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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 95.112.9.41 (talk) at 00:12, 18 August 2020 (→‎Name order?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Place of birth

Three highly reliable Korean sources (which are still in the article as you havent removed them, so what the sources are saying is contradictory to the article's text) are citing Seoul as the PoB, only crap sources like e!online are saying Anyang because they took that from fan sites or Twitter or something, even the Korean Wikipedia is having Seoul. Find Korean sources that says "Anyang" or I will restore the edits. Kyunghyang Shinmun (sports.khan.co.kr), DongA Ilbo and JoongAng Ilbo (mnews.joins.com) are MUCH more relialbe then the sources you added Snowflake91 (talk) 14:13, 21 July 2019 (UTC).[reply]

I’d like to point out that multiple editors have left messages on your talk page regarding your article reverts, and this seems to be a repeating pattern. Sources do not have to be in Korean, they can be any language, and being Korean does not automatically make it more reliable than any other language. You asked for sources, and when they’re provided you dismiss them. I have no input on where she was born because honestly I have no interested in it, but you’re coming across quite bitey. Considering this seems to be an ongoing dispute which needs settling, I’m going to tag some editors whose usernames I remember and know edit similar articles, starting with the editor who your message is aimed at; @Apettyfer, Explicit, DanielleTH, Abdotorg, and Evaders99:. Alexanderlee (talk) 14:51, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not going to comment on any editing behavior further than the following, we can claim that Snowflake91 might be not the kindest editor and likes to press the revert button allot without adequately or clearly explaining why but Apettyfer seems absolutely convinced he is right and has not started any discussion himself (including moving the page and changing the naming around against naming convention policy) and also called Snowflake91 ignorant in the edit summary. Let's keep it just on the sourcing side for this specific article and this specific sourcing issue since that is the problem for this dispute. If anyone has problems with these editors imho they should discuss it on the relevant editors talkpage. With that out of the picture; First thing I always go for is WP:KO/RS, A list made by the community which to me seems applicable here, check what it says there then check the source if it corresponds. Is it not on there no problem, we don't have many non Korean sources on there, just use common sense, BBC, CNN, times etc. as an example are all reliable of course so in case of non Korean sources use your own best judgement. Does this mean that sources on WP:KO/RS are always better or more accurate? not at all! Infact the claim that only Korean sources should be accepted to update the place of birth is clearly not correct. But lets check this specific instance. The 3 sources currently used (as stated by Snowflake91) are all clearly on the reliable section of the list which seems pretty solid verification of the place of birth. Using Korean Wikipedia as a reference might not be the most solid argument, but it uses at least one of the same references there and one could consider that if the information was wrong on a "home" wiki it would be changed quicker than on the English version. Now it could be that these reliable sources all made a mistake so it is worth to look at the new sources provided by Apettyfer, which is this eoline link. I have to say that in my opinion this immediately raises red flags for me. While Snowflake91 might not bring it in the most kindest way this article reads like a gossip or fan article to me. "5 Things You Didn't Know About BLACKPINK's Jennie Kim"? there are plenty of sources that publish articles like these on the unreliable section of WP:KO/RS. Lets take a look at what the article states anyways. "1. Jennie was born in Anyang, on the outskirts of Seoul". That's it. All of the new information available. Not supported by anything else. Where did they get this information from? No one knows... This clearly is not a reliable source. It is fine that Apettyfer provided a new source claiming otherwise, however in my opinion the new source provided does not outweigh the present information already in the article. Unless better sources are provided I have to say that we should leave it as it currently is with the note that that we should always consider new information if more comes available. --Redalert2fan (talk) 16:19, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Anyang is also mentioned by e.g. the South China Morning Post[1] Given that it's not uncommon in Asia to name the nearest large city as your place of birth or residence, which for Anyang would be Seoul, I would say that Anyang is likely to be correct. Almond Plate (talk) 17:57, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding another reliable source, this quite opens up the debate. I would like to note that Cheongdam-dong specifically is mentioned instead of Seoul which seems more accurate than just the closest large city example (which I do agree is quite often the case). Taking a quick look at the map these 2 (Cheongdam-dong and Anyang) are very (extremely) close together, making me a bit divided on what is or can be correct. Its not that it's half a country difference. However this does make me think why would a source claim such a specific section of Seoul as Cheongdam-dong when they are going by the principle of the nearest large city? Apart from contacting YG entertainment or Jennie herself and asking precisely/exactly what her POB is this might be a hard one to decide on. If anyone has more reliable sources I think its good if they post for both sided actually, claiming Anyang, Seoul, Cheongdam-dong, Gangnam-gu or whatever else so we can get a general overview. Unless people think I'm giving undue weight to one side, I am all in for finding best option. --Redalert2fan (talk) 18:28, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Almond Plate We cannot assume that they listed the nearest large city, any more sources for Anyang? Googling "Anyang Jennie" gives only SCMP and that unreliable E! Online. Or simply leave it empty and mention only that she was born in South Korea if there are conflicting sources, but Anyang cannot be included as long as Seoul reliable sources prevails in quantity. And by the way, that first source specially lists all Seoul-born idols in the first paragraph, and then Gyeonggi-do based idols in the second (including Anyang), so it cannot be a mistake as they would then list all Anyang people as Seoul-born. Jennie is listed in the 1st paragraph, Xiyeon for example, which is from Anyang, is listed in the 2nd. Snowflake91 (talk) 18:38, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Channel Korea and the k-pop wiki also mention Anyang. That's about it (IMDb carries no weight). Almond Plate (talk) 19:21, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Of course those sources are completely unreliable, especially ANY "wiki" site. Snowflake91 (talk) 19:47, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
If you say so. With no strongly convincing source either way (like an interview or the YG Entertainment website), I suggest we just mention South-Korea. Almond Plate (talk) 20:06, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Or Seoul Capital Area, which includes both Anyang and Seoul. Snowflake91 (talk) 20:16, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, sounds fine to me. Almond Plate (talk) 20:32, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:52, 4 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 June 2020

