are a mathematical concept that is implicit in the concept of recursion. My previous comment that I could not find English results discussing the orders in English was only concerning discussion of recursive lakes and islands, not other recursive phenomenon. However, it is conceivable that the phrase "Orders of recursion" is in the Guinness Book of World Records. There is a reference to the "Largest recursive island entry being in the 1992 Guinness Book of World Records. So if anyone here has a access to the Guinness Book of World Records from the last ~30 years, it would be nice if they could research this for us.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 15:57, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Guinness does use "recursive", but speaks in clear terms "X within Y" instead of "orders" (you can find the book online). I have switched the article over to these terms. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:16, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Thank you for checking, I had been unable to find it online.--Epiphyllumlover (talk) 17:35, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep – The Guinness source presented above shows that this curiosity is at least somewhat notable, I have removed the WP:OR and based the article on the way the Guinness source presents the material. However, it only lists the largest of each type, filling in more entries is difficult due to the lack of other reliable sources. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:27, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.