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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Jade Phoenix Pence (talk | contribs) at 17:38, 10 June 2020 (→‎This page should be kept for public information.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

What the

Geranoid stop for the god's sake RiriSec (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Article Relevance/Timeliness

Considering that there is already a list of Anarchic Communes on Wikipedia, and that this one has only been alive for 1 day, I'm not convinced that this topic qualifies for a separate article. I also question if the article was written by someone not directly involved in the CHAZ. Also, this article would definitely benefit from the "current events" header (ie the one that says something to the effect of "This article is about a developing event, as such details may change") but I'm not a smart enough man to know how to do that. 50.83.179.58 (talk) 02:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm from Pennsylvania, so I have no connection to the commune IRL. However, I believe that the commune article is notable and should stay. An article about a newly-founded "autonomous region of the US", which has multiple credible sources, should stay up despite how "soon" the article was written. -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk) 02:25, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mt.FijiBoiz, it remains to be seen if this has a long-term impact. These kinds of demonstrations are quite common for the area (specifically Capitol Hill). Trying to insinuate that it's official in any way without appropriate reliable sources is misleading and runs afoul of WP:GNG and WP:NPOV. SounderBruce 04:27, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
SounderBruce, It doesn't seem that the "formations" of autonomous regions is that common in Capitol Hill or anywhere in the US really. Multiple credible sources lend credence to the notability of the Zone. As for it being official, a statement about it being self-declared is probably in order. -- Mt.FijiBoiz
Mt.FijiBoiz,SounderBruce I'd err on the side of inclusion this time. The present moment doesn't feel like just another demonstration to me. The closest thing in memory is Occupy Wall Street, and the Occupy Seattle article still stands, and seems pretty good too. Groceryheist (talk) 04:58, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Groceryheist Add to the discussion on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Capitol_Hill_Autonomous_Zone if you haven't already. Thanks! -- Mt.FijiBoiz

The link https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ isn't working for me. I've tagged it as a dead link in the article, but it's been removed. I'm not going to re-add, since the pace of the article is pretty fast right now and I don't want to disrupt that. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:37, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Replaced with https://web.archive.org/web/20200609224556/https://industrialworker.org/the-birth-of-the-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/ that actually works. Stuartyeates (talk) 03:54, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It looks like the article will be re-posted later today: https://twitter.com/iww/status/1270700374505250818 --Boklm (talk) 12:56, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

C.H.A.D vs C.H.A.Z

While most sources list it as CHAZ, there is enough of a dissenting opinion and a growing opposition that has its sights on renaming it to the Capitol Hill Autonomous District. I feel that the fact that multiple people have edited the page to change it to this at least warrants the inclusion of it was an alternative name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Guy With Crocs (talk • contribs) 03:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I added "C.H.A.D." as an alternate name for the time being. If you can, please add a reference for the C.H.A.D. name. Thanks! -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk03:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I believe the movement is more aligned with CHAZ with the motive of differentiation from the already-used CHAD acronym meaning Capitol Hill Arts District. I've only seen CHAZ used so perhaps too soon to tell, but most mentions of CHAZ are in the interest of specifically disparaging the CHAD acronym, which is actually a bit derided by a subsection of Capitol Hill locals. Neonsigh (talk) 07:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The flag issue

Due to the commune not currently having a centralized leader or government, it would be difficult to pin down what flag is official and what isn't, in fact, it might be impossible.

Therefore, I propose that we just choose whatever we see circulating the most in the coming days, starting now.

The Guy With Crocs (talk) 04:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)The Guy With Crocs[reply]

  • I can assure you that someone's randomly created flag from Reddit isn't the official flag of the C.H.A.Z. We should wait to see if the commune officially adopts a flag or a certain flag becomes associated with the commune before adding one to this page. -- Mt.FijiBoiz (talk 04:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I feel like you misunderstood my point. The inherent decentralization of this communities internal structure means that it will probably be a while until ONE flag is agreed on, therefore we should instead add the one we see the MOST in order to increase this pages credibility and thoroughness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Guy With Crocs (talk • contribs) 04:24, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that'd be particularly helpful; anyone can put a flag on the net and I don't believe that the zone has an online presence of any sort... Luigi970p 💬Talk📜Contributions 04:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Adding a flag is pointless at the current time. There is no widely agreed upon flag and no organization that can state that such a flag exists. However there seems to be a consensus that the pink umbrella is the defining insignia of the zone. Rougetimelord (talk) 09:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Who just added the flag and coat of arms? I have never seen either in any of the Twitter threads I have been looking at for news on this event. I'm taking the liberty to remove the flag and coat of arms unless a citation can be found. (Update, cannot remove flag / coat of arms due to protection of the page) 108.49.158.36 (talk) 12:43, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

