Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision

Good article push

Since I assume a vast majority of us are now working reduced hours from home, not working at all, taking online classes, etc. Is anyone interested in a group effort to push a lot of our borderline articles to GA-status (or some other goal)? I haven't had this much free time in a decade and am struggling to fill it. Anyone interested? Grk1011 (talk) 15:18, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be interested in theory, but I think what we have to consider first is creating a set of guideline or a mini-MOS of sorts. Each year, the same issues are discussed a new and many (if not most) Eurovision article editors are either not familiar with or not interested in Wikipedia's guidelines. We, as a project, should have a central reference to allow for uniformity between articles. Editors I think would be well-equipped to cooperate on this include (in no particular order) @Dummelaksen, Semsûrî, Sammyham84, Fort esc, Ætoms, Alucard 16, Avco123, Wesley Wolf, and אומנות. IceWelder [✉] 15:33, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The main page for the project theoretically has the mini-MoS outlined in the Objectives section, however I honestly just threw that together 12 years ago without much input and it hasn't been updated with wiki-wide consensus changes throughout the years. Articles like Romania in the Eurovision Song Contest and Romania 2005 would be good guides since they're recent promotions (thanks @Cartoon network freak:!). Also pinging @009988aaabbbccc and LWL12345: for inclusion. Grk1011 (talk) 16:03, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there! Thanks for the kind words, I'm probably going to nominate a lot more of Romania at Eurovision pages, since my goal is to have them all promoted (ust like all Romanian songs). "Alcohol You" and Romania at ESC 2020 are already GANs. Hoping for the best, but btw still crying about the cancellation :( All the best; Cartoon network freak (talk) 16:14, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind helping out getting some articles to GA would be a nice break in-between working on the COVID-19 related stuff. While I totally understand and I back the decision I'm still heartbroken ESC got cancelled I had a lot of favs this year. Next event to watch out for is the Olympics its in July ekkk. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 17:51, 18 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

An update on this challenge: We have 4 new Good Articles! Thank you @Cartoon network freak: and @Iaof2017:! The two of them, as well as myself and @HawkAussie: have a total of 9 more Good Article nominations pending (or currently undergoing) review. These statistics as well as some other project-related alerts can be seen on our Article Alerts tab. I understand that some of these were going to happen regardless of this "Good Article Push", but let's still try to feel like a cooperative group of editors! Thanks everyone! Grk1011 (talk) 15:38, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's awesome, Thank you too @Grk1011: for your contributions. :)--Lorik17 (talk) 15:41, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations to everyone. I'm really looking forward to finishing my Romania-in-ESC series, really wanted that for very long haha. Greets; Cartoon network freak (talk) 17:53, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Update: Since I first posted about this in mid-March, we have gone from 59 Good Articles to 88!!! That's an increase of 29 Good Articles; a 50% increase! There are currently 5 additional articles either pending review or in the process of being reviewed. Thanks to all who have taken part! Grk1011 (talk) 23:35, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats everyone! This is really an amazing push! As I mentioned in my post below I am currently working on a new draft of the Eurovision main page with the aim of getting this back to GA, and ultimately FA again, so anyone who would like to help or contribute is more than welcome! I've already received some great comments via the draft talk page, so please do keep them coming. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 09:25, 28 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Country in contest" contestants table format

Per the earlier discussion, the "country in contest" articles have been changed to be inspired by the good article Romania in the Eurovision Song Contest. I'm absolutely in favour of this as thanks to @Cartoon network freak: it's one of the best articles in the WikiProject.

However, I don't think the symbols for 1st/2nd/3rd place finishes etc. actually improve the articles. Per MOS:COLOR, colour shouldn't be the only way information is conveyed in an article, and if it is, symbols are necessary for people who use screen readers (which is why I followed Cartoon network freak's example and put symbols next to every last place finish, as that information was otherwise only conveyed with colour). The fact that a country finished 1st etc. and that the entry was withdrawn or disqualified isn't only conveyed in colour, as the placements and circumstances of withdrawal are written next to the entry. I don't think screenreaders have any use for the symbols as the readers would be able to read the number "1" or the word "withdrawn".

