Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/1998 Football League First Division play-off Final/archive1

Nominator(s): The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, so this one really is a good 'un. Outside of the ultimate classic (I may be biased), this play-off final is stuff of legend. It has been called possibly the most exciting match ever played at the old Wembley. Three apiece after regulation time, 4–4 after extra time and then penalties. I had the luxury of watching this all unfold in a pub near Loughborough (nothing better to do with myself at that time), and I remember it almost like it was yesterday. I will work tirelessly to address any constructive comments, and as always, thanks in advance for your time. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:43, 7 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images are appropriately licensed. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:08, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 07:53, 12 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Review by Dweller

Please see comments below. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:17, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The sequence of scoring in the lead could be greatly simplified and in so doing allow a reader who doesn't recognise the names to follow the flow of the scoring. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 10:29, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well sure, what's your suggestion as it reads fine to me. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:48, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe remove the player names... with 8 goals to describe, there's an argument for it being excessive detail. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 12:18, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Well only five different ones, and certainly not excessive to mention Mendonca (for example). The lead in this article can be quite sizeable. I've added a couple shout-outs to club names to help readers follow the flow. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:34, 17 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Fair enough. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
How about some basic info about the Mexico match that was missed (friendly, presumably?) --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:23, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Dweller I've only gone and done it! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 10:44, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Oldelpaso

This is very good, I only have nitpicks.

Curbishley's assistant Les Reed left the club after the penalty shootout loss. - Win?
Gah, yes, done. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We have Mendonca saying sorry to his mates in Sunderland before we learn he is from Sunderland. This could be rejigged.
Re-ordered. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The background section does a good job, but perhaps could mention expectations at the start of the season.
I'll see what I can find. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
This gives a bit of a preview of the season. Harrias ^talk 12:40, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Harrias lovely, thanks. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:43, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Harrias (or anyone) any idea how to fix the Gale URL so it doesn't upset the {{cite web}} template? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 13:49, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Is that better? Harrias ^talk 14:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It is, thanks! The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:13, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
·Maybe a brief mention of style or tactics. Its the Football League in the 90s so maybe 4-4-2 isn't unusual enough for sources to note, but for instance Peter Reid sides were noted for knocking it long, usually onto the head of Niall Quinn. Related to this, the formation diagram is unsourced. Oldelpaso (talk) 11:55, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'll see what I can find. The 4-4-2 formations are sourced by the "Charlton scoop the jackpot" reference, not sure how you would like that presented? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers Oldelpaso, addressed the easy ones, got to find a way of looking into the other two, may be (much) more difficult. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 12:25, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oldelpaso I've added some season preview comments which Harrias kindly helped with, and some of the nuggets from Reid's autobio which you helped me with (thanks!) I've struggled on the "style"/"tactics" query, predominantly because although you're bang on about the lump it to Quinn while Phillips sniffed around for scraps, that isn't really covered in any of the contemporary reports. If you have anything pertinent and referencerable then I'd be happy to add it. Also, I'd be a touch reluctant to add that for just one of the two sides, i.e. what was Curbishley's 1998 Charlton team playing like?? The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 14:47, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Its a fair point. Curbishley was at Charlton for many years but beyond cliched stuff about being well organised I can't find much about their style in that period. I'd view it as a nice to have, not an essential. Like you say, doing it for one team not the other would be lopsided. Oldelpaso (talk) 16:21, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oldelpaso what do you reckon then, anything else, I think I've covered the above now? I liked the quote from The Times reporter saying Curbs wouldn't amount to 'owt... The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 16:42, 21 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that's everything covered, all good as far as I'm concerned. Oldelpaso (talk) 19:48, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Lee Vilenski

I may end up claiming points towards the wikicup. Hope you don't mind. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll take a look at this article, and give some comments on how it meets the FA criteria in a little while. If you fancy doing some QPQ, I have a list of items that can be looked at here. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:45, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

while the teams placed from third to sixth place in the table took part in play-off semi-finals; - considering it doesn't go anywhere, can we just say that they took part in "a playoff tournament". The fact that they started at the semi-finals isn't that important. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The clubs won their semi-finals and competed for the final place in the Premier League's 1998–99 season. - this seems a litle bit redundant. We've already mentioned what the winner gets. Perhaps mention who defeated who in the semi-final. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Winning the game was estimated to be worth between five and ten million pounds - not sure if this is a MOS:CURRENCY issue, but maybe £5-£10 million instead to avoid the lbs vs £ issue. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
twenty minutes remaining - 20 minutes? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Do we have a link for extra time? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
weak strike - "weak" has a few connotations, is there a better word to describe it for the lede to suggest it's not very powerful? - not a major point. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The 1998 play-off final is considered one of the most memorable and dramatic games played at Wembley. - by whom? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:43, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We're bolding the teams in the table, is it worth specifically mentioning this is why they were bolded? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"The Valley" is mentioned twice, maybe it's worth explicitly stating that it's Charlton's home ground, rather than simply linking? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
1987 Football League Second Division play-off Final - probably don't need to use the full name. Could just mention that they won the play-off final in 1987, then known as the Second Division. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The match was broadcast live in the UK on Sky Sports. - any idea of international broadcasting? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Could we link extra time in the body as well?Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:55, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
history of the play-offs - perhaps we should define this as "the play-offs in English football", as I'm sure this has happened in other play-offs in other countries/sports Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 19:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- That's my lot on the first pass.

Comments by WA8MTWAYC

Excellent article, TRM. I have a few points. WA8MTWAYC (talk) 18:32, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"with what the BBC described as" maybe link BBC?
"Nationwide League Player of the Year" I understand Nationwide sponsored the FL, but isn't it better/clearer to say "First Division Player of the Year" (or was he Football League POTY)?
Better to link 1996–97 FA Premier League in "a failure to score towards the end of the previous season" than in "first time of asking, having been relegated in the previous season".
Allan Johnston is overlinked in "to convert Alan Johnston's cross to score Sunderland's fifth", plus Alan > Allan.
Link Sudden death (sport) in "and take the shootout to sudden death".
Maybe mention that Les Reed left Charlton to rejoin the Football Association (FA) in "Curbishley's assistant Les Reed...".
"In 2014, the English Football League listed it first" better to drop "English" as the competition was simply known as "Football League" in 2014.