Add the following to the bottom of Foundation or another appropriate section: Many members quickly adopted the use of a pink umbrella as a emblem. (https://twitter.com/lindseywasson/status/1270553746691375104). This edit has previously been undone as the source has been dismissed as just "some random Twitter user(s)", despite being from a professional photographer clearly displaying the factual nature of the assertion made, and removed after being labelled "vandalism". EdepolFox (talk) 04:44, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It would be great to find a creative commons image of the umbrella emblem. Maybe tomorrow I'll go get one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Groceryheist (talk • contribs) 06:03, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Currency change -> Bitcoin

Autonomous? sovereign? CHAZ needs a symbol of anarchy and decentralization. Why USD and not Bitcoin? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PsychedelicSpartan117 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • They're not using Bitcoin, so the currency isn't listed as Bitcoin. If you think the page ought to read Bitcoin then I guess the first step would be to head up to Seattle, join the commune, and propose they switch over to BTC. 209.169.72.233 (talk) 06:07, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

Modify currency: USD for BTC, or at least add BTC.

Bitcoin is a censorship-resistant, apolitical, decentralized and sovereign form of ditital and absolutely scarce form of money PsychedelicSpartan117 (talk) 06:11, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: As above. Jack Frost (talk) 09:00, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

I live in Seattle and I can tell you this page is incorrect on many points. I request sources to each piece of information. Double check your facts. 2600:100F:B059:85EF:DB3:A24E:3ACF:1B6A (talk) 06:35, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. If you have any specific changes or corrections, then please list them (with sources). Jack Frost (talk) 09:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This page should be kept for public information.

Regardless of someone's opinion on the establishment of this anarchist community, it is fascinating to read about and the ability to read about it enables us to have a broader discussion about it. Deleting this page deprives us of the opportunity to have that discussion or even to privately research it.

Keep - Please, keep this entry intact. Dhc301 (talk) 06:55, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Seconded. Rougetimelord (talk) 09:09, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I vote in favor of deletion, so long as much of this information is incorporated into a separate page on Seattle's reaction to the George Floyd killing. The stuff about BLM taking over city hall would fit in there, too. As it stands, it's too specific, IMO. JakeDapper (talk) 09:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I third preserving this article, as it not only broadens discussion - but because deletion would be like deleting the main article for the Paris Commune because the article for the Franco-Prussian war has a section about it. PimpSugar (talk) 12:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I fourth keeping this, its pretty objective at the time being, and is a large enough event/locale to warrant a separate page The Guy With Crocs (talk) 13:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Crocs[reply]

Keep This article is of something of notability that stands separate to the other issues raised or suggestions of what it 'should' be merged into. 121.210.33.50 (talk) 14:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep AllThatJazz2012 (talk) 16:22, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is a significant historical event that will be talked about for years to come regardless of how short-lived it may be. Jade Phoenix Pence (talk) 17:38, 10 June 2020 (UTC)Jade Phoenix Pence[reply]

Sputnik (news agency)

Please be aware that Sputnik (news agency) is publishing articles related to the subject and that none of them are considered reliable sources by wikipedia, so can't be used for the purposes of supporting content in the article. Stuartyeates (talk) 10:42, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Same goes for RT. gobonobo + c 11:46, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Canary has also been deemed to not be a RS --Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 June 2020

please replace main image (depicting CHAZ territory) with the included image. The updated image corresponds with the territory currently claimed to be within the autonomous zone.

Streetmap of area surrounding Free Capitol Hill, which is labelled "CHAZ", as of 10 June, 2020.

additionally, replace reference of "six city blocks" with "approximately ten city blocks" to reflect territorial expansion. This expansion also resulted in an increase of area to 0.139 square kilometers, making the old figure of 0.036 square kilometers inaccurate.

Within the Territory section, replace the paragraph reading,

The Zone is concentrated around the East Precinct building. It stretches north to East Olive Street, east to 13th Avenue, south to East Pike, and west to Nagle Place. The southern half of Cal Anderson Park falls inside of the zone, while the northern half is contested.

with,

The Zone is centered around the East Precinct building. It stretches north to East Denny Way, east to 13th Avenue, south to East Pike, and west to Broadway. The entirety of Cal Anderson Park falls inside of the zone. ThatGamingSheep (talk) 11:52, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Can we lower the protection from extended confirmed to semi protection? There were a lot of good faith editors (including me) who have now been blocked out of being able to quickly edit the page, which is especially important for current events. I understand there was a griefing problem, but all but the saddest of trolls should be deterred by the Semi Protection. The Guy With Crocs (talk) 14:19, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sohu

Why are we relying on a Chinese source for so much of this article? Doesn't seem appropriate - surely there must be sources closer to Seattle? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Coretteket (talk • contribs) 15:30, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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