I apologise for unilaterally changing the articles without first discussing this. I'll also ping @Grk1011: he was the one who pointed this out to me. dummelaksen (talk) 16:18, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I now support the change to the green color with the updated key "Entry selected but did not compete", however I would prefer we not use "w" is the symbol because of the "withdrawn" word choice issues we face. There also seems to be some sorting issues with the "small text" formatting of the 2020 link. I think the "Contest canceled" is also better than just "Canceled" because I think the latter is too vague. I also think we should be updating the keys so that they do not include things not in the table. For instance if a country has never placed first, we don't need to show the color for first in the key. Grk1011 (talk) 18:24, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Agree with all of the above. I only chose "W" because I couldn't see an alternative at the time. I say we should replace the small text 2020 with an ordinary header as it's just simpler and doesn't cause the sorting issues, and the small text version doesn't add anything to the article. dummelaksen (talk) 21:08, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Light pastel colours should be used, that blue and green need to be revised. -- AxG / ✉ 22:17, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@AxG:, do you have a suggestion? Grk1011 (talk) 23:19, 22 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Colours like the below, which have been taken from ESC scoreboards to indicate 50% jury and televote or 100% jury vote, these colours decided in one of the archives here. -- AxG / ✉ 21:43, 23 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Text Text Text	Text Text Text
Text Text Text	Text Text Text

Thanks @AxG: I don't see any reason not to use the lighter colours. dummelaksen (talk) 17:40, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thanks! It looks like we can just use the pastel green then since Dummelaksen figured out an appropriate encompassing wording for the key description. Grk1011 (talk) 18:59, 24 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I support the use of the top right color, in accordance with the article about Romania. I know I have protanomaly, but surely these colors must look way too similar to other people as well. — Andreyyshore T C 00:11, 25 Mar 2020 (UTC)

I also support the use of the top right colour. It looks more appealing to the eye than the top left one. Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 05:54, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I also think #EFA4A9 would be a good replacement for the current last-place colour, #FE8080. It's already used on the ESC scoreboards like along with the pastel green and blue. dummelaksen (talk) 17:43, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Text Text Text	Text Text Text

I prefer the current last place colour (#FE8080). Aris Odi ❯❯❯ talk 07:01, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Same. It's soft enough and I have no difficulty reading the text. — Andreyyshore T C 07:10, 31 Mar 2020 (UTC)

I know this is both late and tangential, but for example boxes like these, I would suggest either changing the Text option or including a fourth one; I have "Display links to disambiguation pages in orange" enabled under Preferences > Gadgets > Appearance, so none of those boxes show a proper blue link. —⁠烏⁠Γ ^(kaw) │ 02:01, 14 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Commentators (or lack thereof), particularly regarding Israel.

Looking over pages that need general clean-up. One that strikes me as being in need of expanding and clarifying is the Israel page, at least in regards to the commentators section. There are two commentators listed pre-2018, but while the one mentioned for 1979 is credited on the year page as well (although the IBA recording on YouTube has no commentary), the commentator mentioned for 1993 was the radio commentator, and there was no TV commentator for 1993. On the other hand, for virtually every year between 1973 and 2017, there are Israeli radio commentators mentioned on the year pages that aren't mentioned at all on the Israel page. This strikes me as odd, since most country pages include both the TV and (when applicable) radio commentators for each year. Would anyone be able to get on that? I haven't been great at figuring that template out so I wouldn't necessarily be the best person for the job, but I'd be happy to at least assist.

I also wanted to gauge how much we add about contest broadcasts prior to a country joining Eurovision full-time, mostly in regards to the Central and Eastern European countries that joined in the mid-90s but a few others as well. There are some pages where pre-participation broadcasts are noted (Greece, Portugal, Turkey, North Macedonia) but it's a little inconsistent. I've done some digging and these are all the ones that haven't been noted yet on the country pages.

Albania - 2003 (TVSH)
Armenia - 2003 (Armenia TV)
Belarus - 2001 (BT)
Bulgaria - 1968 (BT), 1990 (probably BT)
Estonia - 1993 (ETV)
Greece - 1970 (EIRT)
Hungary - 1966 (RTV), 1968 (MTV), 1969 (MTV), 1978 (presumably MTV), 1986 (MTV), 1987 (MTV), 1990 (MTV1), 1992 (MTV)
Israel - 1972 (presumably IBA)
Morocco - 1966 (SNRT), 1969 (SNRT), 1978 (presumably SNRT)
Poland - 1966 (TP), 1968 (TVP), 1969 (TVP), 1970 (TVP), 1978 (presumably TVP), 1985 (TVP), 1987 (TVP), 1990 (presumably TVP), 1991 (TVP1), 1992 (TVP), 1993 (TVP)
Romania - 1966 (TVR), 1968 (TVR1), 1969 (TVR1), 1979 (Programmul 2), 1990 (presumably TVR), 1993 (TVR2)
Russia - 1993 (RTR)
San Marino - 2007 (presumably SMRTV)