There is inaccurate information which I would like to edit Koobibestboy (talk) 08:13, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Koobibestboy: What information is incorrect? Please state changes you want to be made to the article, along with reliable sources to support. Alex (talk) 08:15, 5 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Name order?

Isn't "Kim" Jennie's last name? She is a Korean, yet her article does not follow WP:NCKOREAN#Name_order. Is this because her first name sounds Western or is it due to the fact that she's lived in New Zealand and the Korean name convention isn't appropriate for some reason? I mean she is Korean by nationality and she only lived there for 5 years, so would her name not follow WP:NCKO? Katabatic03 talk 04:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's apparent that the western name order is her preferred name. Nearly all sources use "Jennie Kim" when not referring to her by her mononym, not "Kim Jennie" or other variants, so Wikipedia should do the same thing. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 04:51, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, okay. She prefers it that way. Katabatic03 talk 04:53, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Katabatic03's earlier statement. The perfect example for this is referring to Sandara Park. Because Jennie is Korean, the way Korean media addresses her is the primary factor, not the western media. Both were born in South Korea, resided there during their childhood then studied overseas before returning again. Only difference is, when not referring Jennie by her mononym, majority of the time she's referred as "Kim Jennie": ([2][3]) unlike Dara who is widely referred to as"Sandara Park" by the Korean media: ([4][5]). Also she never explicitly mentioned she prefers "Jennie Kim" over "Kim Jennie". In South Korea when not introducing herself by her mononym, she refers to herself as "Kim Jennie". Again referring back to the earlier example, even Dara introduces herself as "Sandara Park" in South Korea and not "Park Sandara". Suugaapio (talk) 05:55, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, this is not Korean Wikipedia, this is English Wikipedia. Personal, organization, and company names should generally be romanized according to their common usage in English sources. The fact is that nearly all English sources refer to her as "Jennie Kim", see [6], [7], [8] and [9]. If this is the naming order that nearly all reliable English sources use, then English Wikipedia will reflect that. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 06:42, 13 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The main problem here is consistency. Jisoo's page says her full name is Kim Ji-soo. That makes it very confusing. If the main criteria is whether English-language sources refer to them with their family name first or not, that's more or less an explanation. But there is no apparent reason why the sources do it differently with Jisoo and Jennie, so I still think it should be consistent. 95.112.9.41 (talk) 00:11, 18 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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