Hungary and Slovakia's pre-1994 broadcasts are noted on their pages. Interestingly, there's also at least one reverse example: Iceland's page claims their first commentary was in 1970, and they aren't listed on the 1970 page. I'm excited that I finally found this community as there's a lot of stuff I'm curious about, and I'm interested in hearing people's thoughts about this.--BugsFan17 (talk) 17:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BugsFan17: Hi, and welcome to the community! I can't say I'm all that au fait with all the commentator information that exists across the various articles and how they sync up. I have noticed however that in a lot of cases these are not very well referenced, and while I personally don't question the veracity of the information I certainly believe that we should better reference these, especially for countries that did not participate. Case in point, I recently cleaned up the 1990 contest article, because while the host Helga Vlahović did mention a bunch of countries in Asia, Eastern Europe and the Americas that were broadcasting the show at the start of the show I didn't feel like these could be included in the actual commentator section as the information even related to which broadcaster was involved wasn't there.
If you are able to find reliable sources for every instance above where they broadcast the show, then definitely feel free to add this information to the relevant articles; perhaps looking back through broadcaster's archives if possible might be a good place to start? In any case always feel free to reach out if you require any help or need a second opinion with anything. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 21:52, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Italy broadcasts between 2002-2008

Do we know if GAY.tv broadcast Eurovision in Italy in any other years besides 2003? It launched the year before and it shut down in 2008, but I recall at least one page mentioning them showing it a few times before Italy's comeback. Is there any proof to this or was 2003 the only year?--BugsFan17 (talk) 19:52, 26 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@BugsFan17: I do remember seeing references to GAY.tv on a number of Eurovision articles in the past, so they very well could have done so. I don't know when or if they did show the contest however, but could be worth looking into. Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 21:54, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Operation: Back to FA

Hello fellow Eurovisionistas! I hope you're all keeping well in these strange times wherever in the world you might be.

I come to you today with a bold proposition, but one I believe to also be rather exciting. The Eurovision Song Contest main page was once a featured article, one of the best that Wikipedia had to offer, however as time has gone on this status has slipped from us. My goal is that we bring the main page back up to those heights again.

With this is mind, I have created a draft page for a new article, to allow us to start with a clean slate and to build the article from the ground up. I think our first aim should be to get the article up to GA status, and then hopefully upwards. I see this as being a bit of a slow burner, helping out whenever we have the chance, but I think it would be amazing if in 11 months time, come the 2021 grand final that this could be the daily featured article (as it had been in 2007).

Any help at all in this endeavour would be greatly welcome, so if you feel like helping out with this then feel free to get stuck in! Currently I have created the skeleton structure (subject to change) and a few things from the current article (with some slight rephrasing), so there's plenty of work to go around if you're interested in any specific aspects of the contest.

In the meantime if you have any questions or wish to volunteer then leave a message below! Thanks, Sims2aholic8 (Michael) (talk) 18:11, 25 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's a great idea! I will help out where I can! Grk1011 (talk) 23:25, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Entries in Eurovision" article consensus?

I recently noticed the "List of entries in the Eurovision Song Contest" article and was considering making some modifications, but before this I wanted to reach out to the project and see if there is consensus among project members on the fate of this article. I feel like it would need a lot of work: there are a few sections which I feel are irrelevant and out of scope (such as native/foreign language versions), but it does include some potentially useful information about the total number of songs (i.e. 500th, 1000th, 1500th songs etc.). It's a rather bulky article in my opinion and is mostly duplicating information already available on the "contest in year" articles, and beyond the official contest entries is largely unsourced, particularly the "withdrawn entries", which although in the large part are factually correct are not backed up by sources. I'm happy to work on improving this article, however I also wanted to reach out and check if there was consensus on potentially nominating for deletion, given some of the noted I mentioned previously. Happy to discuss further before making any decision and please do comment if you have any thoughts. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 13:12, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your effort. I agree, beyond the main list of entries, the article seems like a haphazard collection of trivia. I don't think the native and foreign language sections belong in the article and they'd be better suited to a fandom article, and the native language list is probably WP:OR if there's not a clear definition of what counts as a "native language" of a country. dummelaksen (talk • contribs) 13:47, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think it makes sense to have the list, though it can't be collapsed for accessibility reasons. List articles typically don't need to have much prose. I agree that the other sections are not needed. Grk1011 (talk) 17:55, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for replying. Yes I agree it's a good article to have, so I'll take a stab at modifying it somewhat. That's a good point with collapsible tables impacting usability, so I'll remove that, split the tables by decade and hopefully that will aid readers, and given I also don't think it needs to be sortable in all honesty, especially with the "colspan" headers, splitting shouldn't be an issue there. I think there is some merit to keeping in the withdrawn and the '93 and '96 failed entries, and perhaps the replaced entries as well, but I'll only keep those for which I can find reliable references. Do let me know if you have any further comments. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 19:18, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On a related note, does anyone have thoughts on the corresponding article of JESC entries? There are a couple of templates on it currently around Wikipedia:Notability and its reliance on primary sources so just wondering if anyone has any strong opinions on keeping it, especially given there are very few links to any songs or artists. Sims2aholic8 (talk) 10:44, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eurovision magic circus show

Good morning Everybody, I'm a New member of this Fantastic Project and I saw that map in Eurovision Magic Circus Show is wrong. could Someone Fix Bulgaria??? - - Esc0fans -and my 12 points go to... 11:34, 28 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]